Life of Muhammed

[Tropicana]

Anyone else watching this?

I woke up from a puss nap and stumbled across it. Just caught the part where they were talking about the veil. I have posted before that there is nothing in the Koran that requires this. It is cultural. I have told the story before and so need top repeat it. Koran has no attacks on civilians. Also I didn't know that the Kaaba pre-dates Muhammed and was also used for worship by other religions as a sacred site. The Muslims believe it dates back to Abraham.

http://muslimmatters.org/2012/11/15/ten-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-kaaba/

I guess I should have posted this in religion.

[Tropicana]

The whole thing is 3 hours. I caught just 40 minutes and I was exhausted by the end of it. I would have to watch it in 3 settings. Now I really need to find some cushy show with content for couch potatoes. Ah Love it or List it Vancouver...perfect.

[Tropicana]

Seeit deh if you want to watch and discuss it....I will try to watch one hour a week and discuss it.

[Wahalla]

at one time chrisitians use to go do the Haj along with all othr religious groups in arrabia... Karen Armstrong says it was dedicated to Halbal.....

Ptolemy mentioned it and my understanding is it may be a meteorite...

[Tropicana]

at one time chrisitians use to go do the Haj along with all othr religious groups in arrabia... Karen Armstrong says it was dedicated to Halbal.....

Ptolemy mentioned it and my understanding is it may be a meteorite...

Never heard of this. On the documentary they talked abut Hindus making Hajj.

[Tropicana]

Maybe I missunderstood...the people they showed looked Indian I think this is what they were talking about. See bold in second quote:

Later, he escorted one of his wives, Hajar, and their infant son Ishmail, to a desolate valley in Arabia and left them there, trusting in God's promise to care for them.

Hajar, concerned about feeding her young baby, began searching the surroundings for food and water. According the the Qur'an, in response to Hajar's prayers, a spring miraculously gushed forth at Ishma'il's feet to quench their thirst. Hajar climbed nearby hills searching for food and looking for caravans on the horizon. Eventually, some passing traders stopped in the valley, and asked Hajar's permission to water their camels. In time, the traders decided to settle in the little valley, and eventually the settlement grew into the city of Makkah. Abraham returned from time to time to visit, and when Ishma'il was about thirteen years old, he and Ishma'il constructed the Katbah, an empty cube-shaped building, as a place dedicated for the worship of the One God. Eventually, Makkah became an important trading post by the time of Prophet Muhammad, twenty- five hundred years later.

THE HAJJ

In commemoration of the trials of Abraham and his family in Makkah, which included Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son in response to God's command, Muslims make a pilgrimage to the sacred city at least once in their lifetime. The Hajj is one of the "five pillars" of Islam, and thus an essential part of Muslims' faith and practice.

Muslims from all over the world, including the United States, travel to Makkah (in modern- day Saudi Arabia). Before arriving in the holy city, Muslims enter a state of consecration (dedication) known as ihram, by removing their worldly dothes and donning the humble attire of pilgrims two seamless white sheets for men, and simple white dresses and scarves for women. The white garments are symbolic of human equality and unity before God, since all the pilgrims are dressed similarly. Money and status no longer are a factor for the pilgrims - the equality of each person in the eyes of God becomes paramoun

'

I didn't realize why they made Hajj.

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/hajj/adha/story_of_hajj.htm

After building the Kaaba, Abraham would come to Makkah to perform Hajj every year, and after his death, this practice was continued by his son. However, gradually with the passage of time, both the form and the goal of the Hajj rites were changed. As idolatry spread throughout Arabia, the Kaaba lost its purity and idols were placed inside it. Its walls became covered with poems and paintings, including one of Jesus and his mother Maryand. Eventually over 360 idols came to be placed around the Kaaba.

That was the part I thought was about Hindus...so scratch that.

During the Hajj period itself, the atmosphere around the sacred precincts of the Kaaba was like a circus. Men and women would go round the Kaaba naked, arguing that they should present themselves before God in the same condition they were born. Their prayer became devoid of all sincere remembrance of God and was instead reduced to a series of hand clapping, whistling and the blowing of horns. Even the Hajj call was distorted by them with the following additions: “No one is Your partner except one who is permitted by you. You are his Master and the Master of what he possesses.”
Sacrifices were also made in the name of God. However, the blood of the sacrificed animals was poured onto the walls of the Kaaba and the flesh was hung from pillars around the Kaaba, in the belief that God demanded the flesh and blood of these animals.
Singing, drinking, adultery and other acts of immorality was rife amongst the pilgrims and the poetry competitions, which were held, were a major part of the whole Hajj event. In these competitions, poets would praise the bravery and splendor of their own tribesmen and tell exaggerated tales of the cowardice and miserliness of other tribes. Competitions in generosity were also staged where the chief of each tribe would set up huge cauldrons and feed the pilgrims, only so that they could become well-known for their extreme generosity.
Thus the people had totally abandoned the teachings of their forefather and leader Abraham. The House that he had made pure for the worship of God alone, had been totally desecrated by the pagans and the rites which he had established were completely distorted by them. This sad state of affairs continued for nearly two and a half thousand years. But then after this long period, the time came for the supplication of Abraham to be answered:
“Our Lord! Send amongst them a Messenger of their own, who shall recite unto them your verses and instruct them in the book and the Wisdom and sanctify them. Verily you are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.” (Quran 2:129)
Sure enough, a man by the name of Muhammad ibn ‘Abdullaah, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, was born in the very city that Abraham had made this supplication centuries earlier. For twenty-three years, the Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, spread the message of monotheism - the same message that Abraham and all the other Prophets came with - and established the law of God upon the land. He expended every effort into making the word of God supreme and his victory over falsehood culminated in the smashing of the idols inside the Kaaba which once again became the universal centre for the worshippers of the one True God.

http://www.ediscoverislam.com/The-religion-of-Islam/A-History-of-the-Hajj

[Wahalla]

Since u r obssed with the internet as proof. I did not mention that a Hindoo with the unlikely name of Singh told me that the Kaballa was a holy site mentioned in early Sanskrit sources. After all theme the kind of company I keep. He made a comment that Islam is mo re sensitive as to its roots and deny like Christians any part that non abrahamic religions have it its evolution.

But since u found sources it must be true. After all that guru evidence is only anecdotal.

Given the Hindu morality is more complex, like all pre judeochristian belief systems. I mean the images in some hindu temples would make a Christian blush. The idea of dancing sex and drugs rituals has a role in a lot of ancient religions. And there is a echo of this in the idea of Karnevale heroism drug use excess.

However given that the prophet peace be on his name, calls for tolerance toward Christians and Jews but not toward hindos.it has been postulated he did not know of them. By it given that he a was amechannt in Arabia that seems unlikely.

But then I think I got the last comment from Karen Armstrong.

Hellcvthems the kind of conversations I have while drinking whiskey.

[Tropicana]

I did not mention that a Hindoo with the unlikely name of Singh told me

And I did not tell you that a Muslim named Tamer told me that the Hajj is not the great leveller it is supposed to be as people stay in different categories of accommodations from luxury hotels to tents for those who are poor.

Whoopee doo who cares?

Since u r obssed with the internet as proof.

Wahalla for the last time and let me post this in big letter for you as you definitely have trouble seeing. I have said this before MANY times and this is the last time I am saying this.


I am not obsessed with the internet as proof. This is an on-line forum last time I checked. Information from the Internet is the easiest to share if one is having an on-line discussion.

I am not going to get in the car drive all the way down, go to the library, find books, scan them or transcribe them by hand to amuse you. I have much more to do with my time.

I am not even going to scan content from the books I have here as it would be next to impossible to read the text. It would be far too small. Definitely I am not going to spend time transcribing them either. I simply do not have the time. (I don't have a sugar daddy supporting me so I have work to earn my keep and cannot devote hours on end to such an exercise.)

I see little point in posting links to abstracts for documents to which on one on here has access as you are in the habit of doing.

If something is available and accessible on the Internet, I will share it. If you do not appreciate the content I post no one is compelling you to read it.