ar islam and christianity evil religions?

[blugiant]

inspired by franster clash aff civilieszation tredd

a latt evil has been done by adherrants aff dese two religions in the name of these two religions. imagine chatting bout peace and using dese religions fe wage wars by arguing dat peace can onlee cum thru orders aff connquests.

so wat oonnoo think ar islam and christianity evil religions?

[franksterr]

Both Monotheistic and Organized religions tend to practice violence as a means of Control and to Proselytize. In that sense there is no denying that these religions have the potential of doing much of what is considered evil. They also have the potential of doing much good.

In the case of Christianity there is no denying that its original message (from Christ) was one of healing, peace, and liberty for all. Yes it can be said Christ recommend acts of violence at times but his overall life work was one of non violence.

In the case of Islam there is no excusing the fact that its original Leader was for all intents and purpose a Warrior.
As in the case of Islam so is the situation with Judaism.

[My Looh]

I can't speak to islam, but as far as Christianity is concerned, yes, it could be described as "evil". What else would you call a cult that brainwashes and controls people by preaching love and pray for your enemy, turn the other cheek and let him treat you like shyte because your reward is in heaven after you die.

I would put more trust in a used car salesman than I would a preacher man.

[j-can]

In the case of Christianity there is no denying that its original message (from Christ) was one of healing, peace, and liberty for all. Yes it can be said Christ recommend acts of violence at times but his overall life work was one of non violence.

You speak of Christ like there was any evidence that he even existed?

[franksterr]

You speak of Christ like there was any evidence that he even existed?

When it comes to historical figures, whether they existed or not depends on what you accept as evidence.
By Christ I mean the personality we refer to commonly as Jesus Christ.
Yes there is sufficient evidence to believe that He existed, of course one must also understand that a lot of myth and legends has grown up around his actual life.

Did our National Hero Queen Nanny really exist?
Did she really catch British bullets with her buttocks?

[j-can]

[QUOTE

Yes there is sufficient evidence to believe that He existed, of course one must also understand that a lot of myth and legends has grown up around his actual life.
/QUOTE]
and what are those sufficient evidence...could you be so kind and list 1 or 2 of them?

[franksterr]

[QUOTE

Yes there is sufficient evidence to believe that He existed, of course one must also understand that a lot of myth and legends has grown up around his actual life.
/QUOTE]
and what are those sufficient evidence...could you be so kind and list 1 or 2 of them?

Because I do not know what you accept as evidence, I will give you one that I believe is as credible as any other.




The Annals

By Tacitus

Written 109 A.C.E.

Translated by Alfred John Church and William Jackson Brodribb

Table of Contents Book XV

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea,
http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.11.xv.html

[j-can]

How is this credible evidence of Jesus existence?...written over a hundred years after he was supposedly here....

[franksterr]

How is this credible evidence of Jesus existence?...written over a hundred years after he was supposedly here....

Because the Man was a professional historian, who was born less than 30 yrs after the death of Christ and would therefore have access to credible and reliable sources of information on Christ.
So yes to me he is a source of very credible information.

[j-can]

Because the Man was a professional historian, who was born less than 30 yrs after the death of Christ and would therefore have access to credible and reliable sources of information on Christ.
So yes to me he is a source of very credible information.

There were many professional historians in the area at the time and not one of them mentioned him....
credible evidence to me is is an eyewitness a statue a drawing in a cave a letter written by this Godman not hearsays written a hundred years later

[franksterr]

There were many professional historians in the area at the time and not one of them mentioned him....

I just provided one that mentioned him, so that statement above is incorrect
Here is another

GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLUS (69 - 130 A.D.)
Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Another form of Christus; see Tert. Apol. 3 (at the end). It is uncertain whether Suetonius is guilty of an error in chronology or is referring to some Jew of that name. The former seems probable because of the absence of "quodam". Tacitus, Ann. 15.44, uses the correct form, Christus, and states that he was executed in the reign of Tiberius], he expelled them from Rome.
http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/suet-claudius-rolfe.asp

http://www.tyrannus.com/pliny_let.html

credible evidence to me is is an eyewitness a statue a drawing in a cave a letter written by this Godman not hearsays written a hundred years later

Is there any writings by Queen Nanny of the maroons???? or ancient cave drawing???
In the case of Jesus their may just be....but alas it is yet to be discovered.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/lbob/lbob09.htm

http://www.thenazareneway.com/ossuary_of_james.htm

but we do have catacombs with many depictions of Christ, bear in mind that it was against Jewish and early Christian belief to make "Graven Images" of things consider holy.

[j-can]

[QUOTE=franksterr;860963]I just provided one that mentioned him, so that statement above is incorrect
Here is another/QUOTE]
I meant the actually time of Jesus in the holy land not a hundred years later in Rome

In the final analysis there is no evidence that the biblical character called "Jesus Christ" ever existed.
"No sculptures, no drawings, no markings in stone, nothing written in his own hand; and no letters, no commentaries, indeed no authentic documents written by his Jewish and Gentile contemporaries, Justice of Tiberius, Philo, Josephus, Seneca, Petronius Arbiter, Pliny the Elder, et al., to lend credence to his historicity."

[j-can]

Christ and the Gospels

...There is no mention of Jesus in contemporary literature, either Jewish or Pagan. Authentic history is absolutely silent as to such a personality. The only record of his supposed life on earth is found in the Gospels of the New Testament, in certain epistles ascribed to Paul, in certain statements by the earliest "Fathers" of the Christian church, in certain legends contained in the miscellaneous portions of the Jewish Talmud, and in a very few allusions by Pagan writers. But not one of these sources is contemporary with the career of Jesus....

Christians are taught that the four Gospels were written by the four disciples, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, whereas those compositions were not known to the early Christians nearly two hundred years after the supposed events which they record.

If those disciples ever really existed they were certainly not alive at that time,
and there is no proof that they left any writings....

Recent discoveries seem to confirm the suggestion that nascent Christianity took is rise from the ferment of Oriental and Grecian ideas then beginning to be mingled with Jewish beliefs through the rapidly increasing intercourse between the far East and the shores of the Mediterranean, the intellectual impulse of which movement centered at Alexandria and spread as far as Rome....
Doctrine of Divine Paternity

Every year, at Christmas, this fable [of Immaculate Conception] is dinned into the ears of the Christian world...
But, nowadays, both clergy and laity must know that the same distinction has been claimed for many persons, mythical and real; that the oldest religions are based upon exactly such an ORIGIN; that the deified founders of Oriental faiths were begotten by a god and conceived by a virgin ...
Other Virgin-Born Saviors

Although there were so many examples of supernatural birth to serve as a pattern for the fable of Jesus, still various circumstances in the story of his life seem to suggest particular instances as the chief sources of the imaginary details.
These instances are Krishna, Mithra, and Buddha....
The Magi belong to the story of Mithra, a deity of the ancient Persians, ORIGINALLY a personification of the sun.
He was said to have been born of a virgin in a cave, on the twenty-fifth of December, an allegorical representation of the emergence of the sun from the darkness of the winter solstice. At the period of the composition of the Gospels the cult of Mithra was familiar to the Western nations, and had long been established in Rome.
The Roman catacombs contained a picture of the Virgin seated holding the infant Mithra on her lap, and before them three men in Persian dress are kneeling and offering GIFTS.
The Massacre of the Innocents is taken from the story of Krishna, the favorite deity of India, the eighth incarnation of Vishnu, and also a personification of the sun....
The introduction of the shepherds by Luke is also a reminiscence of Krishna. Immediately after Devaki, the sacred mother, had given birth to Krishna, her husband, Vasudeva, carried away the infant to a friendly shepherd named Nanda, whose wife, Yacoda, had just been delivered of a daughter, and the children were exchanged. Nanda and his wife were at that time in a village near Madura, whither they had gone to pay their taxes...
Vasudeva, on his way to them with the newborn Krishna, was obliged to cross a deep river, but the water was miraculously restrained so that it did not reach above his ankles, a legend which suggests the story of St. Christopher ["Christ-bearer"] carrying the Christ-child through the flood. The errand of Nanda and his wife serves to explain Luke's assertion respecting the object of the journey of Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, which is contradicted by historical fact....
Nanda and his wife carried the infant Krishna home with them, and he grew up among the shepherds. Luke's ACCOUNT of the appearance to the shepherds of the angel and the heavenly host with their rapturous hymns of praise is also a reminiscence of Krishna, at whose birth there was great joy in heaven; flowers were thrown down to earth, and celestial music greeted the Incarnated One....
The character of these stories shows that they were older than the Christ-myth, and of native ORIGIN, whereas the Christian version betrays foreign and anachronistic features at every point....
The choice of the Redeemer's birth-place can be traced to the same source. Luke mentions a stable as the refuge of the Virgin, and manger as the cradle of the new-born infant. There are pictures of Krishna lying in a manger surrounded by shepherds and shepherdesses, oxen and asses. But other early writers, including several of the Fathers, decided upon a cave as the true place, a decision exactly in accordance with the legend of Mithra, of a virgin, in a cave, on the 25^th of December, symbolizing the renewed birth of the sun after the winter solstice

[franksterr]

[QUOTE=j-can;860990]

I just provided one that mentioned him, so that statement above is incorrect
Here is another/QUOTE]
I meant the actually time of Jesus in the holy land not a hundred years later in Rome

In the final analysis there is no evidence that the biblical character called "Jesus Christ" ever existed.
"No sculptures, no drawings, no markings in stone, nothing written in his own hand; and no letters, no commentaries, indeed no authentic documents written by his Jewish and Gentile contemporaries, Justice of Tiberius, Philo, Josephus, Seneca, Petronius Arbiter, Pliny the Elder, et al., to lend credence to his historicity."

It is for the following reasons I believe Jesus The Christ existed.......


Tacitus existed at around the same time as Jesus not his contemporary but certainly not a hundred yrs after.
Rome was the colonial power at the time so a lot of the information regarding that time is in Roman history.

Tacitus is as authentic as they come.

You mention Josephus, well he made mention of Jesus Christ on two occassion one is disputed and the other is not.
Here is a Quote from Josephus antiquities 20.9.1

"But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, (23) who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done;"
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/ant-20.htm


About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared. - Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63 (Based on the translation of Louis H. Feldman, The Loeb Classical Library.
http://reluctant-messenger.com/josephus.htm

[franksterr]

Christ and the Gospels

...There is no mention of Jesus in contemporary literature, either Jewish or Pagan. Authentic history is absolutely silent as to such a personality. The only record of his supposed life on earth is found in the Gospels of the New Testament, in certain epistles ascribed to Paul, in certain statements by the earliest "Fathers" of the Christian church, in certain legends contained in the miscellaneous portions of the Jewish Talmud, and in a very few allusions by Pagan writers. But not one of these sources is contemporary with the career of Jesus....

That is true......but less than 70 yrs after his death there was much mention of him and his life work and beliefs.
As time goes on more and more evidence surfaces to prove his existence.

Christians are taught that the four Gospels were written by the four disciples, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, whereas those compositions were not known to the early Christians nearly two hundred years after the supposed events which they record.

That maybe true but to me that does not prove or disprove the existence of Jesus Christ

Rastafari has been around for almost a hundred yrs and there is now only one book that can be call a Rasta holy book.
When Howell was alive no prominent historian wrote about him till after his death or the advent of Bob

If those disciples ever really existed they were certainly not alive at that time,
and there is no proof that they left any writings....

Again this does little to prove or disprove the existence of Jesus......
Coming back to the founders Rasta Howell, Hibbert , Hinds and Dunkley left little if any writing.

Recent discoveries seem to confirm the suggestion that nascent Christianity took is rise from the ferment of Oriental and Grecian ideas then beginning to be mingled with Jewish beliefs through the rapidly increasing intercourse between the far East and the shores of the Mediterranean, the intellectual impulse of which movement centered at Alexandria and spread as far as Rome....

Doctrine of Divine Paternity

Every year, at Christmas, this fable [of Immaculate Conception] is dinned into the ears of the Christian world...
But, nowadays, both clergy and laity must know that the same distinction has been claimed for many persons, mythical and real; that the oldest religions are based upon exactly such an ORIGIN; that the deified founders of Oriental faiths were begotten by a god and conceived by a virgin ...
Other Virgin-Born Saviors

Although there were so many examples of supernatural birth to serve as a pattern for the fable of Jesus, still various circumstances in the story of his life seem to suggest particular instances as the chief sources of the imaginary details.
These instances are Krishna, Mithra, and Buddha....
The Magi belong to the story of Mithra, a deity of the ancient Persians, ORIGINALLY a personification of the sun.
He was said to have been born of a virgin in a cave, on the twenty-fifth of December, an allegorical representation of the emergence of the sun from the darkness of the winter solstice. At the period of the composition of the Gospels the cult of Mithra was familiar to the Western nations, and had long been established in Rome.
The Roman catacombs contained a picture of the Virgin seated holding the infant Mithra on her lap, and before them three men in Persian dress are kneeling and offering GIFTS.
The Massacre of the Innocents is taken from the story of Krishna, the favorite deity of India, the eighth incarnation of Vishnu, and also a personification of the sun....
The introduction of the shepherds by Luke is also a reminiscence of Krishna. Immediately after Devaki, the sacred mother, had given birth to Krishna, her husband, Vasudeva, carried away the infant to a friendly shepherd named Nanda, whose wife, Yacoda, had just been delivered of a daughter, and the children were exchanged. Nanda and his wife were at that time in a village near Madura, whither they had gone to pay their taxes...
Vasudeva, on his way to them with the newborn Krishna, was obliged to cross a deep river, but the water was miraculously restrained so that it did not reach above his ankles, a legend which suggests the story of St. Christopher ["Christ-bearer"] carrying the Christ-child through the flood. The errand of Nanda and his wife serves to explain Luke's assertion respecting the object of the journey of Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, which is contradicted by historical fact....
Nanda and his wife carried the infant Krishna home with them, and he grew up among the shepherds. Luke's ACCOUNT of the appearance to the shepherds of the angel and the heavenly host with their rapturous hymns of praise is also a reminiscence of Krishna, at whose birth there was great joy in heaven; flowers were thrown down to earth, and celestial music greeted the Incarnated One....
The character of these stories shows that they were older than the Christ-myth, and of native ORIGIN, whereas the Christian version betrays foreign and anachronistic features at every point....
The choice of the Redeemer's birth-place can be traced to the same source. Luke mentions a stable as the refuge of the Virgin, and manger as the cradle of the new-born infant. There are pictures of Krishna lying in a manger surrounded by shepherds and shepherdesses, oxen and asses. But other early writers, including several of the Fathers, decided upon a cave as the true place, a decision exactly in accordance with the legend of Mithra, of a virgin, in a cave, on the 25^th of December, symbolizing the renewed birth of the sun after the winter solstice

The above only prove Syncretism.

I think you are mistaking me for a (westernize) Christian......I am Not
Like I said much myth and legends has grown up around Jesus Christ and his life, work, and belief system.
Just like has happen to Queen Nanny - supposedly catching bullets with her behind.