God Vs Satan

[Mutty]

Watching "God Vs Satan" on the History channel and one of the guests made this statement.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Satan is a coping mechanism for monotheists</div></div>


I've never heard it put like that before, but when you think about it, it makes perfect sense. The idea here was, the concept of a countering all evil entity to make sense of evil in the world emerged to free god from any ties to evil while at the same time, necessary to explain the age old dilemma of the problem of evil. For those who give this a minute's thought, they realize this creates even MORE problems and questions. The operative word here is 'thought,' as in critical thinking.

For the Jews of ancient times who traced ALL things, bad or good, back to god, the rise of the concept of satan as a separate, rival entity to god during their days under Persian (Zoroastrian) rule, proved, at the time, a great target to stick the problem of evil on. This could now set the stage for god to be ONLY good and perfect and without blame.

Your thoughts?

[rudemonk]

Re: God Vs Satan

it would seem from a perfunctory glance, that the old man wasn't exactly thought of in terms of omnipotence in the OT.

The OT God doesn't seem to have much problem wiping out what he doesn't like (unless you host a barbecue) so long as he can, so one sort of has to wonder why the adversary isn't just, blinked out...

well of course what you are saying makes perfect sense, and although many theists feel they have satisfactorily dealt with the logical problem of (moral) evil- and they have in the strictest sense- natural evil gives them quite a bit of agita although they seem practically incapable of seeing why lol...at the moment they revert to the genesis story they lose. you may as well invoke a magic turtle. it's *possible* we have evil because of a magic turtle, although extremely implausible. but that is the only kind of door left open to solve the problem.

[julie*mango]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The OT God doesn't seem to have much problem wiping out what he doesn't like (unless you host a barbecue) so long as he can, so one sort of has to wonder why the adversary isn't just, blinked out... </div></div>

One has to acknowledge that there are other beings besides us humans. The bible gives us reference to angels, being countless in number, more than us here on earth. God could have &quot;wiped out&quot; the adversary but he has instead opted to give him a chance to prove his case to the other angels. His case being that humans can govern themselves(be like God) and will not die. Basically saying the God is a liar.

[Mutty]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _______</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One has to acknowledge that there are other beings besides us humans. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">The bible gives us reference</span></span> to angels, being countless in number, more than us here on earth. God could have &quot;wiped out&quot; the adversary but he has instead opted to give him a chance to prove his case to the other angels. His case being that humans can govern themselves(be like God) and will not die. Basically saying the God is a liar. </div></div>

The above underlined immediately makes the rest of what you say a circular argument.

[Diplomat]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Watching &quot;God Vs Satan&quot; on the History channel and one of the guests made this statement.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Satan is a coping mechanism for monotheists</div></div>


I've never heard it put like that before, but when you think about it, it makes perfect sense. The idea here was, the concept of a countering all evil entity to make sense of evil in the world emerged to free god from any ties to evil while at the same time, necessary to explain the age old dilemma of the problem of evil. For those who give this a minute's thought, they realize this creates even MORE problems and questions. The operative word here is 'thought,' as in critical thinking.

For the Jews of ancient times who traced ALL things, bad or good, back to god, the rise of the concept of satan as a separate, rival entity to god during their days under Persian (Zoroastrian) rule, proved, at the time, a great target to stick the problem of evil on. This could now set the stage for god to be ONLY good and perfect and without blame.

Your thoughts? </div></div>
Have you read Elaine Pagel's &quot;The Origin of Satan&quot;?

[rudemonk]

Re: God Vs Satan

any excerpts CEW?

That sounds interesting.

[rudemonk]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _______</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The OT God doesn't seem to have much problem wiping out what he doesn't like (unless you host a barbecue) so long as he can, so one sort of has to wonder why the adversary isn't just, blinked out... </div></div>

One has to acknowledge that there are other beings besides us humans. The bible gives us reference to angels, being countless in number, more than us here on earth. God could have &quot;wiped out&quot; the adversary but he has instead opted to give him a chance to prove his case to the other angels. His case being that humans can govern themselves(be like God) and will not die. Basically saying the God is a liar. </div></div>

I think it is better to say that God uses the devil- as we have come to know him in the christian sense - as a foil. The guy makes God look good. God chooses what evil he can perpetrate and what he can do. This is clearly indicated in Job, is it not? In the old testament we just don't see the idea of god being omni all too much, in fact he is often in competition with other gods. Then fast forward and we have an agent of evil who is comparable to God, and a heap of malarcky about original sin and Jesus *having* to be killed- which if that were his true purpose one would think he would have spoken a lot about it.

What we are seeing here with the devil is first and foremost the wrestling match every mythological system must engage in and one they mostly solve by introduction of an opposite personification of the source of good. That is only natural psychologically- a mind trapped by dualistic interpretations has to create a reason for both moral and natural evil, and once personified, I think we can also say that Satan is a fear mechanism, a bludgeon if you will, to aid in the conversion of more. How we have gotten Satan is almost exactly the same process that resulted in Obama being called a terrorist and Palin saying &quot;he's not one of us.&quot; When you have people convicted of a certain belief before they actually think it through, they have to come up with a scapegoat, a foil, an 'other.' And it has to be impressive.

It's easy to see how we have inherited this mythological system, and these days it's relatively easy to plausibly deconstruct it as well.

[Mutty]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChurchDude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have you read Elaine Pagel's &quot;The Origin of Satan&quot;? </div></div>

No, but I know about her and her work including that one.

[Diplomat]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">any excerpts CEW?

That sounds interesting. </div></div>
It is an extremely interesting book, and I hesitate to add excerpts because to do so outside of context would be a disservice. However, there are a number of online reviews that may be worth reading. The book is inexpensive, so I would suggest grabbing a copy to read in its entirety.

[Diplomat]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChurchDude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have you read Elaine Pagel's &quot;The Origin of Satan&quot;? </div></div>
No, but I know about her and her work including that one. </div></div>
You should get a copy and read it. The quoted reference in the initial post may be a good &quot;sound bite&quot; but it is far too simplistic.

[rudemonk]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChurchDude</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">any excerpts CEW?

That sounds interesting. </div></div>
It is an extremely interesting book, and I hesitate to add excerpts because to do so outside of context would be a disservice. However, there are a number of online reviews that may be worth reading. The book is inexpensive, so I would suggest grabbing a copy to read in its entirety. </div></div>

cool, will add it to my list based on your rec. good looking out.

[rudemonk]

Re: God Vs Satan

p.s. mutty- a very good friend of mine married one of zoroaster's last living relatives.

it was a very interesting ceremony and not least of which was a deep sense of sadness which seemed to permeate the proceedings and the gathering about the culture they had lost in the Iranian revolution...

[Mutty]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">p.s. mutty- a very good friend of mine married one of zoroaster's last living relatives.

it was a very interesting ceremony and not least of which was a deep sense of sadness which seemed to permeate the proceedings and the gathering about the culture they had lost in the Iranian revolution... </div></div>

WOW! Now THAT is interesting.

[rudemonk]

Re: God Vs Satan

yeah, and it didn't hurt that she is devastatingly pretty.

[Mutty]

Re: God Vs Satan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah, and it didn't hurt that she is devastatingly pretty. </div></div>

Got pics?