Why does god allow natural disasters...?

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

Tonight on Larry King there was a man who had been trapped in a fallen building for 65 hours. He was a faith-based guy making a movie on the poverty of children in Haiti when the earthquake hit. He said that he believed that God decided that that there was more work for him to do before he died. And he thought that the prayers from his wife and friends also had saved him.

When he said that God saved him, it did seem clear to me at that moment, that God didn't save the 100K plus that have died, and that his god could have saved them if he had wanted.

[Peasie]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

You know, Forty, you bring up a good point. I've always wondered about this and, even when praying myself, question at the back of my thoughts somewhere if I am being self-centered for praying for my own very minor needs in light of so many more pressing issues.

Which reminds me of Zechariah, the fisherman character in Anthony Winkler's novel, The Painted Canoe. The fisherman was annoyed that people would pray to God for likkle insignificant things and that he, Zechariah, was not going to worry God with. While sections of the book are laugh-out loud hilarious in Winkler's typical style, there was a very serious question about this very theological thought that you brought up.

[SmoothOperator]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

I understand where Mark Wignall is coming from, but I do not agree with his conclusion. Creation is all around us and that cannot be denied so I am compelled to believe in God if only as a first mover - who got the ball rolling if nothing else. What I am wary about is this idea of an interventionist God, a God actively intervening in the 'natural order' of things because humans ask him or her to. I see little evidence for this when I look at the world - there is too much basic tragedy and personal suffering. If a hurricane comes along and your house is spared be grateful for it, yes, and even be thankful to God, but I doubt it was because of your faith and divine intervention why your house was spared, while somebody else with even greater faith loses his house. The wind simply blows where it blows and stuff happens and not everything that happens to us has a 'reasonable' explanation though we may wish it to be so.

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

You are right to enjoin others to post respectfully but the same old positions here are entrenched, there is just the rehash of old dead discussions thats why the majority of christians do not post.

The scoffers who dont accept the God of the universe create their own idols and worship them with all the devotion of ten holy men. They are neither willing to accept or even respect the truth of the gospel thats their choice I post most times for the few that may honestly want a christian viewpoint who lurk afraid to confront the possse of unbelief.
God created man with an ability to choose and gave him dominion over the earth the earth was without sin or death but man introduced sin and death and the earth was cursed.
God is not a god of the dead but of the living. The only life that God recognise is a life hid in Christ ana life that even though physical death claims us we live . that was creations plan thats the plan that ws lost in Eden that the plan that Jesus returned to us who live for him.
The rest of us are already dead just waiting for a calamity to claim us and after death there is judgement.

God does care about this life he cares that we would choose the way of life before physical death claims us as it will some day.

[Peasie]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

Funny. You're the first to be disrespectful in this thread. Thanks for your input.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

If you believe that you exist after death and the is a better place. And you know that only through death one can get there. would death be such a bad thing??
If you believe that one is improved by his experience.
and all experience is i actuality an opportunity to improve, why is a bad experience really so detested?
Now it brings us back to what do you really believe. And what is teh basis of that belief
Is it based on blind faith? or is it on logical understanding ?
I mean who will one get to heaven alive. That is if you believe in heaven.
That is for the blind faith believers.
The only person that will be baffeled by experiences are the one that never bother to understand theri relationship or the relationship with God.
They just blindly accept.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leddih</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno. Maybe God doesn't see our bodies as we do. Aren't our bodies made up of the same physical matter as our environment believers and non believers are at pains to point out? Is God as fascinated bodies as we are?

I love what my body can do for me when it's functioning properly. Does God share my fascination? Would God?

Do you give kids education, toys, etc. for your benefit or for the kids' benefit? Like I said, I dunno. I'm just putting a few thoughts into the mix.

Sticking to the kid analogy, a lot of kids think adults are cruel even while those adults think that they are doing something beneficial for those kids - a lot of times rightly so.
</div></div>

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

If the truth is deemed disrespecful then so be it

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

We toss around terms like blind faith but is faith really blind?
There's superstitious faith, the woman with an issue of blood thought that if she could just touch the hem of Jesus garment she would be healed, she reached out and touched him and in the midst of the crowd Jesus asked &quot;Who touched me&quot;?
Mathew records even his diciples were astonished because in the press of the crowd he would ask who touch him.

The woman with what some may call &quot;blind faith&quot; made a connection.
Jesus called it great faith.

The centurion a man under orders understood the power of a spoken order he told Jesus to just speak the word and his servant would be healed. We would call it blind faith Jesus called it great faith.

Faith is not blind doubt is blind faith takes courage it takes bravery to go beyond our own understanding to trust to hope in Gods word and not our own feeble reasoning faith is strong. Thats why its so rare.

God made this world beautiful and good he means for man to enjoy his days here but here is not eternal, here is temporary, God speak to the spiritual side that lives on in the believer when he is here or when he leaves here that life is eternal its not subject to the death that is the wages of sin. It takes great faith not blind faith to accept the evidence of thins not seen the substance of things hoped for.

That is the same faith that I see some ascribe to science a blind faith that this is one big cosmic accident that everthing we see is the miracle of some evolutionary numbers game that scored at every point.
Now whose faith is Blind.

[rudemonk]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmoothOperator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand where Mark Wignall is coming from, but I do not agree with his conclusion. Creation is all around us and that cannot be denied so I am compelled to believe in God if only as a first mover - who got the ball rolling if nothing else. </div></div>

I tend to recognize the point you have here that there certainly is no rational way to explain the concept of a benevolent God, who intercedes in human affairs.

Howie Mandel summed it up succinctly when relating the story of a holy roller who came to play his tv game. Every successful choice the woman proclaimed the glory of Jesus and declared that Jesus was with her, helping her.

Howie thought it a great honor that Jesus would take time away from his schedule to come on his show while things like Darfur were going on.

The bottom line is that once &quot;God&quot; becomes a claim, rational discourse gets thrown out the window.

I'd like to say one thing regarding the argument for a First Mover. That is to say, it is an absurdity. The only tenable position is to claim agnosticism.

Some experimental physics and quantum theory begin with an eternal universe that has no &quot;cause.&quot;

[rudemonk]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: accepted2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We toss around terms like blind faith but is faith really blind?
There's superstitious faith, the woman with an issue of blood thought that if she could just touch the hem of Jesus garment she would be healed, she reached out and touched him and in the midst of the crowd Jesus asked &quot;Who touched me&quot;?
Mathew records even his diciples were astonished because in the press of the crowd he would ask who touch him.

The woman with what some may call &quot;blind faith&quot; made a connection.
Jesus called it great faith.

The centurion a man under orders understood the power of a spoken order he told Jesus to just speak the word and his servant would be healed. We would call it blind faith Jesus called it great faith.

Faith is not blind doubt is blind faith takes courage it takes bravery to go beyond our own understanding to trust to hope in Gods word and not our own feeble reasoning faith is strong. Thats why its so rare.

God made this world beautiful and good he means for man to enjoy his days here but here is not eternal, here is temporary, God speak to the spiritual side that lives on in the believer when he is here or when he leaves here that life is eternal its not subject to the death that is the wages of sin. It takes great faith not blind faith to accept the evidence of thins not seen the substance of things hoped for.

That is the same faith that I see some ascribe to science a blind faith that this is one big cosmic accident that everthing we see is the miracle of some evolutionary numbers game that scored at every point.
Now whose faith is Blind.




</div></div>

dear accepted- you are so blinded. you have no evidence for anything you have just written about. that is the problem.

If God really wanted all of that for us, he could afford to be a lot clearer.

Even our meagre mortal societies recognize what is parental abandonment.

God must be held to a very high standard the more that is claimed for him.

At best, for his existence to be reconciled with observation and scientific fact- he is not omnipotent, he is not omniscient. He may be benevolent. He may be omnipotent and malevolent. The problem is the existence of evil, and Evil, succinctly stated by Epicurus.

The issue is your cookie crumbles apart at the Garden of Eden. It is GOD himself who allowed sin to enter the world, according to your tale. It was HIS creation that warped, and he let it, he knew it before hand, and he could have prevented it. This has nothing to do with 'free' will. Humans can make choices, but putting us into situations that involve an unneccessary choice to possibly cause evil is immoral and deviant, if not sadistic, to see what we will do, and to see if we will love someone. Often the analogy is made between Jesus and the Church as Bride and Groom.

I wonder out loud at which one of us would accept any such treatment from our spouse as this.

Translate this Myth into any court case in the world with the same parameters and your God would be locked up and thrown away, and you yourself would agree with the verdict.

My friend, with all due respect, you sit at table in a fine restaurant, and you are tearing off the part of the menu whereupon it is written &quot;Filet Mignon&quot; and as you eat the piece of paper bearing the word Filet Mignon, you are remarking how it is the finest steak you have ever eaten, because it says so right there in the menu.

[H_O]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

because the god that people have come to worship is a weak fictitious god.

Just as time went on, like the Egyptians who worshiped may different gods, for example:
this is Thoth-god of Knowledge
OR Ra the most important god- the sun god

[H_O]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

so my point being, as time went on, and civilizations disappear, beliefs get left behind as well.

Eventually, when our civilization crumbles, and thousands of years from now, archieoligists will be digging up artifacts of our civilizations religious antiquities and probably laugh at the god some here believe and the religious beliefs of our time.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

Blind faith is wher one accept information without any logical reason to do so. Other than because it is so.
i have faith in nothing that i don't have a logical basis or prove to be so.
That Mean it must conform to some logical principles.
For instance I can't for teh life of me understand how an intelligent person would accept the recommendation of a person or organization that if one adheres to the recommendation, the person or organization would go bankrupt.

It is illogical that any organization would invest in any facility that informs potential clients how to avoid the services it offers.
i mean it's survival is based on the amount of services it offers to those same people. .
Those who believe the recommendations of organizations such as these demonstrate blind faith to it's ultimate. .
I can't understand a person who accept that the only tool available to communicate with the entity they relies most ion, only work in ways more mysterious than logical.

[SmoothOperator]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Some experimental physics and quantum theory begin with an eternal universe that has no &quot;cause.&quot; </div></div>

I get that - however I have never found any of these theories particularly satisfying because of the incredible complexity I see in the universe.

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bottom line is that once &quot;God&quot; becomes a claim, rational discourse gets thrown out the window</div></div>

Wrong Monk that where you lie to yourself. You allow yourself to believe that some primordial soup made up of long chain protien which just happen to code themselves into a dNA strand collesed by chance and became a primitive live organism, life springing from non life something never modeled in any labortary.

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/rnamodel.html#KGDVuOTt7Ei1

You conciously believe that over time these organism became conscious beings and eventually self aware as yourself after a stunning number of chance occurences.
You dont claim to believe in the God who created this all and you believe in so doing you make his exisstence void and your imagination of your theory which cannot be proven true for to believe God exist would demand that you acknowledge his servience and his claims so you and others create your own God of fictional science.

Who is the naieve one?