Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

[neutral]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

Compray I,m a bit wrapped up now to give a detailed response,but I wanted to bring up another point that relate to the issue so I will get back at you in a little bit.

[Nunya]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

pshaw! Elton John jus a look company fi im bleedin batty...

[rudemonk]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

this is often called "Secret Mark" and is something that some early church fathers obviously knew about and discussed- again it is important to know that the "Bible" as we know it is not exactly how early christians knew it, in some cases...with dramatically different results.

from earlychristianwritings.org


Information on Secret Mark

In 1958, Morton Smith found a letter of Clement of Alexandria at the Mar Saba monastary near the city of Jerusalem. The Secret Gospel of Mark is known only from the references in this letter.

Although there has been some controversy over the letter, today it is generally agreed that the letter is authentic correspondence written by Clement. In his introduction in The Complete Gospels, Stephen Patterson notes: "The handwriting can be dated to around 1750. Smith published the letter in 1973. Early discussion of it was marred by accusations of forgery and fraud, no doubt owing in part to its controversial comments. Today, however, there is almost unanimous agreement among Clementine scholars that the letter is authentic."

Stephen Patterson gives this account of the passages noted by Clement:

The first passage is a story of how Jesus miraculously raises a young man (neaniskos) who has recently died, at the behest of his bereaved sister. According to Clement, the story was added to Mark between verses 10:34 and 10:35. The story bears a striking resemblance to the raising of Lazarus in the Gospel of John (John 11:1-44). However, since it shows none of the typical marks of Johannine redaction which so strongly color the story about Lazarus, it is unlikely that the Secret Mark story is directly dependent upon its Johannine parallel. For its part, the version of the story from Secret Mark has its own peculiarities not found in John, such as the initiation of the young man into the "mystery of God's domain." The basic story, however, probably derives from the common stock of miracle stories available to both Mark and John, or their sources.

The second fragment is extremely brief, but nonetheless interesting. First, it mentions Salome, who appears in the New Testament elsewhere only in Mark (see 15:40; 16:1). Secondly, when placed in the slot where Clement indicates it occurs in Secret Mark (between 10:46a: "Then they came to Jericho," and 10:46b: "As he was leaving Jericho...&quot it fills a well-known hole in the Markan narrative. The stop in Jericho now seems, in light of the Secret Gospel, at least a little less futile.

There is debate over the relationship between Secret Mark and canonical Mark: was Clement correct to regard Secret Mark as an expansion of canonical Mark? F. F. Bruce writes, "The 'secret' character of the additional sayings is the most obvious Gnosticizing feature. . . . [Clement and contemporaries] were willing to treat acceptable expansions as belonging to a second edition produced by Mark after his alleged coming from Rome to Alexandria, but those expansions which were manifestly Gnostic were ascribed to the school of Carpocrates." (Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament, p. 165-166) Gerd Theissen and Annette Merz state (The Historical Jesus, p. 47): "the majority of exegetes regard the Secret Gospel as a Gnostic revision of the canonical Mark composed in the second century. This is supported by an emphasis on its 'secret' character and its use in Carpocratian circles, which evidently employed it to legitimate particular liturgical customs. Merkel explains the linguistic form of the pericope as a retelling of John 11 which borrows language from all four Gospels."

On the other hand, Helmut Koester and J.D. Crossan think that canonical Mark is derived from Secret Mark by elimination of these passages. Helmut Koester writes: "It is immediately evident that this story shows many similarities with the story of the raising of Lazarus in John 11. That it is, in fact, the same story is evident in the emphasis upon the love between Jesus and the man who was raised by him (cf. John 11:3, 5, 35-36), expressed twice in the additions of Secret Mark. Both stories are also located in Bethany. But it is impossible that Secret Mark is dependent upon John 11. In its version of the story, there are no traces of the rather extensive Johannine redaction (proper names, motif of the delay of Jesus' travel, measurement of space and time, discourses of Jesus with his disciples and with Martha and Mary). As to its form, Secret Mark represents a stage of development of the story that corresponds to the source used by John. The author evidently still had access to the free tradition of stories about Jesus, or perhaps to some older written collection of miracle stories." (Ancient Christian Gospels, p. 296) Another interesting point is that Salome is named without explanation in canonical Mark 15:40, 16:1. Clement of Alexandria quotes a reference from the Secret Gospel of Mark to "his mother and Salome," which may indicate the existence of stories including Salome in pre-canonical Mark.

Then there is the question of the relationship of Secret Mark to the original Gospel of Mark: was Secret Mark the original gospel, or was Secret Mark an expansion of the original gospel of Mark? Koester believes that Secret Mark is an expansion of the original Mark, and this makes for at least three different editions of Mark: original Mark, Secret Mark, and canonical Mark. In The Other Gospels, Ron Cameron takes a position similar to the one held by Koester:

Most of all, the discovery of the Secret Gospel of Mark has made us privy to new and unparalleled information about the various editions of the Gospel of Mark, and has brought to our attention the widespread esoteric tradition among the earliest believers in Jesus. . . the canonical (or "public&quot Gospel of Mark appears to be an abridgment of the Secret Gospel of Mark. The first edition of Mark, which was written ca. 70 C.E., is no longer extant. The Secret Gospel of Mark was probably composed around the beginning of the second century, most likely in Syria. Sometime thereafter our present edition of Mark, with only vestiges of the secret tradition still visible (Mark 4:11; 9:25-27; 10:21, 32, 38-39; 12:32-34; 14:51-52), took shape.

Above we noted that Salome is mentioned in Secret Mark, and it is noteworthy that Salome is absent in the lists of women who went to the tomb in Matthew and Luke; it is possible that Matthew and Luke relied on a version of Mark without any mention of Salome. Thus, Secret Mark may be an important witness to the textual history of the Gospel of Mark.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/secretmark.html

[rudemonk]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think since the discussion is about a Bible character, referred to as the Son of God, we should look at what the Bible says about the subject. </div></div>

unfortunately this does not hold any weight. Jesus routinely flouted what &quot;the Bible&quot; had to say about a lot of things.

[britisha]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

a who some aoono tink aggugh read sum a dem sinting yah whey oonoh cut an paste...sure oonoh noh even know wha dem a seh...i remember some a oono a seh dat anniboddie whey fixated pan gayness is becozz dem innah di classit an derefore gay tuh

oono funnie noh raws...since Jesus the Christ is not God, what the xytre does it mattah hiff im gay, since him is juss like annie oddah man? Ooonoh noh si it futile fi even goh deh...*YAWNN!!!***


A rational haawgument oonoh a look outtah foo foo haawgument....YYAAWWN agen....tickyah..

[neutral]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

LOl ! britisha yu no easy,mi love yu like cook food still,but it must be the jamaican in me,I do love a little banter now and again.

[neutral]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, because the discussion is about Bible Jesus Christ, here is what the Bible says about Him in Hebrews 4:15, &quot;For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—<span style="font-weight: bold">yet was without sin</span>.&quot;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality.

<span style="font-weight: bold">However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other.</span> All sin is offensive to God. <span style="font-weight: bold">Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God.</span> According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).

Source </div></div>

Compray,those are very impressive scriptures you quoted in defense of christianity`s intolerance towards gays,however,the bible says quite a lot on many issues,most of which if adhered to today,would land you in prison doing a very long sentence,so quoting bible verses in defense of anything in todays societies seems to me to be a bit redundant.
Following the scriptures in some cases has almost painted the majority of christians in a corner,it would appear the option to chose between what is right or wrong has been taken away in favour of someone else`s interpretation of what is right or wrong.
My take on the issue is this,..and it is what has made it possible for me to accept gay people for what they are,I simply believe they were born that way,..and that is that.

You quote scriptures to back up your intolerance,however,there are also other scriptures that you overlooked..,..galatians3:28 says...&quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus</span>&quot;

&quot;<span style="font-weight: bold"> All Have Sinned and Fall Short of the Glory of God

Romans 3:23</span>&quot;..which suggests to me that no one can escape from sinning,which would also support parts of the above article that suggests that all sins are sins and none are more greater than other.

But the bible also goes on to say this.....&quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">John 11:26
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die</span>&quot;

So there we have it,...another conundrum for christians,because this passage suggests to me that homosexuals are welcome as long as they believe in him.

[Compry]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

Silly me, I thought this thread of was about you accusing Jesus Christ of being a homosexual and not about who was tolerant or not of the practice.

[neutral]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Silly me, I thought this thread of was about you accusing Jesus Christ of being a homosexual and not about who was tolerant or not of the practice. </div></div>

Well silly me also for responding to what YOU yourself posted.

[neutral]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

By the way,I wasnt accusing jesus of anything compray,I am not really bothered whether he loved the corn hole or was a rampant gyallist,..I came across the article about elton john whilst reading the sun newspaper and thought I would put it on here,.....then my curiosity peaked,...and I delved a bit more into the subject,...seems even jesus himself delved a bit into his subjects,...if you know what I mean.

[Compry]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

Yeah.

Natral, your post is about Jesus Christ of the Bible. If you're going to accuse Him of being a homosexual, naturally you need to see what the Bible, says about Him and homosexuality.

My posts had nothing to do with me being tolerant or not.

[neutral]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah.

Natral, your post is about Jesus Christ of the Bible. If you're going to accuse Him of being a homosexual, naturally you need to see what the Bible, says about Him and homosexuality.

My posts had nothing to do with me being tolerant or not.
</div></div>

Again I say I accused no one of anything,I also KNOW what the bible says about jesus christ and homosexuality,..I think I know just as much,if not more,about the bible than you do,although I dont know what all this has to do with the issue,...I merely responded to what YOU wrote.

Dont know about your post not having had anything to do with you being intolerant, you wrote from a position of intolerance,you dont tolerate gays based on your faith,your responses regarding the issue is based on your intolerance and your prejudices based on your faith,..and you posted a swathe of biblical passages to support YOUR position which is one of prejudice.
You are unable to analyse or discuss any suggestion or evidence that your jesus christ of the bible may or may not have been a homosexual,what you are prepared to do is repeat parrot fashion, passages in the bible that supports your already imbued position based on your blind faith.

Madam if you`re going to pursue the issue at least be honest,dont beat around the bush with your dam semantics.

[Compry]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

I responded with what the Bible says about Jesus and homosexuality, no personal opinion. If the Bible support homosexuality and provided evidence of Jesus being a homosexual, then that's the response you would have received.

[neutral]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I responded with<span style="font-weight: bold"> what the Bible says</span> about Jesus and homosexuality, no personal opinion. If the Bible support homosexuality and <span style="font-weight: bold">provided evidence </span>of Jesus being a homosexual, then that's the response you would have received. </div></div>

And what the bible says is based on intolerance and prejudice,...it`s intolerant and prejudice to exclude someone based on their sexual orientation is it not....?

Certainly the bible did provide evidence,the missing scriptures of <span style="font-weight: bold">mark</span> of jesus`s campaign in jericho has been conveniently &quot;lost&quot; to suit someone`s agenda.

It is no point in interpreting the bible and ripping out bits where it contradicts,and leaving only the bits that supports one`s view,..and that is precisely what has been done over the years with publication of different versions of the bible.

[quodlibet]

Re: Jesus was gay.....nay nenneh nay naay !!!

<span style="font-size: 20pt">PEOPLE!!

Is this what passes nowadays for discussion? Jeez... (no pun intended)</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could this have been jesus`s boyfriend.....?



Mark 14:51-52: These verses describe an unusual event associated with Jesus' arrest by the Temple guard in the Garden of Gethsemane. This passage describes an almost-naked young man who had been following Jesus. The passage has an almost cartoon-like theme. The guards grab at the man, but he runs away naked, leaving the men holding only the man's linen cloth. The text reads: &quot;And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him. And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.&quot; 3 Author Bart Ehrman writes: &quot;Interpreters have propounded a host of possible solutions to these questions over the centuries, but there has never been any consensus.


</div></div>

Anyway, when I look at the above, I dont read into that anything suggesting that Jesus was gay, it seems to be a few things:

1. Just because the youth went commando under the linen cloth does not make him gay - maybe it was laundry day.

2. Even if the youth himself was gay, does not mean Jesus was - I mean Jesus was famous... He probably had groupies, followers and fans then too, and not all of them would be straight.