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This is an extract from another thread about "Predestination"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Predestination is when somewhere before this child was born - the very moment he would be in the kitchen looking at that $20 was already decided.</div></div>
It's not that the event was "decided" was it? The event was "known." If everything that will happen is all ready known ahead of time, and the all powerful all knowing One knows that he/she will not interfere, then every single thing that ever happens is "predestined."
And as a mechanistic determinist, I believe that it was impossible for you not to put down the 20 dollar test in the first place.
</div></div>
Mechanistic Determinism - is essentially the idea that ALL current events ("effect"
are based on some previous action or situation ("cause".
This is more popularly known as the "Cause and Effect" way of understanding things.
For example -
A baby is born (effect) - traces back to the pregnancy (cause)
the pregnancy (effect) - traces back to the coital act (cause)
the coital act (effect) - traces back to a meeting of two people
conclusion - if the two never met - no baby
sounds simple, eh? It is, but sometimes the simplest of things lead to very complicated discussions.
For example, the idea above is the basic storyline for the classic "Terminator" movie, with a few additions:
John Connor beats the machines in the future
John is born (effect) - traces back to the pregnancy (cause)
the pregnancy (effect) - traces back to the coital act (cause)
the coital act (effect) - traces back to a meeting of two people - John's parents
So the machines decide to send a terminator back to kill John's mother.
There's the plot to the movie, in 5 lines...
-- yet it spawned a billion dollar franchise with multiple movies, TV series, a Govenator... but I digress
------------------
SO ANYWAY, I wanted to start this thread on "Mechanistic Determinism" to ask <span style="font-weight: bold">how this idea may or may not apply to Christian beliefs</span>.
For example, one side may take the position that
"God set in place his order from the beginning of time to have his will fulfilled for the purpose of man's salvation - he determined how it started, the path it took and the way it will end - and there is nothing we can do about it."
OR another side may take the position that
"God has a general plan for us with multiple paths, and we choose the path we wish to go down. Based on our choices, God will reward us based on his promises."
Of course, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">those are just examples</span></span> to stimulate discussion...
Any takers?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Predestination is when somewhere before this child was born - the very moment he would be in the kitchen looking at that $20 was already decided.</div></div>
It's not that the event was "decided" was it? The event was "known." If everything that will happen is all ready known ahead of time, and the all powerful all knowing One knows that he/she will not interfere, then every single thing that ever happens is "predestined."
And as a mechanistic determinist, I believe that it was impossible for you not to put down the 20 dollar test in the first place.
</div></div>Mechanistic Determinism - is essentially the idea that ALL current events ("effect"
are based on some previous action or situation ("cause".This is more popularly known as the "Cause and Effect" way of understanding things.
For example -
A baby is born (effect) - traces back to the pregnancy (cause)
the pregnancy (effect) - traces back to the coital act (cause)
the coital act (effect) - traces back to a meeting of two people
conclusion - if the two never met - no baby
sounds simple, eh? It is, but sometimes the simplest of things lead to very complicated discussions.
For example, the idea above is the basic storyline for the classic "Terminator" movie, with a few additions:
John Connor beats the machines in the future
John is born (effect) - traces back to the pregnancy (cause)
the pregnancy (effect) - traces back to the coital act (cause)
the coital act (effect) - traces back to a meeting of two people - John's parents
So the machines decide to send a terminator back to kill John's mother.
There's the plot to the movie, in 5 lines...
-- yet it spawned a billion dollar franchise with multiple movies, TV series, a Govenator... but I digress ------------------
SO ANYWAY, I wanted to start this thread on "Mechanistic Determinism" to ask <span style="font-weight: bold">how this idea may or may not apply to Christian beliefs</span>.
For example, one side may take the position that
"God set in place his order from the beginning of time to have his will fulfilled for the purpose of man's salvation - he determined how it started, the path it took and the way it will end - and there is nothing we can do about it."
OR another side may take the position that
"God has a general plan for us with multiple paths, and we choose the path we wish to go down. Based on our choices, God will reward us based on his promises."
Of course, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">those are just examples</span></span> to stimulate discussion...
Any takers?
</span>
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