Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

[johnnycakes]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sofisa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Atheism is a religion like any other religion, so who really gives a damn that they are atheists?

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">To each his own</span></span>, there is nothing to argue here. </div></div>

Unfortunately it is not that simple.
When as an atheist, the leader of the country declares war based on consultation and approval from his god, and your child gets drafted, shipped overseas and returns with missing limbs, a mental case, or worse yet, in a body bag, then you wish it was otherwise.
</div></div>


Well said Sofisa and so true.

.

[julie*mango]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Member_0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _____</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Bey and other black atheists, agnostics and secularists are struggling to openly affirm their secular viewpoints in a community that's historically heralded as one of America's most religious.
</div></div>



Struggling???? Seriously?????? Why would anyone care about what others think of their beliefs or lack thereof? </div></div>
For the reason I stated above.
I find often times people see lack of belief as the equivalent to against(in some cases atheist are) their belief.
either in the for of devil worship or promoting the devil or some religious folk se it as an attack on their culture or way of life especially in the very religious <span style="font-weight: bold">black community</span>.
So yes they care deeply if they think their religion is threatened and its a struggle for some to convince them otherwise. </div></div>


what black community??? is there such a thing? is skin color really binding? this is a whole other thread...

but back to being a black atheist ...

I don't see what the hooplah is...we all have different beliefs...even among &quot;believers&quot;... if you happen to not share the same beliefs how does that make you feel like you are being ostracized? i do not see all black people huddled together in church meetings so why should an atheist feel like they have to struggle to &quot;come out&quot; about their stance...IMO this equates to a deep seated insecurity in one's self if what other people think about your beliefs really affects you.

[DC]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
not all blacks believe in white-jesus-as-god-christianity, or any one religion for that matter; there are black muslims, buddhists, hindus, santerians, jews (ethiopia/africa), hare krshnas, etc.

that is just a result of mis-information by the powers that be...you have blacks of all different faiths- not just christianity; and not all blacks buy into the artist depictions commonly used to portrait jesus christ as a european man...many of us know that that is propaganda/tricknology born out of the pseudo-philosophy/religion called white supremacy...
jesus is recorded in the bible as having lived in africa (egypt)...there is no record he ever set foot in europe...
according to the bible moses was born in africa (egypt)and passed for the brother of the african prince (rameses) at the time...
yet modern day artists always depict him as a european...
these are tricks by men to suit their own interpretations, as no one on earth was there when life was created...
we only have theories and hypotheses...

leaving all religious allegories &amp; tales aside, as well as scientific theories about our origins aside...
intelligent deductive reasoning leads me to conclude that all complex systems have a designer...
especially the most complex of all ---LIFE; </div></div>

Agreed

[DC]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _____</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
what black community??? is there such a thing? is skin color really binding? this is a whole other thread...

but back to being a black atheist ...

I don't see what the hooplah is...we all have different beliefs...even among &quot;believers&quot;... if you happen to not share the same beliefs how does that make you feel like you are being ostracized? i do not see all black people huddled together in church meetings so why should an atheist feel like they have to struggle to &quot;come out&quot; about their stance...IMO this equates to a deep seated insecurity in one's self if what other people think about your beliefs really affects you. </div></div>


I hear ya blank.

Your response reminded me of my family and friends connections -mixture of athiests , agnostics, from 'very relgious' (fundamentalists), to not so 'religious people'. And the key I noticed to all of this is being comfortable in who you are, and believe me, the very 'fundamentalists' will have to get over it at some point and accept you for who you are. Are there debates? Absolutely, but it is from a point of being comfortable and appreciating each other for who they are/what they believe.
And to point out also--as it is in religion, there are varying degrees of atheists also

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Atheism is a religion like any other religion, so who really gives a damn that they are atheists?

To each his own, there is nothing to argue here. </div></div>
Atheism is not a religion.

Are you an atheist when it comes to Zeus? Apollo? Kali? Is your not believing-in, or ever thinking about them, a religion?

[MrHeathen]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _____</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Member_0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _____</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Bey and other black atheists, agnostics and secularists are struggling to openly affirm their secular viewpoints in a community that's historically heralded as one of America's most religious.
</div></div>



Struggling???? Seriously?????? Why would anyone care about what others think of their beliefs or lack thereof? </div></div>
For the reason I stated above.
I find often times people see lack of belief as the equivalent to against(in some cases atheist are) their belief.
either in the for of devil worship or promoting the devil or some religious folk se it as an attack on their culture or way of life especially in the very religious <span style="font-weight: bold">black community</span>.
So yes they care deeply if they think their religion is threatened and its a struggle for some to convince them otherwise. </div></div>


what black community??? is there such a thing? is skin color really binding? this is a whole other thread...

but back to being a black atheist ...

I don't see what the hooplah is...we all have different beliefs...even among &quot;believers&quot;... if you happen to not share the same beliefs how does that make you feel like you are being ostracized? i do not see all black people huddled together in church meetings so why should an atheist feel like they have to struggle to &quot;come out&quot; about their stance...IMO this equates to a deep seated insecurity in one's self if what other people think about your beliefs really affects you. </div></div>

lol

[britisha]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Atheism is a religion like any other religion, so who really gives a damn that they are atheists?

To each his own, there is nothing to argue here. </div></div>
Atheism is not a religion. </div></div>

...according to you; if in doubt, ask the philosophical theologians. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Are you an atheist when it comes to Zeus? Apollo? Kali? Is your not believing-in, or ever thinking about them, a religion? </div></div>

Weird question, be more specific, not that I will entertain it...


Now...from wiki...<span style="font-weight: bold">Sociologists and anthropologists tend to see religion as an abstract set of ideas, values, or experiences developed as part of a cultural matrix. For example, in Lindbeck's Nature of Doctrine, religion does not refer to belief in &quot;God&quot; or a transcendent Absolute. Instead, Lindbeck defines religion as,<span style="font-style: italic"> &quot;a kind of cultural and/or linguistic framework or medium that shapes the entirety of life and thought...</span> it is similar to an idiom that makes possible the description of realities, the formulation of beliefs, and the experiencing of inner attitudes, feelings, and sentiments.</span>

...religion has nothing to do with any specific deity; as such; it is about what ONE thinks and BELIEVE.

<span style="color: #000099">...it IS a new day, thank you for your mercies Lord...have a great day!!</span>

[julie*mango]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _____</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
what black community??? is there such a thing? is skin color really binding? this is a whole other thread...

but back to being a black atheist ...

I don't see what the hooplah is...we all have different beliefs...even among &quot;believers&quot;... if you happen to not share the same beliefs how does that make you feel like you are being ostracized? i do not see all black people huddled together in church meetings so why should an atheist feel like they have to struggle to &quot;come out&quot; about their stance...IMO this equates to a deep seated insecurity in one's self if what other people think about your beliefs really affects you. </div></div>


I hear ya blank.

Your response reminded me of my family and friends connections -mixture of athiests , agnostics, from 'very relgious' (fundamentalists), to not so 'religious people'. And the key I noticed to all of this is being comfortable in who you are, and believe me, the very 'fundamentalists' will have to get over it at some point and accept you for who you are. Are there debates? Absolutely, but it is from a point of being comfortable and appreciating each other for who they are/what they believe.
And to point out also--as it is in religion, there are varying degrees of atheists also </div></div>

agreed and agreed

[Peasie]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Atheism is a religion like any other religion, so who really gives a damn that they are atheists?

To each his own, there is nothing to argue here. </div></div>
Atheism is not a religion.

Are you an atheist when it comes to Zeus? Apollo? Kali? Is your not believing-in, or ever thinking about them, a religion? </div></div>

Forty haven't seen you in a while

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Atheism is a religion like any other religion, so who really gives a damn that they are atheists?
</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Atheism is not a religion.

Are you an atheist when it comes to Zeus? Apollo? Kali? Is your not believing-in, or ever thinking about them, a religion? </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Weird question, be more specific, not that I will entertain it...</div></div>
If you care to &quot;entertain&quot; my question, what it means is that gods never cross my mind. You, a Christian, believe in your god, but you don't believe in other gods like Zeus or Kali. You are equating not believing as &quot;having <span style="font-style: italic">faith</span>&quot; in no belief.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now...from wiki...<span style="font-weight: bold">Sociologists and anthropologists tend to see religion as an abstract set of ideas, values, or experiences developed as part of a cultural matrix. For example, in Lindbeck's Nature of Doctrine, religion does not refer to belief in &quot;God&quot; or a transcendent Absolute. Instead, Lindbeck defines religion as,<span style="font-style: italic"> &quot;a kind of cultural and/or linguistic framework or medium that shapes the entirety of life and thought...</span> it is similar to an idiom that makes possible the description of realities, the formulation of beliefs, and the experiencing of inner attitudes, feelings, and sentiments.</span>

...religion has nothing to do with any specific deity; as such; it is about what ONE thinks and BELIEVE.</div></div>
&quot;Religion is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship,[1] usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Aspects of religion include narrative, symbolism, beliefs, and practices that are supposed to give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life. Whether the meaning centers on a deity or deities, or an ultimate truth, religion is commonly identified by the practitioner's prayer, ritual, meditation, music and art, among other things, and is often interwoven with society and politics. It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which may yield a set of religious laws and ethics and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.

The term &quot;religion&quot; refers both to the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction. &quot;Religion&quot; is sometimes used interchangeably with &quot;faith&quot; or &quot;belief system&quot;,[2] but it is more socially defined than personal convictions, and it entails specific behaviors, respectively.&quot;
............

This is from the same Wikipedia article that you posted. This is the beginning of the article.

Also, if you will read the Wikipedia article closely then you will see that no where in that article is atheism called a religious belief.

&quot;Atheists have developed a critique of religious systems as well as personal faith. Modern-day critics hold that religion lacks utility in human society, and assert that religion is irrational.[30] Some assert that dogmatic religions are in effect morally deficient, elevating to moral status ancient, arbitrary, and ill-informed rules—taboos on eating pork, for example, as well as dress codes and sexual practices[31]—possibly designed for reasons of hygiene or even mere politics in a bygone era.&quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Also, you might want to read Wikipedia on atheism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism ... no where in the article is atheism referred to as a belief... or a religion.

[britisha]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<span style="font-weight: bold">Also, you might want to read Wikipedia on atheism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism ... no where in the article is atheism referred to as a belief... or a religion.</span>

**chukkle* so because it is not mentioned in the article, it means that this is NOT so?

Duh!!!

This is way over your head, I see... if I find the time, I will break it down for you further, but in the meantime, focus on the concept of the word &quot;belief&quot;....and ask yourself what do atheists believe, or DON'T believe..

edit to say...I find something easier for you to comprehend.... link...you cannot use the average run of the mill<span style="font-weight: bold"> definition</span> of words to argue something as deep and philosophical as this...you have to be prepared to understand the &quot;CONCEPTS&quot; underlying the words, and to examine them without bias or subjectivity.

[MrHeathen]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Also, you might want to read Wikipedia on atheism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism ... no where in the article is atheism referred to as a belief... or a religion.</span>

**chukkle* so because it is not mentioned in the article, it means that this is NOT so?

Duh!!!

This is way over your head, I see... if I find the time, I will break it down for you further, but in the meantime, focus on the concept of the word &quot;belief&quot;....and ask yourself what do atheists believe, or DON'T believe.. </div></div>
lol so people who &quot;believe&quot;in gravity are of the gravity religion?


learn something new everyday lol

[britisha]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Member_0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Also, you might want to read Wikipedia on atheism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism ... no where in the article is atheism referred to as a belief... or a religion.</span>

**chukkle* so because it is not mentioned in the article, it means that this is NOT so?

Duh!!!

This is way over your head, I see... if I find the time, I will break it down for you further, but in the meantime, focus on the concept of the word &quot;belief&quot;....and ask yourself what do atheists believe, or DON'T believe.. </div></div>
lol so people who &quot;believe&quot;in gravity are of the gravity religion?


learn something new everyday lol </div></div>

Why display your ignorance,[?] obviously you are unfamiliar with the concept of the word &quot;believe...&quot;

[MrHeathen]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Member_0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Faithfull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Also, you might want to read Wikipedia on atheism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism ... no where in the article is atheism referred to as a belief... or a religion.</span>

**chukkle* so because it is not mentioned in the article, it means that this is NOT so?

Duh!!!

This is way over your head, I see... if I find the time, I will break it down for you further, but in the meantime, focus on the concept of the word &quot;belief&quot;....and ask yourself what do atheists believe, or DON'T believe.. </div></div>
lol so people who &quot;believe&quot;in gravity are of the gravity religion?


learn something new everyday lol </div></div>

Why display your ignorance,[?] obviously you are unfamiliar with the concept of the word &quot;believe...&quot; </div></div>
in that case im following the pace you set my friend....







atheism is NOT a religion

[rudemonk]

Re: Blacks mirroring larger trend - Coming out as non-believ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
intelligent deductive reasoning leads me to conclude that all complex systems have a designer...
especially the most complex of all ---LIFE; </div></div>

you can't say that, as a result of intelligent deductive reasoning, that that is a valid conclusion. first of all, not all complex systems are designed. many are spontaneous. in fact, when one examines just how poorly some complex systems for which the claim is made they were designed actually function more by luck than by anything else, we should actually expect to find random happy circumstances by which complex systems over time develop- and so it exactly seems to be what is being discovered in abiogenesis.

there is no evidence to support the statement that all complex systems have a designer therefore life has one- that holds up, when you take it to the necessary logical conclusion.

all you can say is you don't know.

the logical conclusion one must reach if one is honest is agnostic.

the problem is you can not define or describe what created the creator, when it comes time to tackle that thorn, you get all kinds of mental gymnastics about definitions or worse, gobbledeegook like it is so far beyond our human comprehension and other tired saws, perpetrated on people by others who want you not to think.

so for the same reason you dismiss all reasons other than a creator for there being life, you must also dismiss a creator...

if you want to be deductive and logical, you have to be able to accept the results of the process and not just stop where your comfort zone lies.

if you are not comfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, then you are not being deductive or logical.