Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

[quodlibet]

Is Virgin Birth Critical to the teachings of Christianity, and why?

Does the teaching of a great one arising from a maiden that was impregnated by a deity have any relationship to Greek myths of the period?

[rudemonk]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

its got tons of precedent!!!

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

If a virgin birth resulted in the existence of Jesus, lesbians can get married.

Since thewre is no threat to the future of the population from cessation if birth.

Who knows thea future population may become holier than thou.

[evanovitch]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

virgin birth is not ongle taught in Christianity...it is also a tenet in Islam... Muslims refer to Jesus with the matronymic Jesus son of Mary (Isa bin Maryam), a term repeatedly used in the Qur'an

[evanovitch]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Is Virgin Birth Critical to the teachings of Christianity, and why?</span></div></div>

Yes and Yes again....Faith...all comes back to Faith...things unseen

Faith is the essence of Christianity...

Mary's lesson to us is that that kind of faith is characteristic of a righteous person, a person who submits to the authority of the Word of God and who lives by faith in that Word even when it makes absolutely no sense, and there was no human historical precedent on which she could say, this is true, that’s a woman who’s righteous. She accepted it, and most lovely was her Magnificat as the Bible, or as history has called it. “And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord.” Luke 1:?6. “My spirit hath rejoiced. For he hath regarded the <span style="font-style: italic">low estate </span>of his handmaiden; for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.” Oh, what a godly lady, there was no quizzical thing in her mind, there was no doubt; there was no misgiving; there was no pondering; there was no wondering, there was no questioning, there was an instant submission and an instant belief that this in fact was God’s truth. What a righteous lady. She was so plugged into God, she was a true Old Testament saint, that she could sense when God was speaking. And she went on to praise God for what He was going to do.

[mountaingal]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

she was a teen mother. she also had other kids after jesus, not for the almighty, though. the importance of jesus' virgin birth kinda loses steam i think in light of mary's general procreativity.

i'd think the actions and philosophy of jesus are what's critical to the christian faith, and not necessarily whether his mother was a virgin. but as u know, i'm not christian.

<span style="font-style: italic">u know, just the other day i was reading up on marian philosophy, which seems to have taken a peculiar hold in the catholic church. </span>

[quodlibet]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Is Virgin Birth Critical to the teachings of Christianity, and why?</span></div></div>

Yes and Yes again....Faith...all comes back to Faith...things unseen

Faith is the essence of Christianity...

Mary's lesson to us is that that kind of faith is characteristic of a righteous person, a person who submits to the authority of the Word of God and who lives by faith in that Word even when it makes absolutely no sense, and there was no human historical precedent on which she could say, this is true, that’s a woman who’s righteous. She accepted it, and most lovely was her Magnificat as the Bible, or as history has called it. “And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord.” Luke 1:?6. “My spirit hath rejoiced. For he hath regarded the <span style="font-style: italic">low estate </span>of his handmaiden; for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.” Oh, what a godly lady, there was no quizzical thing in her mind, there was no doubt; there was no misgiving; there was no pondering; there was no wondering, there was no questioning, there was an instant submission and an instant belief that this in fact was God’s truth. What a righteous lady. She was so plugged into God, she was a true Old Testament saint, that she could sense when God was speaking. And she went on to praise God for what He was going to do.
</div></div>

So from your words above, are you suggesting that <span style="font-style: italic">Mary's faith</span> is critical to the teaching of Christianity?

[Peasie]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is Virgin Birth Critical to the teachings of Christianity, and why?</div></div>

If, by &quot;critical&quot;, you mean &quot;of decisive importance with respect to the outcome; crucial; essential importance&quot; then, my answer is <span style="font-weight: bold">no</span>.

Why? Because the Virgin Birth is not decisive nor even crucial to Christianity! What is of essential importance to this faith is: that we are loved by God, we should love God, and we ought to love others as God has loved us. That this universal truth is shared by almost all faiths is not an accident.

Now each person can go and figure out/discuss/argue/interpret all the other &quot;stuff&quot; around Christianity such as virgin birth, water baptism, blah, blah, blah. Me? I'm sticking to the essential truth of my faith.

[quodlibet]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is Virgin Birth Critical to the teachings of Christianity, and why?</div></div>

If, by &quot;critical&quot;, you mean &quot;of decisive importance with respect to the outcome; crucial; essential importance&quot; then, my answer is <span style="font-weight: bold">no</span>.

Why? Because the Virgin Birth is not decisive nor even crucial to Christianity! What is of essential importance to this faith is: that we are loved by God, we should love God, and we ought to love others as God has loved us. That this universal truth is shared by almost all faiths is not an accident.

Now each person can go and figure out/discuss/argue/interpret all the other &quot;stuff&quot; around Christianity such as virgin birth, water baptism, blah, blah, blah. Me? I'm sticking to the essential truth of my faith. </div></div>

Its about time...

Yes Peasie, that was my working definition, and thanks for the clear and specific response.

[DC]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

Catholics would disagree, but, personally, it is not the most critical element of Christianity. I am with Peasie with this one when it comes the the essentials of the faith.
As it is reported, Christmas-the birth of Jesus-was not the most celebrated event of the early church faith. They argued that the death, burial and resurrection event was the most critical to the christian faith.

[evanovitch]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yes and Yes again....Faith...all comes back to Faith...things unseen

Faith is the essence of Christianity...

</div></div>

this is wat i said...it is funny how i say the said ting n oonoo go out a oonoo way fi praise oddas fi di clarity of fi dem statement wich is juss wat i said in dis...mi a tell oonoo seh oonoo people a joke


btw if i stawt wid Faith is the essence n den go on to show how Mary showed faith y would u garner di dam foolish question u ask...ah sah

[johnnycakes]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

&quot;.....we ought to love others as God has loved us.&quot;

Peasie has the essence of what it takes to lead a moral and Godly existence in this one sentence.

All else is just words.

[quodlibet]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yes and Yes again....Faith...all comes back to Faith...things unseen

Faith is the essence of Christianity...

</div></div>

this is wat i said...it is funny how i say the said ting n oonoo go out a oonoo way fi praise oddas fi di clarity of fi dem statement wich is juss wat i said in dis...mi a tell oonoo seh oonoo people a joke


btw if i stawt wid Faith is the essence n den go on to show how Mary showed faith y would u garner di dam foolish question u ask...ah sah </div></div>

Den yu mussi neva clear wen yu jus start wid wha yu seh - how mi did fi know seh a dat yu mean?

[quodlibet]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">virgin birth is not ongle taught in Christianity...it is also a tenet in Islam... Muslims refer to Jesus with the matronymic Jesus son of Mary (Isa bin Maryam), a term repeatedly used in the Qur'an </div></div>

Understood, but is it argued as a core part of their belief system?

[Dyoll_73]

Re: Virgin Birth - Is this Critical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'd think the actions and philosophy of jesus are what's critical to the christian faith, and not necessarily whether his mother was a virgin. [/i] </div></div>

So you would think, but mainstream Christianity has determined that the &quot;God in the flesh&quot; (Jesus), his supposed redemptive work, death and resurrection, form the basis of what it means to be a Christian. In fairness, though, not all Christians believe accept these, and some just just stick with the teachings and philosophy. And even then, &quot;love your neighbor as yourself&quot;, &quot;do unto others as you would have them do to you&quot;, etc. are not unique to Jesus; these teachings preceded him, and can be found in a number of religious traditions predating Christianity.

So Matthew who may have been working with the Septuagint, gets the meaning of the Isaiah text wrong. Isaiah 7:12 - &quot;Behold a <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">virgin</span></span> shall conceive and bear a son ... &quot; The Hebrew word for virgin would be &quot;bethulah&quot; but the text read:&quot;Behold a <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">(almah)</span></span> shall conceive ...&quot; The text should read: &quot;Behold a <span style="font-weight: bold">young woman</span> (not virgin) shall conceive ...&quot;

As a result of insisting on the virginity of Mary (immaculately conceived as the Catholics say), a strange narrative had to be woven together. Jesus, God incarnate, entered the world asexually, because like anyone who was anyone from surrounding and preceding cultures, he had to be born of a virgin. A little problem is created by the writers of Matthew and Luke: Jesus had no biological link to the Davidic lineage, an important prerequisite to his status as messiah. But it may not be a problem afterall since Jesus was Joseph's biological son.