Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

[johnnycakes]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

"god" in infinite wisdom put fissile material deep under the earth's core...
man in his arrogance, has extracted that material & brought it into the atmosphere...
now the world is panicking...
"


j-y,

The uranium that is used to power nuclear devices is mined from the Earth just as iron, copper, gold and other minerals are.
That uranium then has to be concentrated to get it to where it is usable for nuclear power.
God did not bury it deep in the Earth.
And it is not arrogance but the need for electric power that has us using it.

And...are the few accidents at nuclear plants in any way comparable to the universal poisoning of our water and fish with mercury and the atmosphere with CO2 from the use of fossil fuels and who knows what else that we breathe and ingest from car exhausts?

It is too bad that the Intelligent Designer didn't design in some form of clean and sufficient power in the first place.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go watch some of Christopher Hitchens' debates on the existence of God. He's a lot better at this than I am.</div></div>

watching him is pointless since he does not know how life began...

he is making intelligent guesses like the rest of us...
he can't create life except by inseminating a fertile woman...and that was already programmed into his hard drive (no pun intended) since he was a microscopic cell...

he can not replicate nor explain the miraculous accident (per him) that created life so right now he is just another fraud </div></div>



Right j_y,

You call Hitchens a fraud and you have never listened to what he has to say.

NO ONE can say how life began YET.

And to repeat ....Just because science hasn't discovered how and why life began does not in any way mean that they will not.

What science is fairly sure of is that it was not created by a celestial magician.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends


&quot;one of my most memorable spiritual experiences happened a bout 10 years ago, sitting in a boat, being rowed to a part of hellshire where we were going to look for iguanas. the boat was slung low on the water so i felt almost like i was sitting right on top of it, and i was trailing my hand in the water.

there was just the two boats on a wide wide blue sea, with a high big sky above us. a marvellous thought ran across my mind - &quot;just think,<span style="text-decoration: underline"> i share atoms</span> with the boat, the sea, the sky, with all of this around me. we are all part of one, huge being.&quot; it was an intense moment of connection, and i felt a supreme happiness.

i think that acceptance of oneself as a collection of atoms in a different shape, formed through natural phenomenon (rather than an unseen being), can be a spiritually nourishing pov. one simply has to find the opportunities to go out on a metaphorical boat on the water to be reminded and sustained.&quot;


MGee
I want some of whatever it was you were smoking in that boat.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

&quot;and that there is more to life than we CURRENTLY are able to comprehend...&quot;


j_y,
This is what Monk and I have been saying all along.

[jah_yout]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;god&quot; in infinite wisdom put fissile material deep under the earth's core...
man in his arrogance, has extracted that material &amp; brought it into the atmosphere...
now the world is panicking...
&quot;


j-y,

The uranium that is used to power nuclear devices is mined from the Earth just as iron, copper, gold and other minerals are.
That uranium then has to be concentrated to get it to where it is usable for nuclear power.
God did not bury it deep in the Earth.
And it is not arrogance but the need for electric power that has us using it.

And...are the few accidents at nuclear plants in any way comparable to the universal poisoning of our water and fish with mercury and the atmosphere with CO2 from the use of fossil fuels and who knows what else that we breathe and ingest from car exhausts?

It is too bad that the Intelligent Designer didn't design in some form of clean and sufficient power in the first place. </div></div>

yes the accidents at nuclear plants is comparable to the poisoning of our planet...the fact is that nuclear waste takes thousands of years to break down- nuclear waste on earth is a human-made condition just as pollution from fossil fuels is...this was not necessarily a 'need' but a choice on our part to use these things for energy;

that is an absurd statement to say an intelligent designer did not design some form of clean and efficient energy-
what is solar energy?
what is hydro power?

i think looking at creation in this way is doing the very same thing you accuse the bible-thumpers of doing-- attributing everything to some unseen manipulator- that is not necessarily what 'God' is...

everything we use on earth is of the earth &amp; here already-
we simply manipulate it according to our wants &amp; needs...

the nuclear emergency in japan is completely a man-made event &amp; has nothing to do with 'God'...if anything it has to do with ignoring or attempting to defy &quot;God&quot;...

and even this warning we will probably ignore--- just as we did Chernobyl

[jah_yout]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;and that there is more to life than we CURRENTLY are able to comprehend...&quot;


j_y,
This is what Monk and I have been saying all along. </div></div>

add me to the list...

you think we will eventually discover that we are the result of a miraculous accidental explosion, but that may never be proven as far as CURRENTLY know

[mountaingal]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
&quot;one of my most memorable spiritual experiences happened a bout 10 years ago, sitting in a boat, being rowed to a part of hellshire where we were going to look for iguanas. the boat was slung low on the water so i felt almost like i was sitting right on top of it, and i was trailing my hand in the water.

there was just the two boats on a wide wide blue sea, with a high big sky above us. a marvellous thought ran across my mind - &quot;just think,<span style="text-decoration: underline"> i share atoms</span> with the boat, the sea, the sky, with all of this around me. we are all part of one, huge being.&quot; it was an intense moment of connection, and i felt a supreme happiness.

i think that acceptance of oneself as a collection of atoms in a different shape, formed through natural phenomenon (rather than an unseen being), can be a spiritually nourishing pov. one simply has to find the opportunities to go out on a metaphorical boat on the water to be reminded and sustained.&quot;


MGee
I want some of whatever it was you were smoking in that boat. </div></div>

LOL. i dont indulge. nature, unfiltered by human activity or intent, can be very uplifting.

[mountaingal]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
you also share atoms with dirt..</div></div>

yes, that's not a bad thing. within dirt there are countless microcosms that also share the same molecular space as the asteroids in the universe. amazing, really, and something i'm glad to be a part of.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the question is- how does that dirt go from inanimate object, to living thing with the ability to operate on its own and reproduce...
this is what they can not answer to this point </div></div>

again, jy, it may be <span style="text-decoration: underline">a</span> question, but not <span style="text-decoration: underline">the</span> question, because in the end, in terms of human existence, and certainly human spirituality, it is what u do with the life u have that matters, and not how u got it in the end. i'm happy for scientific inquiry into the unknown to continue because there is a resulting benefit to human health most times. proving that there is an &quot;intelligent designer&quot; doesnt deliver the same results.

[mountaingal]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the nuclear emergency in japan is completely a man-made event &amp; has nothing to do with 'God'...if anything it has to do with ignoring or attempting to defy &quot;God&quot;... </div></div>

i think u just contradicted urself.

[jah_yout]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the nuclear emergency in japan is completely a man-made event &amp; has nothing to do with 'God'...if anything it has to do with ignoring or attempting to defy &quot;God&quot;... </div></div>

i think u just contradicted urself. </div></div>


it seems that way...i should clarify;
people have many interpretations &amp; definitions of 'god'...
some believe in a god that is watching us &amp; manipulating events from somewhere...
i am saying that the nuclear event specifically (because some would call the earthquake &amp; tsunami part of it an 'act of god')-- had nothing to do with that type of 'god' because god never set up nuclear plants on earth...

it is a crisis made possible by human acts...
when i say defying god...i am talking about a certain natural order of the universe-- a certain power of wisdom &amp; reason--- another interpretation of 'god'...
by upsetting this balance it is possible for us to inflict great damage on the planet &amp; on each other...

p.s. i never said dirt was a bad thing

[jah_yout]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
you also share atoms with dirt..</div></div>

yes, that's not a bad thing. within dirt there are countless microcosms that also share the same molecular space as the asteroids in the universe. amazing, really, and something i'm glad to be a part of.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the question is- how does that dirt go from inanimate object, to living thing with the ability to operate on its own and reproduce...
this is what they can not answer to this point </div></div>

again, jy, it may be <span style="text-decoration: underline">a</span> question, but not <span style="text-decoration: underline">the</span> question, because in the end, in terms of human existence, and certainly human spirituality, it is what u do with the life u have that matters, and not how u got it in the end. i'm happy for scientific inquiry into the unknown to continue because there is a resulting benefit to human health most times. proving that there is an &quot;intelligent designer&quot; doesnt deliver the same results. </div></div>


i also believe scientific inquiry should continue...until some definite answer is found i accept that there is much we do not know about life &amp; will not take any possibility concerning its origin or meaning off the table

[johnnycakes]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

j_y,

As one with whom I have had considerable discussions on related subjects, could I ask you to read the Time article linked below and give me your thoughts on some of the boggling concepts contained therein?

I read it yesterday and cannot stop thinking about the ramifications of what is being developed and which will come to fruition probably just after I die of old age.

I guess the immortality possibility is one thing but perhaps the thought of an intelligence that we (some of us) can now only think of in the sense of an omniscient God.

[mountaingal]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
people have many interpretations &amp; definitions of 'god'...
some believe in a god that is watching us &amp; manipulating events from somewhere...
<span style="font-weight: bold">i am saying that the nuclear event specifically (because some would call the earthquake &amp; tsunami part of it an 'act of god')-- had nothing to do with that type of 'god' because god never set up nuclear plants on earth...</span>

it is a crisis made possible by human acts...
when i say defying god...i am talking about a certain natural order of the universe-- a certain power of wisdom &amp; reason--- another interpretation of 'god'...
by upsetting this balance it is possible for us to inflict great damage on the planet &amp; on each other...</div></div>

following your line of reasoning, the first basic shelter human beings manufactured to protect themselves from the elements constituted an upset of the natural order. if god did not set up nuclear plants, then god did not set up schools, hospitals, even church buildings - which are all manifestations of man's attempt to self-protect from nature.

ironically, i think u would find believers who think that god is behind man's ingenuity in creating these institutions that in the end aim to make a better society for all.

the nuclear crisis in japan became a crisis as a result of a natural force, the tsunami. a tsunami is not a man-made force.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

Very good points MGee.

[jah_yout]

Re: Atheism - A Life Without Imaginary Friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">following your line of reasoning, the first basic shelter human beings manufactured to protect themselves from the elements constituted an upset of the natural order</div></div>.

that is not my line of reasoning at all;
for setting up shelter using materials found on earth does not harm the environment nor does it harm others---(provided one respects the earth &amp; by extension &quot;god&quot
, the way nuclear waste &amp; global warming due to fossil fuel use does...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> if god did not set up nuclear plants, then god did not set up schools, hospitals, even church buildings - which are all manifestations of man's attempt to self-protect from nature.</div></div>

this is true- god did not set these things up; humans built these things with the materials provided by 'god'...which again shows free will...god is not some guy looking down pulling puppet strings deciding what to do to earth today...

using the materials found on earth in &amp; of itself is not inherently good or evil...
it all depends on its use...it can be used for good...(building shelters)...or bad (toxic dumping, nuclear waste)....some actions will not trend toward destroying the earth, but others will...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ironically, i think u would find believers who think that god is behind man's ingenuity in creating these institutions that in the end aim to make a better society for all.</div></div>

a large part of the earth's destiny is in the hands of humans...whether for good or bad...that is the legacy of this creation---whatever one interprets as 'god'

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the nuclear crisis in japan became a crisis as a result of a natural force, the tsunami. a tsunami is not a man-made force.</div></div>

i clearly never said a tsunami was a man-made force...but the nuclear plants- which is the main issue right now-- is completely a man-made situation;
it is men who decided that living with radioactive material was a risk worth taking in order to supply energy at an economical rate...
just keep in mind that nuclear waste takes millenia to break down...
this is potentially far more dangerous to the planet than any tsunami or any other 'act of god'