The Free Will Defense vs Logical Problem of Evil:

[quodlibet]

Re: The Free Will Defense vs Logical Problem of Evil:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whew, What a lot of high sounding nonsense.
It is much easier and logical to assume that there is no God, no divine creator since we can be as moral without God as with and as evil with and because of God as without.
(Hitchens)

The posted article seemed much like a convention of UFO kooks discussing the details of possible extraterrestrial civilizations and their motivations for visiting Earth.

Interesting maybe, but dealing with a fiction.

</div></div>


JC, what if the dependence on logic, was itself a mental defect? Is not logic a single branch of mental function in a whole forest of mental functions? </div></div>

logic is proved by mathematics. it is a process of inference, independently verifiable, conclusions must be demonstrated, and as a field of science, developed, like math, across different cultures. since it is repeatable, and more importantly falsifiable, it's practically not possible to be a mental defect. logical conclusions may be defective or untrue, or unprovable, but then it is logic and science which show that to be the case. </div></div>

Does math contain in it original thought? Isn't mathematics the expression of a thought in a specific manner? The last 400 years brought changes to the field of mathematics, did it change logic as well?

[johnnycakes]

Re: The Free Will Defense vs Logical Problem of Evil:


Does math contain in it original thought? Isn't mathematics the expression of a thought in a specific manner? The last 400 years brought changes to the field of mathematics, did it change logic as well? [/quote]


If I may jump in here,
Math is definitely not my forte but it seems that the formulae and equations etc always existed and are self-contained and humans uncovered them rather than thought them up.
Like the laws of physics.

Good and evil are infinitely variable and much of it is debatable and depends on culture and perspective but 1+1 will always = 2 .

Your turn monk.

[rudemonk]

Re: The Free Will Defense vs Logical Problem of Evil:

I'm not sure what you mean by &quot;original thought&quot;.

do you mean is there discovery? new ways to apply logic?

I'd say that you can definitely use mathematics to express original thought- and then others can have a proof of what you are saying, check it, and prove it for themselves. so yes, in that sense.

whatever advances and changes are cumulative, based on what came before and what is added to the body of knowledge. but you can't just make up things out of whole cloth and have them be &quot;logical&quot; or mathematical. they have to make sense.

i'll grant it's confusing because most people slaughter the term logical in their daily conversation.

[quodlibet]

Re: The Free Will Defense vs Logical Problem of Evil:

Original thought as in an idea not previously represented by other means of communication. It may communicate ideas, but to claim logic being based on a system that by itself does not support original thought, is to reduce the value of logic...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure what you mean by &quot;original thought&quot;.

do you mean is there discovery? new ways to apply logic?

I'd say that you can definitely use mathematics to express original thought- and then others can have a proof of what you are saying, check it, and prove it for themselves. so yes, in that sense.

whatever advances and changes are cumulative, based on what came before and what is added to the body of knowledge. but you can't just make up things out of whole cloth and have them be &quot;logical&quot; or mathematical. they have to make sense.

i'll grant it's confusing because most people slaughter the term logical in their daily conversation. </div></div>

[rudemonk]

Re: The Free Will Defense vs Logical Problem of Evil:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Original thought as in an idea not previously represented by other means of communication. It may communicate ideas, but to claim logic being based on a system that by itself does not support original thought, is to reduce the value of logic...
</div></div>

well to be clear, i certainly did not mean to imply that one could not express ideas using logic, or math, I'd say that they are indispensible tools for certain people to do exactly that, and to discover if their thoughts are worthy of sharing and consideration or even valid.

since both math and logic are demonstrable and repeatable they are very important for that process.

[rudemonk]

Re: The Free Will Defense vs Logical Problem of Evil:

quod- would you introduce an example to clarify?

[quodlibet]

Re: The Free Will Defense vs Logical Problem of Evil:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quodlibet,
I'm not trying to be funny here but what you said doesn't sound logical.

Logic is based on fact and if we are dealing with faith well, of course, you have to throw out logic. It gets in the way of a good fairy tale but logic IS required to debunk fictions.

Logic a mental defect?

It would seem that LACK of logic would be the mental defect . </div></div>

Logic is but one capacity that the brain has at its disposal. To depend on it as if nothing else matters is like seeing function without beauty, utility without art.

[johnnycakes]

Re: The Free Will Defense vs Logical Problem of Evil:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quodlibet,
I'm not trying to be funny here but what you said doesn't sound logical.

Logic is based on fact and if we are dealing with faith well, of course, you have to throw out logic. It gets in the way of a good fairy tale but logic IS required to debunk fictions.

Logic a mental defect?

It would seem that LACK of logic would be the mental defect . </div></div>

Logic is but one capacity that the brain has at its disposal. To depend on it as if nothing else matters is like seeing function without beauty, utility without art. </div></div>



Quodlibet,

Agreed that logic isn't everything but without it almost everything else grinds to a halt.
Function IS most often based on logic. Utility requires logic.
Art doesn't require logic although some art only makes some sense, has some logic to the creator of that art and not to the casual viewer.