More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

[evanovitch]

More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities


Date: Monday, October 03, 2011, 5:51 am
By: Denise Stewart, BlackAmericaweb.com


The National Black Church Initiative is launching a program to get 10 million black men back in church.

The National Black Church Initiative (NBCI) says it has a solution for crime, domestic violence and joblessness in the black community – get more black men back into the church on Sundays and throughout the week.

The Washington, D.C. –based network of more than 34,000 congregations this week launched its “Bring the Black Men Back to Church Initiative.” The goal is to get 10 million black men back in church over the next seven years, said the Rev. Anthony Evans, president of NBCI.

“If you are unemployed, if you are dealing with issues like anger or drug and alcohol abuse and you are a black male, the only option for you is to find someone who is compassion. And you can find that compassion in church,” Evans told Blackamericaweb.com. “We are the one institution that is not judging you. Instead we are here to help you deal with all that is on your plate.”

The presence of black men in churches, Evans said, helps the man and it helps the church, “because it will force the church to have programs to meet the needs of the men.”

An increase in the number of black men in a church also will force the women to share the power, and it will bring other women to the church, because they will realize they can find suitable mates, Evans said.

“It will also help keep the pastor’s in check. If they are tipping around, a black man is going to say something.”

Juan Floyd-Thomas, PhD, a professor at the Vanderbilt School of Divinity who specializes in the study of the black church, said a more dominant presence of women in black churches is a similar pattern found among other religious groups.

Floyd-Thomas, who has been everything from an usher to a Bible study teacher in Baptist churches, said that over the years he has encountered black men who have left the church for a variety of reasons.

“Some say, ‘all of this love is being heaped on pastor. What is left for us?’” Floyd-Thomas told BlackAmericaweb.com.

The church needs black men, and black men need the church, he said.

“The church has to be able to speak to men where they are and instill within them the sense of responsibility, saying ‘this is what you need to do to get your life on track. This is what you need to do to come know Christ.’”

Evans said the NBCI will train 1,000 men from 100 congregations to go out as evangelize to black men who currently are not church participants. They will be recruited to participate in faith centers that will be staffed with counselors and clergy to help meet the men’s needs.

“The first centers will happen in our regional ministries in Atlanta, Dallas, Oakland, New York, and Chicago,” Evans said.

“If you are in church, you can build a network. Maybe you’ll meet someone who has a job. Or maybe you’ll find someone who can stand up for you when you are looking for a job,” Evans said.

“If you are in church, you are not stealing. If you are in church, we can say to you, ‘Pay your child support. Handle your responsibilities,’” he said. “’Get a checkup. Take care of yourself.’”

[johnnycakes]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

I should think that descendants of slaves would [censored] avoid the religion of their former masters especially those of the turn-the-other-cheek variety and absolute obedience to an authority that orders genocide, genital mutilation, misogyny.

Male descendants of slaves attend church in far fewer numbers than do females possibly or likely because they have had enough of oppression, suppression and the lies and fictions of the white oppressor..

I don't think they feel the need for someone else with absolute and unquestioning authority telling them what to do or else meet a fate worse than death.

Better to watch the "Slave Sermons" series of videos than to go to church and for the reasons mentioned on those videos.

religions = mental slavery

[Tulip]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I should think that descendants of slaves would [censored] avoid the religion of their former masters... </div></div>

Why would you think that JC? How does religion ever get passed down?

I have not seen the inside of a church in a long time, but I think some people need religion - not just some, but a lot of people, To my dismay, I have observed there are far fewer people who act right simply because it is right than I had previously thought. Some people need potential consequences and fear of retribution because they seem to lack a moral compass of their own.

Aside from zealots, I don't see a real problem. I'd be especially shocked if the environment wasn't one of judging, but how is that any worse than the regular day-to-day? Everybody is not able to lead so I say let them follow something that reins them in a bit. It's not like all of the teachings are the worst ideas ever.

[johnnycakes]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

&quot;Why would you think that JC? How does religion ever get passed down?&quot;


If I, or my race were imprisoned and torn from my family and denied basic human rights for four hundred years I do not think that i would ever consider adopting the institutions that made those predations possible or even likely. ( The Bible supports slavery-see Leviticus and capitalism is what benefitted from slavery) .
Today religion gets passed down in the most effective way possible; parents brainwash their own children by taking them to church and brainwashing them before they can speak or have even an elementary grasp of the principles involved. God, to them is just another in a parade of fantasy figures that they are told are real; Santa Claus, the Tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, all real to them. What they are told are lies that the parents think are good for them because that's what their parents brainwashed them into believeing and which those parents' parents brainwashed them into believing all the way back to the first converts to the oppressors religion. .

&quot;I have not seen the inside of a church in a long time, but I think some people need religion - not just some, but a lot of people, To my dismay, I have observed there are far fewer people who act right simply because it is right than I had previously thought. Some people need potential consequences and fear of retribution because they seem to lack a moral compass of their own.&quot;

Tulip,
while I can understand why you wrote what you did above don't be too sure of the that humans are innately evil or that the church and religion are any moral force greater than that which is innate in all humans.
Since you are not religious, I would ask you to view this video ( just 12 minutes) or at least the segment that begins at 6:00 and ends around 7:00 that deals with just this.
I really do urge you to watch this in its entirety and hear and LEARN what you will never hear in any church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo82sgrSAYg

&quot;Aside from zealots, I don't see a real problem. I'd be especially shocked if the environment wasn't one of judging, but how is that any worse than the regular day-to-day? Everybody is not able to lead so I say let them follow something that reins them in a bit. It's not like all of the teachings are the worst ideas ever.&quot;

Tulip,
It is not exactly that zealots have done so much damage to our civilization that is the problem but rather the regular followers of religions that teach misogyny, that slavery is good, that child genital mutilation is mandatory, that God (or anyone) must be obeyed unquestionably and the following of the Bible which was written by primitive Bronze Age people in times that were far less knowledgeable about humanity.
Denial of abortion, food prohibitions, sexual prohibitions denial of birth control etc. etc. etc. all things that make our lives difficult are enforced not by zealots but by loyal followers of church leaders who interpret the word of God for them and who set their priorities.

Christopher Hitchens at the end of most of his many debates asks the same question of believers in the moral leadership of the church vs the evil that religion does;

Name one act of good recommended by the church that a human would not do without the influence of the church and then come up with examples of evils that humans do SOLELY based on what their religions order them to do.

It is a very lopsided answer that comes out.

Have you watched the &quot;Slave Sermon&quot; series that others have posted in this forum in the past?
They can give you much more info than I possibly could in much more dramatic fashion than I could on the illogic of the descendants of slaves adopting the oppressors religion. Do check them out -there are more than 20 at (I think) You Tube.

Last thought: The teachings of Christ are truly good but very few actually follow them since in today's thinking the ACCEPTANCE of Christ as the son of God is supposed to be enough to get you admitted to heaven. After that much of the Bible is archaic, homophobic, misogynist, brutal to the point that the evil and all the meaningless gobbledegook merely confuses and detracts from the help-the-poor message so that as with legal issues, religious mumbo-jumbo has to be explained to the common people by professionals .

The entire two set volume could be boiled down to the Golden Rule on a single small piece of paper but it would put a whole church industry out of business which is what needs to happen.

Thanks for your post

[Wahalla]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

Given that a man would take their children to church and thus expose them to morality, as well as spending time with them....there is some merit..imho.. ps I fall asleep every time I go to church.... Will take the monster to church this christmas....will get a good sleep as well...

[johnnycakes]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

&quot;Given that a man would take their children to church and thus expose them to MORALITY ???

How about brainwashing them, lying to them to get them to believe the fictions contained in the Bible and the inhumane practices ordered by God?

It also teaches them unqualified obedience to a &quot;celestial dictator whom they must both love and fear&quot; (Hitchens).

And of course, any five year old can understand the allegories, the metaphors, the pleading to an invisible being that goes on in a service, right?


There is no better way to maintain that slave mentality over the generations than getting the kids started early in learning the &quot;fear of God&quot; knowing who their bosses are starting with the white man's God since African animalist deities or other belief structures must be inferior to the oppressor's God.

Listen to what you're saying and try to understand the institutions of mental slavery you've signed up with.

It would be more moral to push heroin addiction.

[jah_yout]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I should think that descendants of slaves would [censored] avoid the religion of their former masters especially those of the turn-the-other-cheek variety and absolute obedience to an authority that orders genocide, genital mutilation, misogyny.

Male descendants of slaves attend church in far fewer numbers than do females possibly or likely because they have had enough of oppression, suppression and the lies and fictions of the white oppressor..

I don't think they feel the need for someone else with absolute and unquestioning authority telling them what to do or else meet a fate worse than death.

Better to watch the &quot;Slave Sermons&quot; series of videos than to go to church and for the reasons mentioned on those videos.

religions = mental slavery


</div></div>

the generalisations too sweeping...
as i always say-- the bible is a collection of book-- not one book...there are things in different books of the bible which can be taken in different ways...
the book of proverbs is universal wisdom,,,tried and true philosophy for the most part...
enslaved africans would have positively identified with the jews of the exodus...
after all the similarities are striking;
enslaved in a strange land for 400 years having fallen out of favor with creation due to their own folly...and a promise of redemption should that universal order (called god or such) be restored to primacy in their lives and therefore throughout humanity...

not to mention, the ancient african mystery scriptures of the nile valley- nubia &amp; egypt-- preceded the hebrew scriptures &amp; even inspired many of said scriptures &amp; philosophies

[jah_yout]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Given that a man would take their children to church and thus expose them to MORALITY ???

How about brainwashing them, lying to them to get them to believe the fictions contained in the Bible and the inhumane practices ordered by God?

It also teaches them unqualified obedience to a &quot;celestial dictator whom they must both love and fear&quot; (Hitchens).

And of course, any five year old can understand the allegories, the metaphors, the pleading to an invisible being that goes on in a service, right?</div></div>

a lot of this is true...but mostly due to the abuse of religion...because there are other religions as well...capitalism &amp; communism can be religions also-- brainlock basically

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no better way to maintain that slave mentality over the generations than getting the kids started early in learning the &quot;fear of God&quot; knowing who their bosses are starting with the white man's God since African animalist deities or other belief structures must be inferior to the oppressor's God.</div></div>

if a man controls your god he controls you...but even when the africans gave spirituality &amp; the science of worship to the world, the europeans distorted the true history &amp; misinterpreted certain things as 'animalist' or other misnomers...

i do agree that a lot of africans have adopted distorted versions of religion- like christianity and islam--- to their detriment;

but at the end of the day religion is a belief system devotedly followed so it can shape thinking- whether for good or for bad...it's all up to the interpretation &amp; the people doing the interpretation...what can you do?
one man says god inspired him to feed the hungry &amp; clothe the naked...
another man says god told him to massacre a bunch of people...(sigh) aya sah

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Listen to what you're saying and try to understand the institutions of mental slavery you've signed up with.

It would be more moral to push heroin addiction.</div></div>

i wonder if a crazy person ever knows that they are crazy...wouldn't it be great to be able to get into another's mind?
or maybe not

[Tulip]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

I am not completely jaded, and I do not have any upbringing that would lead me to believe humans are innately evil. It is just that I thought most people wanted to do the right thing and have since decided I was mistaken.

No matter the religion for the most part, a lot of people don’t examine it too closely. That is why you have shrimp eating people with haircuts spazzing out over the sin they can pick out the Old Testament they are not committing. I find it disturbing that folks don’t spend more time sweeping around their own front door.

All that being said, some religious people still have more riding on at least trying to behave better than they are personally inclined to. Yes, there are flaws, but It seems to be a good thing or at a minimum better than nothing at all. In short, I see a place for religion even though it is not for me.

[johnnycakes]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

&quot;enslaved africans would have positively identified with the jews of the exodus...
after all the similarities are striking;
enslaved in a strange land for 400 years having fallen out of favor with creation due to their own folly...and a promise of redemption should that universal order (called god or such) be restored to primacy in their lives and therefore throughout humanity...'

j_y,

The Exodus, the parting of the Red Sea , the wandering in the desert for 40 years, God handing down the fifteen commandments at Mt. Sinai NEVER happened.

Recent and extensive searches by Israeli archaeologists have uncovered no evidence of any such thing and they were eager to prove it true.

Yes, the descendants of slaves would find the experiences that someone made up in that story comparable in some ways to the experience of slavery.

But.. God is not necessary nor the best avenue for the redemption of humanity.

Anything based on a fiction and/or deliberate lies starts off on shaky ground and for that matter for the descendants of slaves to go back to African religions would not be a step up either.

It's getting time to stand up as fully realized and self-assured human beings and the worship and fear of a fictitious &quot;God&quot; has not only has no place in the process, it is a hindrance to the advancement of the descendants of slaves and to the afflicted world. .

Time to grow up and leave the dragons, ogres and God(s) of our childhoods behind and go on to better things, a better world.

We will do far better without that pile of superstitious rubbish to drag around.

[johnnycakes]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

a lot of this is true...but mostly due to the abuse of religion...because there are other religions as well...capitalism &amp; communism can be religions also-- brainlock basically


j_y,

Please explain what you mean by communism so we can be on the same page and also how it can become a faith-based religion given its nature.



&quot;but at the end of the day religion is a belief system devotedly followed so it can shape thinking- whether for good or for bad...it's all up to the interpretation &amp; the people doing the interpretation...what can you do?
one man says god inspired him to feed the hungry &amp; clothe the naked...
another man says god told him to massacre a bunch of people...(sigh) aya sah&quot;

j_y,
I fully understand and agree with what you said (above) .
But think about it, if you given an instruction manual that told you to do contradictory things , you'd throw it out. If you have to call in experts and none of them can agree with what the Bible says or means, it is not a useful tool.

It's ancient, it's unclear, it's primitive in many of the societal proscriptions, it's often dull .
Take out all the &quot;and he begat Shem and Shem begat Moe and Moe begat Larry..&quot; stuff most of Leviticus and other worthless rules for sacrificing bulls and soion and you'd have about 100 pages of prose and poetry that COULD possibly serve as a guide for morality but why bother ? The Bible has long outlived its usefulness and as Hitchens pointed out man is intrinsically good and not evil and if we were evil from the get go why did an all powerful and omniscient God wait some 95,000 years to tell Moses and the crew that killing , lying, stealing were all no-nos. The truth is humans aren't by nature killers, nor liars, nor thieves . We do not need a celestial dictator to make us behave in a civil manner, to teach us right from wrong .
No, its time to grow up and leave that eternal parent and get down to the business of life just as we leave our birth parents except that as regards the parents it doesn't take 5000 years to be able to stand on our own two feet.

[johnnycakes]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

I am not completely jaded, and I do not have any upbringing that would lead me to believe humans are innately evil. It is just that I thought most people wanted to do the right thing and have since decided I was mistaken.

Tulip,
While I understand exactly what you mean above I have the view that people ARE innately good but are forced by those in power to do bad things. First and foremost is the enforced corporate state where you must be selfish to do well. Not working and still getting rich is getting over. Not caring or not having the time or the money to care about the less fortunate becomes the rule and not the exception as it should be would be.

Religion is another thing that poisons our societies and I do not need to go further because the examples of that toxicity is so widespread and well known.

IMO and in the opinions of many more, both those institutions have, at the worst about 20 years left for their existence and a new and brighter age for humanity.

If I may be contradictory, you must have faith (in humanity)

'No matter the religion for the most part, a lot of people don’t examine it too closely.&quot;

Tulip ,

Religion is often based on outmoded ways of thinking and of living . It doesn't do well to look too closely because if you do, you have to question so much as to make you lose your faith in it. religion is not a democracy.
It is rule from the top and rule that must not be questioned.


&quot;That is why you have shrimp eating people with haircuts spazzing out over the sin they can pick out the Old Testament they are not committing. I find it disturbing that folks don’t spend more time sweeping around their own front door&quot;

Tulip,
You need to rewrite/edit this or put it in other more easily understandable English for me..

&quot;All that being said, some religious people still have more riding on at least trying to behave better than they are personally inclined to. Yes, there are flaws, but It seems to be a good thing or at a minimum better than nothing at all. In short, I see a place for religion even though it is not for me.&quot;


Tulip,
As Hitchens asked: &quot;Can you name an act of kindness ordered by the Bible that would not be done in the absence of the Bible? and the answer is almost always no or answered by a long stony silence.


But when he asks : And how many acts of evil that were ordered by religions/God can you name that would not have been done in the absence of God and Bible/religion and everyone can rattle of a pile of those instances.

Religion is a drag on our development as a race is is less than useless, it is quite and mostly detrimental when you place it on the balance .

Read my replies to jah_yout . they answer similar questions.

and...
please do watch the Hitchens you tube video. I would love to hear your thoughts on it no matter which side you're on.

respect

[Tulip]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and...
please do watch the Hitchens you tube video. I would love to hear your thoughts on it no matter which side you're on.

respect </div></div>

I have to listen to it again and let it marinate a bit before I can say I have formed a true opinion on what he said. I do know that I found him quite humorous and would have to had to sit in the back if I had attended. It wasn't a case of laughing at him, but really being genuinely amused by the way he stated some things.

I do not think that people by nature don't know that murdering and what not is wrong, but I have not seen many care enough to avoid some of the lower level wrongs. There seem to be far more people consumed with getting what they want at any cost.

I think many need motivation to try to do right. If religion offers them this more than any other thing I can think of, then I say go for it. I have spent a lot of days in church for my first 17 years and saw the good, the bad, and the ugly. The glimmer of those who many folks put on a pedestal was lost well before I reached the double digits.

Still, I believe some things have a purpose. I can see that Hitchens has a high IQ. Everybody doesn't though. I get the feeling that his exposure to the mass has been low or he'd know not to have the same expectations of them that he has of himself.

At any rate, I said I'd have to let it marinate some before I come out with a thought-out opinion.

[johnnycakes]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

Tulip,
Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful response.
On Hitchens: Do watch the video again but deal with the substance of what he says rather than the extremely witty and humorous way he says it.

The immorality and illogic of accepting Christ's death to absolve our sins for instance.
Before I saw this video I would never have thought of the event in such a way but having learned what there is to learn in Hitch's revelations I can never think about the crucifixion in the old way of thinking of it.

As for Hitchens being too far above many intellectually, while that is certainly true, i think that he is plain enough in how he frames his argument, clear enough for 90% to understand.

For those who want to hear something similar from a black perspective the long series of &quot;Slave Sermons&quot; is excellent and certainly a series that is aimed at all black churchgoers.

Here's a link to #1 in the series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u5_fwLT_E4&amp;feature=related

walk good

[Wahalla]

Re: More Black Men in Church Equals Better Communities

I beleive that the gods were murdered 519 years ago... I also know my ancestors were slaves.. for better or worst many or most beleived in god and it sustained them.. They avatarised god into their own image and identified with the concepts.... many found solise in it... I struggled with this concept.. However as I worship, admire and thank my ancestors, I have to accept their beliefs.... Men I admired believed in god in some form or another.. Bogle, Sharpe, Tacky, Cudjoe, boukman, Toussaint, Dessaline, The Mahdi, Abdul El Krim, Avecinna, Omar Kyam.. I have long reconciled my personal disdain for the dead gods..yet find it equally offensive when otehr belittle peoples beleif in god as if that grants some high purpose...

On the 31st of July 1838.. Most Jamaicans went to church and thanked god for saving them...praised him...Then they headed for the hills to try their best... and I thank them for that...

So when I went to St Peter's Square in 2000 and the Pope blessed me.. I accept it as a blessing to my ancestors who saw him as god representative... Taking the micky out of my ancestors beleifs shows disrespect to them and to us....