Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

[franksterr]

Unbeknown-ed to them!!
Nearly all Christian prayers are ended with the word Amen, most of their songs and hymns are also....it is almost like an address but to whom or what?
What really does the word Amen means?
What is the history of this word?

Whats in a word, many it is said are saved just by the name Jesus Christ, when you call out a name, you are addressing your attention and intention to the owner of that name.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What really does the word Amen means?
What is the history of this word? </div></div>
The etymology of the word is simple enough - Hebrew. The meaning of the word is either &quot;so be it&quot; or &quot;truth&quot;. Which meaning is meant in any given sentence is determined by context. (as in any other word with multiple meanings)

The first meaning &quot;so be it&quot; and the second meaning &quot;truth&quot; are clos enough that when the word is used at the end of a prayer, it essentially means a strong positive affirmation... &quot;That's the truth. So let it/may it be. Truly. Yes.&quot;

The Hebrew pronunciation is ah-MEN; many non-Hebrew speaking English-speakers, however, say it as AY-men.

It is required of Jews to say &quot;Amen&quot; at various points in Jewish liturgy.

It is common for Christians to say &quot;Amen&quot; at various points in their liturgies, as well... but I don't think it's exactly <span style="font-style: italic">required</span>. (not that I know of, anyhow - and certainly not in Catholic liturgy)

[franksterr]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What really does the word Amen means?
What is the history of this word? </div></div>
The etymology of the word is simple enough - Hebrew. The meaning of the word is either &quot;so be it&quot; or &quot;truth&quot;. Which meaning is meant in any given sentence is determined by context. (as in any other word with multiple meanings)</div></div>

I disagree with the etymology of the word, I think the Hebrew people got it from Egypt when they sojourned there....
If &quot;Amen&quot; means &quot;so be it&quot; in Hebrew what then is &quot;&quot;She'y'h'ye &quot;&quot;?
I know that what you say is what is taught by the officials of religion....I am questioning that idea.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The first meaning &quot;so be it&quot; and the second meaning &quot;truth&quot; are clos enough that when the word is used at the end of a prayer, it essentially means a strong positive affirmation... &quot;That's the truth. So let it/may it be. Truly. Yes.&quot;</div></div>

When used in Egypt it is used as the prefix of a Pharaohs name or that of a God. In Egypt it is most often used as a Name of A God.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Hebrew pronunciation is ah-MEN; many non-Hebrew speaking English-speakers, however, say it as AY-men.

It is required of Jews to say &quot;Amen&quot; at various points in Jewish liturgy.

It is common for Christians to say &quot;Amen&quot; at various points in their liturgies, as well... but I don't think it's exactly <span style="font-style: italic">required</span>. (not that I know of, anyhow - and certainly not in Catholic liturgy) </div></div>

So you never heard of it being a name?

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

I gave you the etymology of the word.

I know where you're going and you're wrong. I knew where you were going before I decided to answer you. Wrong word with a different etymology, franksterr.

I gave you the etymology of the word <span style="font-style: italic">&amp;#1488;&amp;#1464;&amp;#1502;&amp;#146 1;&amp;#1503</span>;

I gave you the etymology of the Hebrew word &quot;amen&quot; It's <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> the same as the Egyptian &quot;Ammon&quot; or &quot;Ammen&quot;.


ETA: Phooey. Thought I could type the Hebrew word into this post. I can't.

[franksterr]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I gave you the etymology of the word.</div></div>

Yes that I know, but is it true....that is my quest.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know where you're going and you're wrong. I knew where you were going before I decided to answer you. Wrong word with a different etymology, franksterr.</div></div>

How so?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I gave you the etymology of the word <span style="font-style: italic">&amp;#1488;&amp;#1464;&amp;#1502;&amp;#146 1;&amp;#1503</span>;</div></div>
yeah that is difficult
[img]&amp;#1488;&amp;#1464;&amp;#1502;&amp;#1461;&amp;# 1503;[/img]

Some Talmudic scholars believe that the etymology of the word is AMN-Amen an acronym for three Hebrew words
1. Ay (one of the names of God)
2. Melech (king)
3. Ne'eman (faithful).
which correlates with what a Pharaoh is a God King Priest(faithful)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I gave you the etymology of the Hebrew word &quot;amen&quot; It's <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> the same as the Egyptian &quot;Ammon&quot; or &quot;Ammen&quot;.</div></div>

Why because it has a extra &quot;M&quot; or an &quot;O&quot;?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ETA: Phooey. Thought I could type the Hebrew word into this post. I can't. </div></div>
Yeah that can be a problem
But thanks you have sent my research in a new direction love

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I gave you the etymology of the word.</div></div>

Yes that I know, but is it true....that is my quest.

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Yes.</span></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know where you're going and you're wrong. I knew where you were going before I decided to answer you. Wrong word with a different etymology, franksterr.</div></div>

How so?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I gave you the etymology of the word <span style="font-style: italic">&amp;#1488;&amp;#1464;&amp;#1502;&amp;#146 1;&amp;#1503</span>;</div></div>
yeah that is difficult
[img]&amp;#1488;&amp;#1464;&amp;#1502;&amp;#1461;&amp;# 1503;[/img]

Some Talmudic scholars believe that the etymology of the word is AMN-Amen an acronym for three Hebrew words
1. Ay (one of the names of God)
2. Melech (king)
3. Ne'eman (faithful).
which correlates with what a Pharaoh is a God King Priest(faithful)

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">No. You are wrong... or possibly simply mistaken, I tried to show it to you, but can't do so without using the Hebrew text to show the Hebrew word itself.</span></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I gave you the etymology of the Hebrew word &quot;amen&quot; It's <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> the same as the Egyptian &quot;Ammon&quot; or &quot;Ammen&quot;.</div></div>

Why because it has a extra &quot;M&quot; or an &quot;O&quot;?

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">No. That's merely transliterated into English letters. Like I just said above, I tried to show you the Hebrew word, but sadly, can't on this forum. The actual Hebrew word is different from the other words, as any linguistics scholar knows.</span></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ETA: Phooey. Thought I could type the Hebrew word into this post. I can't. </div></div>
Yeah that can be a problem
But thanks you have sent my research in a new direction love

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Enjoy your new direction. Please don't bother me with it, though. I'll leave it all to you enjoy by yourself.</span></span></div></div>

[franksterr]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?



Simply provide the link and I will see it on its own web page.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

No, that's modern and has vowels that may or many not have been the vowels intended in the ancient word.

One can't hotlink to a torah or an ancient prayer text. Sorry. The Internet is not the end-all and the be-all of everything. Not only do I not possess the virtue of patience; I am also too lazy to bother to work for somebody whom I know damn well is no real scholar and won't learn from it even if I did the work. Sinful... but true. Your mind is already made up; Nothing at all will change it. You just aren't worth the effort to me.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

If you remove the two vowels from what you posted, you'll have the correct word.

[franksterr]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, that's modern and has vowels that may or many not have been the vowels intended in the ancient word.</div></div>

Very very True.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One can't hotlink to a torah or an ancient prayer text. Sorry. The Internet is not the end-all and the be-all of everything.</div></div>
Never underestimate the internet.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not only do I not possess the virtue of patience; I am also too lazy to bother to work for somebody whom I know damn well is no real scholar and won't learn from it even if I did the work. Sinful... but true. </div></div>

If only it was a labor of love for you as it is for me, then maybe you would find patience and abiding interest inherent in the pursuit. Lets not dialogue with the intend to convert But in a sense of rivalry to share what we have found.
Yes I am No scholar...
How do you know that I wont learn from it,
What proof do you demand as such....is the only proof that I have learned something is to accept your view?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Your mind is already made up; Nothing at all will change it. You just aren't worth the effort to me.</div></div>

That's not only cold its bitter....have I hurt you in some way?

[franksterr]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you remove the two vowels from what you posted, you'll have the correct word. </div></div>



You say the etymology of the word is Hebraic &quot;The etymology of the word is simple enough - Hebrew.&quot; could you give me the link supporting that?

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If only it was a labor of love for you as it is for me, then maybe you would find patience and abiding interest inherent in the pursuit. Lets not dialogue with the intend to convert But in a sense of rivalry to share what we have found.
Yes I am No scholar...
How do you know that I wont learn from it,
What proof do you demand as such....is the only proof that I have learned something is to accept your view? </div></div>
No, I can't say that I demand proof of your having learned something, since that'd be rather hard to prove without my accepting your word for it. I definitely do not require your acceptance of my viewpoint as proof that you learned something. I'm not Archie Bunker!

I merely do not trust you, I guess. I suppose when we come right down to it, I just don't trust you, and I just don't believe anything you say. And the worst part of making such a rude (and potentially hurtful) statement like this is that I can't even tell you <span style="font-style: italic">why</span> I feel that way! I just do! I always feel as if I must put my strongest guard up when around you, franksterr. I don't know why that is. I wasn't even aware of it until just now, actually. I always get the 'attack him first before he attacks me again' feeling... even though I can't point to a single time where you actually attacked me personally. I just always get the feeling that you've hurt me in the past - although if you asked me to name one time, I couldn't.

I do not know why I feel like this towards you franksterr. I am sorry. I wish I could say something better than &quot;I don't know&quot;. This sounds stupider and stupider... Wow.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> [Witchy] Your mind is already made up; Nothing at all will change it. You just aren't worth the effort to me.</div></div>

That's not only cold its bitter....have I hurt you in some way?
</div></div>
See above.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Amen...are Christians worshipping a hiddden God ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You say the etymology of the word is Hebraic &quot;The etymology of the word is simple enough - Hebrew.&quot; could you give me the link supporting that? </div></div>
I said Hebrew, specifically... but Mr Witchy has sat down to ask what's been shaking on Jcom this week. I told him. He says that I'm wrong too. He says the etymology of the word &quot;amen&quot; is <span style="font-weight: bold">semitic</span>, but older than the Hebrew language is.

Hold on. He's looking about the 'Net to see if he can find a link for you.

[WitchyOoman]

Amen - a Hebrew word

Mr Witchy can't find what he wants on th 'Net (proof) - but he points out that any good scholar knows that because the word &quot;amen&quot;/&quot;amin&quot;/&quot;omin&quot; is the same in Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, and Syriac, it obviously predates the break of these languages from the older mother language.

Hebrew - amen (ah-men)
Arabic - amin (ah-meen)
Syriac - amin (ah-meen)
Aramaic - omin (oh-meen)

Find the definition of the word &quot;amen&quot; here .

Scroll down to &quot;Etymology&quot; on this page for some substantiation of the above info. on the etymology of th word being Hebrew in origin.

I don't know where to find info on the other languages that is in English for you. You don't read Arabic or Syriac, do you? I know you don't read Hebrew or Aramaic.

The root word (in Hebrew letters) is aleph-mem-nun.


It is entirely possible - we shall never know - that the words &quot;amen&quot; and &quot;Amon&quot; (as in Amon-Ra) were homonyms. We do not know because the languages were written without vowels. &quot;Amen' was written as alph-nun-mem in Hebrew. &quot;Amon&quot; was written beginning with the Arabic letter yodh (also the same Hebrew letter yud). This proves that they were two different words. You can find this on this page, under &quot;Etymology&quot;... the second to last and the last sentences of that paragraph. After all, &quot;pair&quot; and &quot;pare&quot; and &quot;pear&quot; all sound the same - they are homonyms - but they each have entirely different meanings from the other words.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Amen - a Hebrew word




(reading from right to left - alph, mem, nun... a, m, n)