does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

[evanovitch]

ungodliness, visits suffering on his fellow man? i just got an email from Billy Graham organization with the title being "y does God allow suffering?....

i know people love the catchphrase and statements to the effect that if u dont go thru the lows u naw go appreciate di highs but i for one believe that man is the reason for suffering n bringing God into the equation is a crux...

if u believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of the OT n if u believe in the Gospel , i.e the Good News, then u believe in the new life of the example of Jesus..u believe in the new choices u should make...n ur walk to Holiness should make u abhor the visitation of suffering on ur fellow human whether they r a believer or not....

so if a non believer does wrong, is it God who allows the wrong to be done...u have ur child n bring him up in a good household...wants for nothing...has good teachings in all the facets of that word...said child commits a murder...r u responsible? u showed the two avenues of choice, the choice and ability to make choices that each wants in the same way the choice of God's Way is available...so if the child makes the wrong choice is it that u the parent allowed the suffering to come about?????

[Lilith]

Re: does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

I have always believed that suffering is nothing to do with God. Life events occur as a consequence of of our actions, and by chance...how we understand deal with it all depends on our faith. I am an atheist, by the way.

Regarding children, I think it is difficult. Children do things that they know to be wrong from an early age. I think it is inevitable that parents who have tried to raise their children well will always feel responsible when those children act contrary to that. But we all choose, and we have to take responsibility for our choices and live with the consequences.

[evanovitch]

Re: does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lilith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always believed that suffering is nothing to do with God. Life events occur as a consequence of of our actions, and by chance...how we understand deal with it all depends on our faith. I am an atheist, by the way.

Regarding children, I think it is difficult. Children do things that they know to be wrong from an early age. I think it is inevitable that parents who have tried to raise their children well will always feel responsible when those children act contrary to that. But we all choose, and we have to take responsibility for our choices and live with the consequences. </div></div>

the children example was to illustrate how we r with God..we r His children etc etc n have His example ...but u got the same result...we have to take responsibility

[jah_yout]

Re: does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

god allows whatever humans allow

[Lilith]

Re: does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

Oops. I get you now.

[rudemonk]

Re: does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ungodliness, visits suffering on his fellow man? i just got an email from Billy Graham organization with the title being &quot;y does God allow suffering?....

i know people love the catchphrase and statements to the effect that if u dont go thru the lows u naw go appreciate di highs but i for one believe that man is the reason for suffering n bringing God into the equation is a crux...

if u believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of the OT n if u believe in the Gospel , i.e the Good News, then u believe in the new life of the example of Jesus..u believe in the new choices u should make...n ur walk to Holiness should make u abhor the visitation of suffering on ur fellow human whether they r a believer or not....

so if a non believer does wrong, is it God who allows the wrong to be done...u have ur child n bring him up in a good household...wants for nothing...has good teachings in all the facets of that word...said child commits a murder...r u responsible? u showed the two avenues of choice, the choice and ability to make choices that each wants in the same way the choice of God's Way is available...so if the child makes the wrong choice is it that u the parent allowed the suffering to come about????? </div></div>

but you must consider the full moral and ethical scope of the question. no man is responsible for his children's sins, or sons for the father's. However, if you have the ability to prevent crimes and atrocities and do not, you are morally and ethically culpable, especially if you had foreknowledge of said crimes.

That defense of God does not work, eventually.

[johnnycakes]

Re: does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

Neither for that matter was Christ responsible for our sins nor could he rationally have our sins forgiven by his death . That takes away our personal responsibility for what we do.

It is called scapegoating. An ancient practice whereby villagers piled all their sins on a goat and drove it out in the desert to die of hunger and thirst.

It's a preposterous, illogical and and immoral belief whether it is a goat or &quot;an eccentric preacher&quot; killed in the primitive Middle East.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo82sgrSAYg

[SmoothOperator]

Re: does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

What about children born with congenital diseases, who suffer greatly and die very young? What is their sin? Yes, some of our suffering is our fault - lifestyle choices about what we put in our bodies and who we associate with etc. But a lot of suffering is inexplicable. Like this young lady at work who was driving home one day and a drunk driver cross the median resulting in a head on crash that left her paralyzed from the neck down unable to care for herself or support her young daughter. Or natural disasters that take out an entire village leaving a handful of survivors to pick up the pieces and deal not only with the loss of property but of loved ones. Or people who live a life of service and in old age are stricken with debilitating cancer and dementia and spend the last years of their life in great pain and in a mental fog. Life can be brutal and harsh - people like to think that bad, very bad things can't happen to good people but sometimes it does. The wind blows where it blows.

[rudemonk]

Re: does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TreyJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about children born with congenital diseases, who suffer greatly and die very young? What is their sin? Yes, some of our suffering is our fault - lifestyle choices about what we put in our bodies and who we associate with etc. But a lot of suffering is inexplicable. Like this young lady at work who was driving home one day and a drunk driver cross the median resulting in a head on crash that left her paralyzed from the neck down unable to care for herself or support her young daughter. Or natural disasters that take out an entire village leaving a handful of survivors to pick up the pieces and deal not only with the loss of property but of loved ones. Or people who live a life of service and in old age are stricken with debilitating cancer and dementia and spend the last years of their life in great pain and in a mental fog. Life can be brutal and harsh - people like to think that bad, very bad things can't happen to good people but sometimes it does. The wind blows where it blows. </div></div>

there is a theodicy to the logical problem of evil, but it really starts to fall apart when considering natural evil.

just looking at nature really shrinks the zone in which the big guy can exist and still be valued by the truth claims of many of his believers.

about the only logical out I can think of is to give limit to what others would prefer to keep limitless- not sure why that is so important to people except that is what they have been inculcated to believe.

If there is a God, that being can not be omnipotent, omniscient, nor omni-benevolent...not and be reconciled with what we can observe.

[franksterr]

Re: does God allow sufffering or is it that man in his

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ungodliness, visits suffering on his fellow man? i just got an email from Billy Graham organization with the title being &quot;y does God allow suffering?....

i know people love the catchphrase and statements to the effect that if u dont go thru the lows u naw go appreciate di highs but i for one believe that man is the reason for suffering n bringing God into the equation is a crux...

if u believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of the OT n if u believe in the Gospel , i.e the Good News, then u believe in the new life of the example of Jesus..u believe in the new choices u should make...n ur walk to Holiness should make u abhor the visitation of suffering on ur fellow human whether they r a believer or not....

so if a non believer does wrong, is it God who allows the wrong to be done...u have ur child n bring him up in a good household...wants for nothing...has good teachings in all the facets of that word...said child commits a murder...r u responsible? u showed the two avenues of choice, the choice and ability to make choices that each wants in the same way the choice of God's Way is available...so if the child makes the wrong choice is it that u the parent allowed the suffering to come about????? </div></div>

The God of the Old testament definately causes suffering, there is no denying that.....but then that is a matter of perspective or how one defines God.

If one sees God as a singular individual being....then yes.
If one sees God as a singular totality of all that is.....then no.

Now A buddhist would say that all suffering is first a result of ignorance and second one of attachment.....nothing to do with God