Does the Black Church Keep Women Single, Lonely and Vulnerable?

[Emperah]

[Tropicana]

This topic has my name all over it so I can't bypass it. I must comment. In fact, I almost posted the article interviewing the author here a while back.

The video doesn't really address the issue but the author has been interviewed about this issue in the past. I will post this in a second.

With respect to the video, I have never been part of a Black congregation except for when I lived in Jamaica and in the USA. I have rarely attended services at Black churches in Canada. I can't really comment from a Black church perspective except to say that there have been abuses in churches Black and white. I have posted numerous threads on here about men who are attend church regularly and who look good on paper but they are either racist or morph into horn toads. So I agree, women need to not just pay attention to the label but see if a guy walks the talk. If he is pressuring for sex within the first couple of dates, run don't walk to the nearest exit even if he is supposedly a pillar in the church.

Also I agree with the author that people need to read and study the Bible for themselves, individually and in small groups. They should not be relying on the pastor to spoonfeed them and they should not be blindly taking the pastor's word for everything.

[Tropicana]

Okay here is what she had to say in the other interview:

Does the black church keep black women single?

In raising the issue, Cooper ignited a public conversation about a topic that is increasingly getting attention in the black community and beyond. Oprah Winfrey, among others, recently hosted a show about single black women and relationships after a Yale University study found that 42 percent of African-American women in the United States were unmarried.



"Black women are interpreting the scriptures too literally. They want a man to which they are 'equally yoked' -- a man that goes to church five times a week and every Sunday just like they do," Cooper said in a recent interview.

Okay if that is how Black women are interpreting "equally yoked" they are off tracked. Equally yoked means being married to a believer who lives a lifestyle that is consistent with the teachings of Christ. It has nothing to do with going to church 5X a week.

"If they meet a black man that is not in church, they are automatically eliminated as a potential suitor. This is just limiting their dating pool."

Yes it is but the Bible makes it clear that we should marry believers. It's tough to do as there are far more women in the church than men. Is it realistic for 2013? I am not sure. If a woman definitely wants to get married, it may not be realistic. We are to count the cost when we become believers and this may be one of the costs. I don't think the church really makes women aware of this when they become believers. They need to really weigh the decision carefully and not take it lightly. I have seen Black Christian women end up in fornication and even having children out of wedlock I believe because they did not count the cost and they were not made aware of how tough and lonely it would be at times. A more well informed decision may have prevented that.

The traditional structure and dynamics of black churches, mostly led by black men, convey submissive attitudes to women, Cooper says, encouraging them to be patient -- instead of getting up and going after what they want.

I don't think this is a church thing. I know Jamaican parents don't encourage their daughters to "run down man". Instead, emphasis is placed on getting an education and career. I don't really thing West Indian parents stress the importance of marriage or the need to take the initiative in taking steps to find a partner. White parents do and White women are scooping up Black men in droves.

Nearly ninety percent of African-Americans express "certain belief in God" and 55 percent say they "interpret scripture literally," according to the 2009 Pew Research Center study "A Religious Portrait of African-Americans."
Dr. Boyce Watkins, a professor at Syracuse University and advocate for African-American issues, responded to Cooper's article online. Though he applauded Cooper's courage to voice her opinion , he agreed -- and disagreed -- with her.
"I don't think the church keeps black women single," Watkins says. "But I do agree that some black churches teach women that they must only date a man that goes to church regularly."

The Bible makes it clear that we are to marry believers. The problem is not that the women are attempting to follow what the Bible teaches. The problem is that there are too many Black men turning their back on the Christian faith for 2 main reasons:

1. The racism among believers makes them perceive the Christian faith as Eurocentric and the racial incidents fuel doubt the truth of the Bible.
2. Some are more interested in rooksin as many women as possible without commitment and this is not consitent with being a Christian. At least these men aren't being hypocrites.

I think another issue is that the depth of teaching is problematic in many Black churches so when young men reach the age when they are questioning and having doubts, they are not getting the answers they need and they reject the faith in which they were raised.

[Tropicana]

Watkins, who is African-American and whose father is a Southern Baptist minister, described his interactions with southern women who are devout churchgoers. "I am a male and I know that I will treat a woman well, but I have been rejected many times because I don't thump a bible with me everywhere that I go."
All in the numbers
One of biggest reasons black women are single, Cooper says, is because of a lack of black men in the church. According to the PEW study, "African-American men are significantly more likely than women to be unaffiliated with any religion (16 percent vs. 9 percent). Nearly one-in-five men say they have no formal religious affiliation."

Agreed. White men in the church are not inclined to marry Black women and there are not enough Black Christian men to go around.

Watkins believes the social structure of the church keeps black men from attending. "Those appealing, high-testosterone guys have a hard time getting into the 'Follow the leader, give me your money, and listen to what I have to say' attitude."
"Many of us have a difficult time submitting to the pastor who is just another man."

And they have a low tolerance for the hypocrisy and abuse.

The male pastor, Cooper says, is the "alpha male" for many black women. Over-reverence for the pastor - or any religious figure for that matter - creates barriers for the black man, she says, because he feels like he must compete for the No. 1 spot in a black woman's heart.
"It doesn't make you more attractive if your life is filled with these 'other' men," Cooper says. "If they feel like they have to compete, you are not going to be interesting because you're not feeding his ego in the way it needs to be fed."
Mark K. Forston, son of a black preacher in Forest Park, Georgia, says some black women "put their pastor on this pedestal and have a large amount of faith in him because he is a living source of salvation."
Sometimes women even focus their romantic feelings on the pastor, says Forston. "Regardless if he's married or not, sometimes human desires will transcend beyond certain parameters and that's dangerous territory. Pastors are humans just like anybody else."

I don't have enough experience in Black churches to comment on this. I have not seen this dynamic in predominantly White churches.

The Rev. Renita J. Weems, a bible scholar who holds a degree in theology from Princeton, strongly disagrees with Cooper about why many black women remain single and says she is reinforcing one message: "It's the black woman's fault."


"To claim that women are sitting in their chair getting heated about watching their preacher strut across the pulpit is illogical," Weems says. "The black church is not a Sunday morning sex drama."

This is ridiculous...who is sitting in the pew getting hot over pastor. Never heard of such a thing.

Weems, who is African-American and has written several books on women's spirituality, has her own criticisms of the black church. The literal interpretation of certain scriptures can lead to subjugating women, Weems says. However, positive scripture messages, about love and justice, do exist and can be used to empower women rather than keep them "single and lonely."
Weems says Cooper fails to examine deeper threads. "What the black church does and what religion does is helps you create core values for your life and allows you to see what you appreciate in others.
"The reason why black women who go to black churches are not married is because they are looking for certain values in a man," Weems says. "It is not the church that keeps them single, but the simple fact that good values are lacking in some of our men."

Agree. The women who are opting to whine up and skin out in clubs are not having success in getting married either. The men are just using them for sex and dumping them.

Choose or lose the church
Cooper says her goal is to empower black women. If their strategy for meeting men is failing, Cooper offers two suggestions: Find another church or leave-and go where the boys go: tailgates, bars and clubs.

Tailgates yes. Bars and clubs no. Most of the men there are just looking for sex.

"Black women need to open their eyes. You want to know the reason why the black man isn't in church? Because he left church to go to the Sunday football game," Cooper says. "Going to these sites is discouraged in the black church because these places are seen as places where 'sin dwells.' But if women are compassionate, as the bible preaches they should be, then they need to be more open about the men they choose to date and where they might meet them."
"I'm not against religion, or against the church, I'm against women limiting their choices and putting themselves in a box because they do what their church tells them to do," Cooper says.

Likely our criteria is unrealistic...I know I have been somewhat guilty of that.

Weems disagrees. "Telling black women that they should spend their two hours on Sunday elsewhere and drive them away to go to the bar to find a date is not helpful to our communities."

Agree.

"Black women are the backbones of their community and without them a lot of charitable work would not get done, social justice on the ground would be diminished and outreach to poor people would be severed."
Patty Davis, the long time churchgoer in Georgia, says all the arguments over what the church preaches miss the point. What truly matters, she says, are women's motives.
"The real question is: What are you coming to church for?" she says. "To feed your spirit? Or your carnal desires?"
The church's effect on the romantic lives of black women cannot be gleaned from a mathematical equation or a select bible passage, Davis says.
"It is a woman's own actions and decisions that will determine the outcome of her love life, not the church's," Davis says. "Because the last time I checked, the church ain't no dating service."

This is part of the problem. The church is not doing enough to help singles form healthy relationships. They need to do more. If there is a shortage of men, pastors should be reaching out, doing joint activities and workshops for singles with other churches in the area.

The church is also not doing enough to educate men about Godly relationships and what they should be seeking in partners so they are subsribing to the unGodly standards of the world.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/08/10/black.church.women.single/index.html

[Tropicana]

[Wahalla]

simple logic... more man deh ah rum bar dan church.....if unno wanta ah man guh wey dere is more man... rum bar....deh res is just noise...

[Emperah]

dem have some funny man a de tea house tuh

[Tropicana]

simple logic... more man deh ah rum bar dan church.....if unno wanta ah man guh wey dere is more man... rum bar....deh res is just noise...

With that logic...we should be frequenting lap dancing parlours and bawdy houses ....they are also crawling with men.

I must say one of the few times in my life I have been to a pub (I had called ahead to pick up Shepherd's Pie for takeout to satifsy a late night craving ) I had trouble even finding parking. the place was PACKED!!!! With the place some men frequent, no wonder dem hook up with strippah and cocktail waitress. Den when de ooman dem run to de tabloids fe chat, dem a bawl. Look what Sean Paul is going through with the blonde

I think the title of the book and the thread should be "Are the Base Instincts of Many Me Keeping women Single, Lonely, and Vulnerable?". Perhaps I should write it.



Yes the churches have their flaws and I have posted about them numerous times. But the rum bars and lap dancing parlours aren't paradises of perfection either.

[Wahalla]

I never bring lap dancing clubs into it... if u want guh deh gwane... that is a target rich enviroment

Best place to pick up women male stripper show.... Target saturated enviroment... and I mean saturaterd

[Tropicana]

I never bring lap dancing clubs into it... if u want guh deh gwane... that is a target rich enviroment

It's all the same to me. A man who hangs out in the bar, lap dancing parlour, pub, or strip joint would not be a good prospect. Ditto for those who play golf on Sunday mornings.

No mi not calling NO names.

[j-can]

It's all the same to me. A man who hangs out in the bar, lap dancing parlour, pub, or strip joint would not be a good prospect. Ditto for those who play golf on Sunday mornings.

No mi not calling NO names.

What's wrong with playing golf on sundays?

[Tropicana]

Sunday morning instead of going to church?

Reminds me of a dilemma I faced with my son a number of years ago. He was riding and got to the stage where he was competing in horse shows. The shows were once a month on Sunday morning. Well we had a later service on Sunday mornings so it wasn't an issue the first couple of times. As he got more advanced, his classes were later in the morning and we ended up missing church a couple of time. I became concerned about sending my son the wrong message by having him miss church and Sunday School once a month to compete in horse shows so I discussed it with the pastor. He agreed this was sending the wrong message....that church and Sunday School are just for when there is nothing better to do. He said he was facing the same issue with other families w.r.t. hockey and soccer. We had not run into that issue yet but it reminded me in future years to make sure on the registration to indicated that he was not available for Sunday morning games or practices and requesting that they place him on a team with that in mind. He eventually lost interest in riding but the leagues honoured my request for soccer and hockey. Ditto for part-time jobs....he made it clear that he was not available for Sunday morning shifts.

Do we sometimes send boys the wrong message and, as a result, when they grow up do they view church as a low priority?

Yes the church has it's problems. The issue here as far as I see it, is not with the women. It is with the men who are rejecting the values with which they were raised. Also, I don't think that attending church and seeing nothing but women and children helps. They need to see Black families going to church together or it sends the wrong message. They are more likely to see that in a multi-racial church for some reason...not sure why.

[FLUFFY]

That's why alot of women resort to online dating. I believe that if you do not put yourself out there, then how will a King find his Queen?

[Suesumba]

Sunday morning instead of going to church?

people HAVE to go to church to be religious? or serve god? the church has brainwashed a lot of black women in a lot of ways. church for most black women is the social event of their week. where else are they gonna get to wear that cheezy hat and matronly overdone frock?

[Emperah]

ya ovastep yuh bounds now a chat suh bout dem frock as dem a de bride a christ