What the Bible Really Says About Slavery

[Tropicana]

diss mekk mii laff

moses woo freed imm peeps fram slaveree den tunn runn ann writinn bout da proper way fe treat slaves ann yuh chattinn bout kulture ann realitees aff imm day widdout seeinn hypokkkteekal sinting

Okay since slavery was a reality of the day do you feel it would have been better to be silent on the matter and have people mistreat those who worked for them?

Also, don't confuse slavery in Bible times with what we know as slavery in the Caribbean. It was closer to indentured servitude and in many instances voluntary to a degree....which doesn't make it any more palatable.....but it was different.

Reminds me of what used to happen here in Toronto. Impoverished White families with lots of children would have their oldest daughter work as a servant for rich families from the age of 13. I forget what the position was called. The conditions were harsh. If you go to Casa Loma, for example, you can see the tiny rooms in which they stayed. The young girl would have to be up before everyone to light the fires in the fireplaces in all the rooms and she would be the last one to bed as she would be stuck washing all of the pots, a nasty job that no one else wanted to do. Pay was low, she would get very little sleep but compared to staying at home at least she would be guaranteed 3 meals, a day her own bed, and not having to live in a rat infested hovel. Which was better? Neither choice was palatable but these were the realities. This was during the 1920s, not thousands of years ago...not sure when these conditions ended. Of course we also know that immigrants ended up working as domestic servants in Canada and NUFF Jamaican women came to Canada under what was called "the domestic scheme".

Same thing happened in England. People were time limited "in servitude" to escape poverty or as a punishment for crimes. Some pirates ended up in the Caribbean as indentured servants while the others from their vessel were strung up on the gallows. For sure this type of servitude continued into the 1920s and 1930s. We've all seen Downton Abbey and Gosford Park. Not sure when it officially ended but there is evidence that it still continues in the UK in some form.

http://theconversation.com/to-end-domestic-servitude-first-fix-immigration-policy-20663

and

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/22/abolition-slave-trade-slavery-three-women

and this

http://www.ippr.org/articles/56/8091/service-not-servitude-protecting-the-rights-of-domestic-workers

In June (2011), the UK government abstained from the ILO Convention on Decent Work for Domestic Workers, joining Sudan, Panama, El Salvador, Malaysia, Singapore, the Czech Republic and Thailand. Ashamed that the government would choose such allies to help their attempt to frustrate effective protection of basic employment rights for this group of workers around the world, I called a debate in parliament. In that debate, employment relations minister Ed Davey argued that the convention was not needed in the UK, as we already have a legal framework of employment rights and protections for domestic workers.

Servitude and slavery were and are harsh realities of human existence that continue to this day. So do you feel that laws should not have been passed and should not be passed to prevent harsh treatment and abuse?

That is exactly what Moses did in Leviticus...the book of law for the Jewish nation.

I notice that you and some other members of the Koolaid Krew expect perfection. Newsflash it ain't going to happen any time soon. Good luck trying to find it. Reminds me of the hive mind among the Borg collective on Star Trek.

[Tropicana]

Jah_yout...that is total garbage. I have many times on here posted the same Bible vs from translations of the Bible before and after the KJV. There was no difference in meaning to the KJV.

Also I started a thread and threw a challenge out to the hive mind a.k.a. Koolaid Krew to post the verses in the Bible that you feel had been significantly altered in KJV along side other translation.

http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/showthread.php?75886-For-those-who-say-the-different-versions-of-the-Bible-Say-Different-things

The silence was deafening....not one example was produced.

So stop just parroting what the Borg Kings have said and do your own thinking and research.

[Tropicana]

Back to the topic at hand. No one has been able to produce ANY verses that say that the Bible approves of slavery. So I suggest onoo stop chatting rubbish and spreading lies and propaganda. It is most unbecoming, especially in men.

[blugiant]

Back to the topic at hand. No one has been able to produce ANY verses that say that the Bible approves of slavery. So I suggest onoo stop chatting rubbish and spreading lies and propaganda. It is most unbecoming, especially in men.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)


When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)


Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)



The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

[blugiant]

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.”

—Ephesians 6:5-6


foolisness dat dem teach blakk dat sum eediat still a regurgeetaste itt

[Emperah]

but it nuh mean de same ting it is different

[Emperah]

Back to the topic at hand. No one has been able to produce ANY verses that say that the Bible approves of slavery. So I suggest onoo stop chatting rubbish and spreading lies and propaganda. It is most unbecoming, especially in men.

even de tree blind mice cyan si bettah den dis, an ha de hawt fi chat bout kool aid

[jah_yout]

Jah_yout...that is total garbage. I have many times on here posted the same Bible vs from translations of the Bible before and after the KJV. There was no difference in meaning to the KJV.

Also I started a thread and threw a challenge out to the hive mind a.k.a. Koolaid Krew to post the verses in the Bible that you feel had been significantly altered in KJV along side other translation.

http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/showthread.php?75886-For-those-who-say-the-different-versions-of-the-Bible-Say-Different-things

The silence was deafening....not one example was produced.

So stop just parroting what the Borg Kings have said and do your own thinking and research.

how can truth ever be "garbage"?
bible-thumpers need to grow up and realize that some holy pages with words written on them did not fall out of the sky one day. "the bible" is a collection of writings written by men----
people call it the word of god, but anything said or written is the word of god--- if "god" as seen by the hypnotized masses who practice religion is the all-powerful third-party creator and pre-determinator of men's destinies

[Tropicana]

Nice try blugiant....but you have missed the mark. The type of slavery that existed in the Caribbean (chattel slavery) did not even exist during the time of Moses so you are quoting verses randomly apart from their historical contex.:

The Bible denounces slavery as sin and goes as far to put slave traders in the same boat as murderers (1 Timothy 1:10)

1 Timothy 1

Now we know that rthe law is good, if one uses it lawfully,⁹understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,¹⁰the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,¹¹in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Back in the days of Leviticus slavery was sanctioned due to economic reasons. Back then, there were no such thing as bankruptcy laws so people would sell themselves into slavery to rectify debts. A craftsman could use his skills to literally "pay off" a debt. Or a convicted thief could make restitution by serving as a slave. (Exodus 22:3)

The Bible recognizes the reality of slavery, but it never promotes the practice of slavery. It was the biblical principles that ultimately led to the overthrow of slavery, both in ancient Israel and in the United States.

One has to only go far as to think why the Jews left Egypt in the first place to see God's view of slavery. It took some years in America to wake up to the realization of biblical truth that all people are created by God with innate equality. (Genesis 1:27, Acts 17:26-28, Galatians 3:28)

Chattel slavery did not exist under the Law of Moses. There was no form of servitude under the Law of Moses which placed them in the legal position of chattel slaves. Legislation maintained kinship rights (Exodus 21:3, 9, Leviticus 25:41, 47-49, 54, providing for Hebrew indentured servants), marriage rights (Exodus 21:4, 10-11, providing for a Hebrew daughter contracted into a marriage), personal legal rights relating to physical protection and protection from breach of contract (Exodus 21:8, providing for a Hebrew daughter contracted into a marriage, Exodus 21:20-21, 26-27, providing for Hebrew or foreign servants of any kind, and Leviticus 25:39-41, providing for Hebrew indentured servants), freedom of movement, and access to liberty (Exodus 21:8, 11, providing for a Hebrew daughter contracted into a marriage, Leviticus 25:40-45, 48, 54, providing for Hebrew intendured servants, and Deuteronomy 15:1, 12; 23:15, providing for Hebrew or foreign servants of any kind).Though several forms of servitude existed under the Law of Moses, in every case all rights were maintained unless voluntarily relinquished (Exodus 21:5-6, Deuteronomy 15:16-17).The Law of Moses commanded that servants, of whatever origin (Gentile or Hebrew), were to be treated as human beings who were part of the family and community. Unlike any other ANE society, the Law of Moses commanded that servants enjoy at least one day a week free from every kind of labour, participating in the Sabbath day of rest together with the free members of the community:

Indentured Servitude
Indentured servitude did exist under the Law of Moses, and both fellow Hebrews and foreigners could be contracted as indentured servants. They sold themselves into the ownership of a master to whom they owed money (or a master who paid off the debts they owed to another person), and payed off their debt with service. Indentured servants under the Law of Moses held kinship rights, marriage rights, personal legal rights relating to physical protection and protection from breach of contract, freedom of movement, and access to liberty by paying their debt (either through service, or with money).

The Law of Moses went to great lengths to reduce the necessity of indentured service for the payment of debt, providing various means by which an impoverished man could profit from the sale of his property or land, without losing it permanently. Hebrews were not to charge interest when loaning money to other Hebrews (Deuteronomy 23:19), which reduced the possibility of large debts accruing.

Every fifty years, in the Jubilee year, the property or land which a man had sold to relieve himself from debt, returned to his possession without penalty (Leviticus 25:8-10, 13-14). An impoverished man could sell his land to a fellow Hebrew for a sum equal to the value of the produce it would generate in the years left until the next Jubilee (Leviticus 25:15-16), and the land would return to him in the Jubilee year.Even before the Jubilee year, a man’s property or land was to be repurchased for him by a kinsman (Leviticus 25:25), or could even be repurchased by the man himself if he obtained sufficient funds to do so (Leviticus 25:26-27). This repurchase was considered a compulsory acquisition which the new owner of the land was not permitted to refuse (Leviticus 25:23-24). In any case, the land would return to the man in the Jubilee year (Leviticus 25:13).

Much more detail here:

http://bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/slavery-in-the-bible-25

[Tropicana]

More:

Before we can begin to understand what God says about slavery, we are going to have to take the time to see if the slavery that is discussed in the Bible is anything like the slavery we think of when studying the more recent history of Europe or America. And as we begin to study the issue more carefully, we are going to see that the ‘New Testament Slavery’ of the Ancient Near East (we’ll call this NTS from this point on) has little in common with the ‘New World Slavery’ (NWS from now on) of our American ancestors. So before we become defensive with atheists who claim that God somehow approves NWS, let’s do our best to understand the difference between these two forms of servitude.
What Exactly Are the Differences?
Let’s look at several commonly understood characteristics of slavery and see if there are any differences between the ancient NTS and the more recent cultural NWS we understand so well.
The Motive Behind Slavery
We first need to understand WHY slavery existed in each case we are examining. In NWS here in America, slaves were taken so that their MASTERS would have a better life (for economic gain), but in ancient NTS, the primary motive for slavery was the economic relief of the SERVANT:

Leviticus 25:35-37
Now in case a countryman of yours becomes poor and his means with regard to you falter, then you are to sustain him, like a stranger or a sojourner, that he may live with you. Do not take usurious interest from him, but revere your God, that your countryman may live with you. You shall not give him your silver at interest, nor your food for gain.

How People Entered Into Slavery
Next, it’s important to understand that in our American version of NWS, people were taken into captivity and slavery against their will. They were simply kidnapped or were later born into captivity from parents that were taken captive. But in ancient NTS, the path into slavery was varied and in many cases voluntary. There were several types of servant/slaves in the New and Old Testament:
Voluntary Temporary Indentured Hebrew Servants
People who needed assistance, or who simply could not pay their debts, might turn to a voluntary form of slavery to get by, and the Bible had guidelines for this kind of voluntary servitude:

Exodus 21:2
Now these are the ordinances which you are to set before them. If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment
Deuteronomy 15:12-15
If your kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him free. And when you set him free, you shall not send him away empty-handed. You shall furnish him liberally from your flock and from your threshing floor and from your wine vat; you shall give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you. And you shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you this today

Voluntary Permanent Hebrew Servants
Now it was not uncommon for a temporary indentured servant to want to STAY in service to his or her master (they were not treated harshly like slaves in the NWS version of slavery as you will soon see), and the Bible also offered guidelines for the treatment of these types of servants who became part of the family:

Exodus 21:5-6
But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,’ then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently
Deuteronomy 15:16-17
And it shall come about if he says to you, ‘I will not go out from you,’ because he loves you and your household, since he fares well with you; then you shall take an awl and pierce it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your servant forever. And also you shall do likewise to your maidservant. It shall not seem hard to you when you set him free, for he has given you six years with double the service of a hired man; so the LORD your God will bless you in whatever you do

And there were very strict Biblical laws preventing Hebrews from holding their brethren as slaves against their will:

Deuteronomy 24:7
If a man is caught kidnapping any of his countrymen of the sons of Israel, and he deals with him violently, or sells him, then that thief shall die; so you shall purge the evil from among you.

Involuntary Hebrew and Gentile Criminals in Restitution
Just like today, there were several crimes that required restitution as part of the penalty following a conviction. But what if the criminal was unable to make the restitution to the victim? Well, in these situations, convicted people found themselves in servitude as slaves, paying off their debt to society and to God:

Exodus 22:1-3
If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall pay five oxen for the ox and four sheep for the sheep. If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account. But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

Permanent “Pagan” Servants
The ancient Hebrews did have permanent slaves obtained from the non-Jewish nations that surrounded them. They came into their possession as the result of military conquests:

Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have — you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession

But, remember that this does NOT mean that the Jews were allowed to kidnap a man (even a ‘pagan’ man) against his will and hold or sell him:

Exodus 21:16
And he who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death

The point here is that unlike NWS in which slaves entered into slavery involuntarily, the ancient NTS of Biblical times was far more varied and often voluntary.
How People Were Treated Once They Were Slaves
And there was also a great difference between the way slaves were treated in the New World and in the Ancient Near East. We are all familiar with early American stories chronicling the harsh and often brutal mistreatment of slaves. They were considered the lowest of properties and often treated as though they were not human. But ancient NTS is another story altogether. Slaves were treated humanely and their treatment was regulated by Biblical law. Look at just a few of the legal requirements for the treatment of slaves:
Slaves were not to be treated harshly. They were to be treated humanely and with respect:

Leviticus 25:43, 46, 53
You shall not rule over him with severity, but are to revere your God… You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves… Like a man hired year by year he shall be with him; he shall not rule over him with severity in your sight.
Deuteronomy 15:18
It shall not seem hard to you when you set him free, for he has given you six years with double the service of a hired man; so the LORD your God will bless you in whatever you do

Slaves were allowed to make a decision about whether or not they would stay with their masters:

Exodus 21:5
But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,’ then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.
Deuteronomy 15:16
And it shall come about if he says to you, ‘I will not go out from you,’ because he loves you and your household, since he fares well with you; then you shall take an awl and pierce it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your servant forever

Slaves were often released and when this was done, the slave was to be released with his or her possessions:

Deuteronomy 15:12
“If your kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him free.

Slaves were allowed religious privileges and were also allowed to rest on the Sabbath along with everyone else:

Exodus 20:9-10
Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
Exodus 23:12
Six days you are to do your work, but on the seventh day you shall cease from labor in order that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female slave, as well as your stranger, may refresh themselves.
Deuteronomy 5:13-14
Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

Slaves were also allowed to celebrate other religious holidays and celebrations:

Deuteronomy 12:12
And you shall rejoice before the LORD your God, you and your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, and the Levite who is within your gates, since he has no portion or inheritance with you.
Deuteronomy 12:18
But you shall eat them before the LORD your God in the place which the LORD your God will choose, you and your son and daughter, and your male and female servants, and the Levite who is within your gates; and you shall rejoice before the LORD your God in all your undertakings.

Masters were to be held accountable for the way that they treated their slaves:

Exodus 21:20
And if a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished.

And even though the law allowed for the punishment of slaves, this punishment was exactly the same as that prescribed for non-slaves and even for the sons of non-slaves,

More: http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/wha...about-slavery/

[Tropicana]

how can truth ever be "garbage"?
bible-thumpers need to grow up and realize that some holy pages with words written on them did not fall out of the sky one day. "the bible" is a collection of writings written by men----
people call it the word of god, but anything said or written is the word of god--- if "god" as seen by the hypnotized masses who practice religion is the all-powerful third-party creator and pre-determinator of men's destinies

You and your Krew are speaking anything but truth. You are twisting and turning scripture and taking it our of context. I am not a Bible thumper I am a follower of Christ.

[Emperah]

typical christian jargon when ever it nuh sound de way dem used to hearing it bout how ya tek it out a context.