baring teeth

[Nanook]

Re: baring teeth

Dogs DO have a sense of humor! They also smile and smile...

Sarry Cakes. But they do love to make us laugh and they do smile. Once my day settles down I will go for a smily pic if I can get a chance...I have 3 readily smiling dogs and others that will sometimes.

Laters...

[Suesumba]

Re: baring teeth

i agree that they can be comical bruno the apricot poodle i had -- case in point

[johnnycakes]

Re: baring teeth

Sorry Nanook,
What you're doing is attributing human characteristics to animals that lack the reasoning skills that are required for humor. It's called anthropomorphizing.

Dogs may do things that make you smile if it gets them something but they do not understand that showing teeth which is always hostile in the animal world is smiling because that is not how they express happiness.

Cats version of smiling is to close their eyes when you close yours after both your eyes meet. It's a way of showing non threatening behaviour which humans may consider smiling but it is only feline body language that has existed for hundreds of thousands of years and which is part of what a cat is and not something they picked up from their association with humans.

[Nanook]

Re: baring teeth

Oh JC if it wasn't so hot I'd go drag out the camera. I have dogs that smile. Pure and simple. There is not a shred of aggression when they do this. Lack of reasoning? Nope! They can, and do reason. Yes, on a different level than we do...of course. And no, I am not in the habit of attributing human characteristics onto dogs. I am one of the ones who works to school others not to do that! The variances at play here are many. There are certain breed characteristics as well as individual personalities. To live with a pack you see a lot more than most individuals, and to spend a large amount of time among other people's packs the horizon broadens substantially. I occasionally house/dog sit for a couple of larger show kennels, both have large packs. In each of those packs, as well as in my own...there is all type of personality. Some of them are actual clowns, and yes, they smile at each other in a not agressive but submissive state as well as at me. Some are serious down to business types and some have personality conflicts same way as we do. Some are busy doing their own thing and some pick a favorite buddy.

It really is fascinating, and one of the most interesting things I have noticed is how some will blatantly ignore any not of their own breed during social occasions.

I have seen it so often. One example: a friend would bring her Yorkies over for a visit and my dogs would actually turn their backs and face an opposite direction and not even acknowledge their existence. I have noticed this time and again and had conversations with others who have seen this too. Obviously none of the dogs was in season though!

There is submissive smiling and aggression and there is a difference.

[johnnycakes]

Re: baring teeth

Nanook,

To belabor the point: Dogs may look like they are smiling but they are not smiling in the human sense. They are displaying their teeth for canine reasons that has nothing to do with the human reason which is being pleased or happy.

Dogs wag their tails when they're happy.

Dogs can reason?
I don't think so.

Chimpanzees and the higher apes maybe on a primitive level of a three or four year old human.

I've never heard or read that dogs could reason nor have I experience it with the dogs that I have had.

[23JAM00]

Re: baring teeth

I have had several dogs that smile (they don't bear their teeth)....Mostly when they're happy, being petted etc. No teeth are exposed.

Just a note that it DOES happen.

[Tulip]

Re: baring teeth

Johnnycakes, out of curiosity and so I can avoid making the same mistakes in the future, what breeds of dogs have you owned?

[Tulip]

Re: baring teeth

If you have never seen your dog "smile", then it sounds like an issue that I certainly would not want to have deal with. I prefer being the alpha.


<span style="font-weight: bold">Why Do Dogs Smile?</span>

Ask an expert on dog behavior why dogs smile, and you may get a somewhat complicated answer involving submissive behavior, automatic responses, etc. They often ruefully conclude, &quot;But dogs don't really smile, at least, not for the same reasons we do.&quot;

Ask the average dog owner the same question, and he'll respond indignantly: &quot;Of course he smiles! Just look at that face; he's smiling right now – you can't say that's not a smile!&quot;

We'll look at both sides of this question, because, in a way, both answers are correct.

In wolves, the expression we take for a smile indicates nervousness or submission to another wolf. Dogs also are hard-wired to interpret the expression this way. To signal that he accepts his subordinate position, a subordinate dog retracts the corner of his lips, which pulls the mouth into that happy face we recognize as a smile.

In reality, the &quot;smile&quot; is indicating that the dog is not threatening to overturn the status quo.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Confident alpha dogs rarely smile. They think of themselves as our equals and have no need or desire to signal their deference to us.</span> Consider two men in a bar, one smaller than the other. The smaller man smiles to placate the bigger guy and avoid a conflict

An exception is the &quot;smile&quot; that comes with teeth bared – a smile that decidedly does not indicate submissiveness. A dog that lifts his lip to show his fangs is giving a signal to an encroacher to back off ... NOW.

But dogs are, if nothing else, extremely astute observers. An owner sees his dog &quot;smiling&quot; at him without fangs showing. The owner, touched by this adorable face, rewards the dog with a belly rub, a pat on the head, treats, or some other form of positive attention. The dog notices that when he performs this submissive gesture, he gets something desirable in return. So in a way, the dog's &quot;smile&quot; may become genuine, because he associates the expression with something that makes him happy.

This also helps explain why dogs roll on their backs for those treasured belly rubs. Rolling onto the back normally indicates submission, which the dog is happy to concede because of all the perks that come with it. For the dog, acting submissively is a pretty good deal.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/why-do-dogs-smile/page1.aspx

[Tulip]

Re: baring teeth

I am considering getting my poodle a mate. She gets along well with shih tzus. You know what's holding me back aside from the level of hair care they need? This list: http://petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html. Poodles are no. 2 of 79 and shih tzus are no. 70 of 79.



<span style="font-weight: bold">Dogs and their capacity to reason</span>

Dogs survive under a variety of conditions. Even abandoned dogs survive, often in unfavorable locations. Dogs adapt to their surroundings and to the people they encounter. How can we question their ability to reason?

It is said that man is separated from the animals by his ability to think analytically. Does that mean dogs can not think? Of course not. To deprive an animal of thought would be to deprive the animal of food. Even the lowest of animals must respond to stimuli in order to find food and avoid dangers. For some animals, thought is limited to reflexive responses to stimuli, but most animals appear to engage in some decision making.

When we ask if dogs have the capacity to reason, we need to agree that a dog's thought process is not as complex as the human thought process. I am convinced that dogs do reason, but obviously not at the level that humans reason. This reasoning ability is shown in their behavior.

Feral dogs and even some domesticated dogs hunt for food and hunt successfully. In so doing, they make judgments about distance and speed. They discriminate between targets on the basis of the desirability of eating the prey and the estimated probability of success. A small dog may hunt mice and rabbits but not stalk deer.

Lost and abandoned dogs survive all but the harshest conditions because they can adapt to what ever food source is available and because they can find shelter from the elements...

http://www.helium.com/items/1054069-dogs-and-their-capacity-to-reason

[Nanook]

Re: baring teeth

I'm sorry I just can't help myself...

[Tulip]

Re: baring teeth

[johnnycakes]

Re: baring teeth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tulip</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Johnnycakes, out of curiosity and so I can avoid making the same mistakes in the future, what breeds of dogs have you owned? </div></div>

I have had three dogs in my life and they were all mongrels/ mixed breeds.
I never had an interest in a specific breed but rather just liked dogs for their general &quot;personalities&quot; .

An aside: I do not think dogs treat us as equals as dogs are pack animals and in the case of their human pack, the family they live with, they usually consider themselves inferior or subordinate to all family members.

When they don't, they are a problem in that they try to assert themselves as the boss and will bite. Then they have to be trained to know who is boss/ alpha. That's why you can't have wolves as pets; they never recognize authority forever and will always eventually challenge you, the alpha for supremacy. Dogs always remember who is alpha and never challenge that order..

Now I have a cat and have had cats for about the past 40 years or so.
First, because I lived in the city and worked all day and a pet dog would be home alone which runs contrary to their social nature and I feel rather cruel.

Cats prefer or do not mind being alone and I love the fact that you cannot tell a cat do do anything they don't want to do.
With cats you have to learn what is in their nature to do and work around it.
I love their grace, beauty and independent nature.
Our present cat (Merlin) was a stray/deserted cat who had a coyote bite on his shoulder area when we took him in. He is also FIV positive but has been very healthy for the eight years we have had him.

We have a small plaque that originally read:
&quot;Dogs have masters
Cats have staff&quot;

We changed it to:
&quot;Dogs have masters
Cats have slaves&quot;

We created, manufacture and sell cat scratch boxes to keep people from declawing their cats and have a website that my wife and I spent a long time creating and filling with useful and often entertaining information on cats.

We're at www.catscratchbox.com

Final points: The biggest mistake that people make when they get their first cat is to think that they are in any way like a dog.

Every living thing from humans to spiders and fortylegs is a product of millions of years of evolution or if you prefer, a miracle of God's creation and each deserves respect and its life to live (Unless they attack you).

Some make wonderful companions.

[jamaica_dreamin]

Re: baring teeth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nanceejay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had several dogs that smile (they don't bear their teeth)....Mostly when they're happy, being petted etc. No teeth are exposed.

Just a note that it DOES happen. </div></div>

Pits are known for smiling

[Nanook]

Re: baring teeth

Rosebud has a smile like this one. It is a submissive smile and very endearing. It is in no way showing aggression. In Rosie's case, her eyes are usually open.

[jamaica_dreamin]

Re: baring teeth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nanook</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rosebud has a smile like this one. It is a submissive smile and very endearing. It is in no way showing aggression. In Rosie's case, her eyes are usually open.

</div></div>

What a cutie!

ETA you know that face resembles Barney . I wonder if there is some Mini Pin in there with the Pei?