Been meaning to ask this

**twiney** · 03-09-2012, 08:53 PM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

After a while if they haven't gotten the lesson it is time to let them learn on their own.

**ILP** · 03-09-2012, 10:16 PM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

parents should set an example, but also allow teachers to "suggest" how they want things organized for their class. I think letting kids learn the skill of adjusting for the person that is doing the requiring is a good skill to have, as they will need it as an adult.

Of course parents should help (when kids are young), but as they get older (say HS/College) if the kids "don't get it"...then they need to be able to fall down (to be read: learn). However, with the "high stakes" that is now education...most parents are just not going to do it.

**kia027** · 03-09-2012, 11:19 PM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

not the exact article but one like it

Parents of University of Florida students log on to their children's personal Gator-Link accounts to check grades, then call deans when they don't like what they see.

University of Central Florida parents call administrators to complain when their kids can't get into classes they want.

At Florida State University, parents of graduating seniors haggle with job recruiters. They want to make sure Junior gets a good salary and work schedule.

University administrators have a name for these baby boomer moms and dads who hover over their offspring's college lives.

"Helicopter parents," says Patrick Heaton, FSU's assistant dean of student affairs.

<span style="font-weight: bold">The worst of them - those who do unethical things, like write their kid's term papers - are branded "Black Hawks," a nod to the souped-up military helicopters.</span>

"I also call them tether parents," says Heaton, who directs FSU's freshman orientation program. "It's like a leash. Students are afraid to make decisions about classes or anything without calling home."

Good luck finding a parent who admits being a helicopter, much less a Black Hawk. But across the nation, college administrators are struggling with what they say is a growing phenomenon, a product of the unique relationship between many boomer parents and their millennial-generation children.

Administrators say they know these parents mean well. But their frequent phone calls and unreasonable demands stunt student development and test the patience of college officials.

"Where parent behavior becomes a challenge for us is when they encourage dependence, and they become too involved because they are afraid their son or daughter will make a mistake," says Tom Miller, a University of South Florida dean of students.

"Our students are graduating," says Jeanna Mastrodicasa, associate dean of the UF honors college. "But they are not ready to go into the real world."

nnn

Administrators noticed the hovering problem a few years ago, when the first members of the so-called millennial generation entered college.

Millennials are the children of baby boomers, born between the early 1980s and 2000. Sociologists and higher education officials say this generation is unlike any other, thanks to the child-rearing approach of their parents and the unprecedented influence of technology.

Many boomer parents carefully planned and fiercely protected their children, according to Millennials Rising: The Next Great Generation, by Neil Howe and William Strauss.

They saw their youngsters as "special," and they sheltered them. Parents outfitted their cars with Baby on Board stickers. They insisted their children wear bicycle helmets, knee pads and elbow guards. They scheduled children's every hour with organized extracurricular activities. They led the PTA and developed best-friend-like relationships with their children, says Mastrodicasa, co-author of a book on millennials.

Today, they keep in constant touch with their offspring via e-mail and cell phones. And when their children go off to college, parents stay just as involved.

Sometimes the attention is healthy and supportive. But in some cases, administrators say, their hovering is intrusive.

"The biggest change is technology," says Robin Leach, interim dean of students at FSU. "Where students in the past might just write home, now they're on the phone with their parents all day, every day. If something goes wrong or right, parents know about it very quickly."

An online survey in March by College Parents of America, an advocacy group formed 2½ years ago for the parents of college children, found that one out of three parents communicates with their child daily two to three times a day, typically via cell phone. More than half of the 839 parent respondents said their involvement with their children is "much more" than what they experienced with their own parents during their college years.

"When I went to college in the '70s, contact with my parents was standing at a pay phone on Sunday afternoon," says James Boyle, College Parents of America president. "And there was no expectation beyond that."

Freedom High School graduate Ashton Charles, 18, will attend UF in the fall. She says her mother is supportive but "not ridiculously overprotective."

They take yoga classes together. They watch Grey's Anatomy and Desperate Housewives. They use their cell phones to chat and send text messages.

Ashton figures their close relationship will continue even when she moves to Gainesville this fall.

"I'm sure I'll call her all the time when I'm here," Ashton says.

Pensacola resident Janet Summers was in Gainesville last month for her 18-year-old daughter Christine's freshman orientation. Summers' daughter Elizabeth already graduated from UF.

Summers says Elizabeth knew students whose parents called to wake them up for class or decided their class schedules. Some parents visited so often that others figured they had moved into town.

"It was so over the top, it helped me not to be that way," Summers says. "You just handicap them by being that way."

nnn

Last month, hundreds of parents filled a ballroom on UF's campus, where two-day freshman orientation sessions are being held all summer.

They laughed when Mastrodicasa told them not to expect report cards in the mail. But she wasn't kidding.

"This is very different from high school," she said. "It is so tempting for you to do it all for them. But let them do the work. This is how they'll learn to be grownups."

Paige Crandall, associate dean of students, told parents: "I know you want to fight their battles for them. But you need to give them their space. Starting today."

A generation ago, a lot of parents didn't even attend orientation, Mastrodicasa said. They let their children attend on their own.

Today universities expect a full house of moms and dads and other guardians, and many colleges are refashioning their programs with parent-only talks that politely convey the message: "Back off, your kid's not a kid anymore."

"We talk about the value of letting go," USF's Miller said.

UF officials separate students from parents for much of the two-day orientation.

If not, "Mom will take notes and want to make decisions," Mastrodicasa says.

FSU students and parents also attend separate sessions, but that doesn't stop students from text messaging their parents for help before scheduling their first semester of classes, Heaton says.

At UCF, "we have parents who come and stay the whole first week of class, just to 'make sure they're okay,' " said spokeswoman Linda Gray, shaking her head. "They didn't use to do that."

In a recent online survey, "Helicopter Poll," by the career services provider Experience Inc., 38 percent of more than 400 college students admitted their parents participate in meetings with academic advisers.

One-quarter of the students polled think their parents are "overly involved" to the point of embarrassment or annoyance.

But Boyle, of College Parents of America, thinks concerns about helicopter parents are "overblown."

"It's better than the alternative, them not being involved at all," he says. "In every generation of parents, there are those that get too involved. I think it's a small percentage of parents who do things like try to personally intervene in a roommate dispute."

He says "smart schools" accept that parental involvement is higher with the millennial generation and respond by "catering to the parents."

"They are paying a large part of the tuition bill, and it's just good customer service," he says.

That is USF's approach, Miller said. USF, like an increasing number of universities, has a parents association. Other colleges are hiring parent "advocates."

This is the new reality, Miller said.

"When I was in college, had my parents actually called the dean, I would have been mortified. Now, it's very common."

source

**kia027** · 03-09-2012, 11:31 PM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HIELPEE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">parents should set an example, but also allow teachers to "suggest" how they want things organized for their class. I think letting kids learn the skill of adjusting for the person that is doing the requiring is a good skill to have, as they will need it as an adult.

Of course parents should help (when kids are young), but as they get older (say HS/College) if the kids "don't get it"...then they need to be able to fall down (to be read: learn). However, with the "high stakes" that is now education...most parents are just not going to do it. </div></div>

I agree. Am finding it is good to help them review their material until they can do it on their own (usually by high school). There are tons more material that teens can use khan academy, quizlet, scholar google to help review material learned in school .

At this point what I am finding at high school level is teaching how to edit and proofread.

An acquaintance of mine, pays $$$ for tutors for her child to remain on the honor roll at a private high school and in the meantime does the work of the younger child because he is too busy playing sports

**ILP** · 03-09-2012, 11:57 PM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

But by the time a child gets to HS/College the habit of "helping" a child is ingrained (<a suh it spell? Sorry, mi tyad.) When I taught HS, I use to tell parents...let go after 1st MP/Semester of FRESHMAN year...as HS maybe "new" and the kid is learning the ropes (and all the other BS ray-ray mi said to be PC). But really I'd prefer parents begin to cut the rope strings in middle school. But that is just my very wishful thinking.

Also, hovering not only limited to doing the homework. But it bleeds into calling the teacher to ask/question/clarify/beg for retests/extensions/suggestions,etc. By HS...the kid really should be doing all of that "asking" on them own and then satisfy if the answer isn't what them want to hear. The parents that burn mi the most are the ones who love bawl out the principal's name when they came to me. When they did that...sorry, I know it is in poor taste...it only emboldened me to make sure their kid's possible next chance was null and voided. Or that mi was "extra diligent" in marking papers...I did my best to catch the errors. Or mi cuss the Principal (who could do nothing to me) when they came (if they did).

But again...I know with "high stakes"...it is just my wishful thinking.

I've had two bizzare instances since mi reach here at the college fulltime. I had a kid show up to a dismissal hearing (because of low grades and she already was on probation). She said the college never followed her IEP as teachers didn't tell her specifically to do her work. Mi still having a hard time wrapping my brain around that one. The other was a parent who called me to ask why I dont give Xtra Credit or options to redo assignments as part of my course. Not sure if my Dean gave her an answer or not....I hung up on her.

ETA: Oh and before anybody cuss me for what I wrote up top...mi not speaking for 100% of teachers (as I can not), but speaking as an insider...the practice is called Documenting. Many teachers dont like to talk about this practice and often it is just one of the unspoken modes of operation in the halls of schools across this country. We may not speak about it out loud, but we are very aware when we (and our fellow teachers do it). When one way of documenting get exposed and policy come down fi nip it....there is always someone right at the policy meeting to tell us the new way to do the very same thing. Yup, Teachers who deal with Helicopter/Blackhawk/etc parents simply document it and take it out on the one they can....the kid sitting in the classroom.

**twiney** · 03-10-2012, 01:07 AM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

And then they come to University and I have to deal with them. Now when them all a put in them comments which subject you should use fi calculate them average even if it a non-academic subject which wont meet the requirement for the program them want to do. And the parents who hang up the phone on you or trace you off good and proper when you tell them you cant discuss likkle Johny business with them under the law although them paying the how much thousands of dollas fi push them cow up on housetop

**diabolical_Tanya** · 03-10-2012, 01:23 AM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

according to FOIP we not allowed to discuss ANYTHING about the student wid dem parent if dem reach 18. unless the student signs a waiver.

**Gen** · 03-10-2012, 10:07 AM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

how often I guess it would depend on the child.

**Gen** · 03-10-2012, 10:19 AM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

this is psycho and beyond extreme. a bit different from "teaching and reinforcing organizational and study habits"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kia</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not the exact article but one like it

Parents of University of Florida students log on to their children's personal Gator-Link accounts to check grades, then call deans when they don't like what they see.

University of Central Florida parents call administrators to complain when their kids can't get into classes they want.

At Florida State University, parents of graduating seniors haggle with job recruiters. They want to make sure Junior gets a good salary and work schedule.

University administrators have a name for these baby boomer moms and dads who hover over their offspring's college lives.

"Helicopter parents," says Patrick Heaton, FSU's assistant dean of student affairs.

<span style="font-weight: bold">The worst of them - those who do unethical things, like write their kid's term papers - are branded "Black Hawks," a nod to the souped-up military helicopters.</span>

"I also call them tether parents," says Heaton, who directs FSU's freshman orientation program. "It's like a leash. Students are afraid to make decisions about classes or anything without calling home."

Good luck finding a parent who admits being a helicopter, much less a Black Hawk. But across the nation, college administrators are struggling with what they say is a growing phenomenon, a product of the unique relationship between many boomer parents and their millennial-generation children.

Administrators say they know these parents mean well. But their frequent phone calls and unreasonable demands stunt student development and test the patience of college officials.

"Where parent behavior becomes a challenge for us is when they encourage dependence, and they become too involved because they are afraid their son or daughter will make a mistake," says Tom Miller, a University of South Florida dean of students.

"Our students are graduating," says Jeanna Mastrodicasa, associate dean of the UF honors college. "But they are not ready to go into the real world."

nnn

Administrators noticed the hovering problem a few years ago, when the first members of the so-called millennial generation entered college.

Millennials are the children of baby boomers, born between the early 1980s and 2000. Sociologists and higher education officials say this generation is unlike any other, thanks to the child-rearing approach of their parents and the unprecedented influence of technology.

Many boomer parents carefully planned and fiercely protected their children, according to Millennials Rising: The Next Great Generation, by Neil Howe and William Strauss.

They saw their youngsters as "special," and they sheltered them. Parents outfitted their cars with Baby on Board stickers. They insisted their children wear bicycle helmets, knee pads and elbow guards. They scheduled children's every hour with organized extracurricular activities. They led the PTA and developed best-friend-like relationships with their children, says Mastrodicasa, co-author of a book on millennials.

Today, they keep in constant touch with their offspring via e-mail and cell phones. And when their children go off to college, parents stay just as involved.

Sometimes the attention is healthy and supportive. But in some cases, administrators say, their hovering is intrusive.

"The biggest change is technology," says Robin Leach, interim dean of students at FSU. "Where students in the past might just write home, now they're on the phone with their parents all day, every day. If something goes wrong or right, parents know about it very quickly."

An online survey in March by College Parents of America, an advocacy group formed 2½ years ago for the parents of college children, found that one out of three parents communicates with their child daily two to three times a day, typically via cell phone. More than half of the 839 parent respondents said their involvement with their children is "much more" than what they experienced with their own parents during their college years.

"When I went to college in the '70s, contact with my parents was standing at a pay phone on Sunday afternoon," says James Boyle, College Parents of America president. "And there was no expectation beyond that."

Freedom High School graduate Ashton Charles, 18, will attend UF in the fall. She says her mother is supportive but "not ridiculously overprotective."

They take yoga classes together. They watch Grey's Anatomy and Desperate Housewives. They use their cell phones to chat and send text messages.

Ashton figures their close relationship will continue even when she moves to Gainesville this fall.

"I'm sure I'll call her all the time when I'm here," Ashton says.

Pensacola resident Janet Summers was in Gainesville last month for her 18-year-old daughter Christine's freshman orientation. Summers' daughter Elizabeth already graduated from UF.

Summers says Elizabeth knew students whose parents called to wake them up for class or decided their class schedules. Some parents visited so often that others figured they had moved into town.

"It was so over the top, it helped me not to be that way," Summers says. "You just handicap them by being that way."

nnn

Last month, hundreds of parents filled a ballroom on UF's campus, where two-day freshman orientation sessions are being held all summer.

They laughed when Mastrodicasa told them not to expect report cards in the mail. But she wasn't kidding.

"This is very different from high school," she said. "It is so tempting for you to do it all for them. But let them do the work. This is how they'll learn to be grownups."

Paige Crandall, associate dean of students, told parents: "I know you want to fight their battles for them. But you need to give them their space. Starting today."

A generation ago, a lot of parents didn't even attend orientation, Mastrodicasa said. They let their children attend on their own.

Today universities expect a full house of moms and dads and other guardians, and many colleges are refashioning their programs with parent-only talks that politely convey the message: "Back off, your kid's not a kid anymore."

"We talk about the value of letting go," USF's Miller said.

UF officials separate students from parents for much of the two-day orientation.

If not, "Mom will take notes and want to make decisions," Mastrodicasa says.

FSU students and parents also attend separate sessions, but that doesn't stop students from text messaging their parents for help before scheduling their first semester of classes, Heaton says.

At UCF, "we have parents who come and stay the whole first week of class, just to 'make sure they're okay,' " said spokeswoman Linda Gray, shaking her head. "They didn't use to do that."

In a recent online survey, "Helicopter Poll," by the career services provider Experience Inc., 38 percent of more than 400 college students admitted their parents participate in meetings with academic advisers.

One-quarter of the students polled think their parents are "overly involved" to the point of embarrassment or annoyance.

But Boyle, of College Parents of America, thinks concerns about helicopter parents are "overblown."

"It's better than the alternative, them not being involved at all," he says. "In every generation of parents, there are those that get too involved. I think it's a small percentage of parents who do things like try to personally intervene in a roommate dispute."

He says "smart schools" accept that parental involvement is higher with the millennial generation and respond by "catering to the parents."

"They are paying a large part of the tuition bill, and it's just good customer service," he says.

That is USF's approach, Miller said. USF, like an increasing number of universities, has a parents association. Other colleges are hiring parent "advocates."

This is the new reality, Miller said.

"When I was in college, had my parents actually called the dean, I would have been mortified. Now, it's very common."

source </div></div>

**kia027** · 03-10-2012, 11:02 AM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how often I guess it would depend on the child. </div></div>

and their level of organization but now it is a matter of just saying, show me where u documented it and after a few months it sort of get ingrained.

**kia027** · 03-10-2012, 12:47 PM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HIELPEE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But by the time a child gets to HS/College the habit of "helping" a child is ingrained (<a suh it spell? Sorry, mi tyad.) When I taught HS, I use to tell parents...let go after 1st MP/Semester of FRESHMAN year...as HS maybe "new" and the kid is learning the ropes (and all the other BS ray-ray mi said to be PC). But really I'd prefer parents begin to cut the rope strings in middle school. But that is just my very wishful thinking.

Also, hovering not only limited to doing the homework. But it bleeds into calling the teacher to ask/question/clarify/beg for retests/extensions/suggestions,etc. By HS...the kid really should be doing all of that "asking" on them own and then satisfy if the answer isn't what them want to hear. The parents that burn mi the most are the ones who love bawl out the principal's name when they came to me. When they did that...sorry, I know it is in poor taste...it only emboldened me to make sure their kid's possible next chance was null and voided. Or that mi was "extra diligent" in marking papers...I did my best to catch the errors. Or mi cuss the Principal (who could do nothing to me) when they came (if they did).

But again...I know with "high stakes"...it is just my wishful thinking.

I've had two bizzare instances since mi reach here at the college fulltime. I had a kid show up to a dismissal hearing (because of low grades and she already was on probation). She said the college never followed her IEP as teachers didn't tell her specifically to do her work. Mi still having a hard time wrapping my brain around that one. The other was a parent who called me to ask why I dont give Xtra Credit or options to redo assignments as part of my course. Not sure if my Dean gave her an answer or not....I hung up on her.

ETA: Oh and before anybody cuss me for what I wrote up top...mi not speaking for 100% of teachers (as I can not), but speaking as an insider...the practice is called Documenting. Many teachers dont like to talk about this practice and often it is just one of the unspoken modes of operation in the halls of schools across this country. We may not speak about it out loud, but we are very aware when we (and our fellow teachers do it). When one way of documenting get exposed and policy come down fi nip it....there is always someone right at the policy meeting to tell us the new way to do the very same thing. Yup, Teachers who deal with Helicopter/Blackhawk/etc parents simply document it and take it out on the one they can....the kid sitting in the classroom. </div></div>

ILP mi haffi seh it hawd cause if every parent a pay tutor or a help dem HS pickney wid dem tings fi have dem pickney mek the honor roll and ur kid do it on their own but noh mek honor roll, s/he going to get passed over to a good college and their whole future is doomed (a so madeeks tell mi).

Personally I am on the fence. I have two adhd pickney so they need more structure and organization than the average kid. They can do the work but need tools to keep them organized and someone to remind them more often than other kids (i have seen how easy it is ) So we have study hall, we talk about what they learn in school so we know how to explain to the 5th grader that what the teacher meant in her notes about the irish immigrating because of bad potatoes is really a potato famine . With the hs freshman we talk about what he learned in school, give websites to clarify what he did not understand at school, what to contact the teacher about and how to say it.. yet <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Click to reveal.. <input type="button" class="form-button" value="Show me!" onclick="toggle_spoiler(this, 'Yikes, my eyes!', 'Show me!')" /></div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div style="display: none;">he has not opened his locker from september so walks around with his books all day. Fortunately he is not the only one </div></div></div>

**twiney** · 03-10-2012, 01:13 PM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

Kia. Sadly not every child should go to the mainstream/top universities and colleges so getting them on honor roll in high school and then into the best university is actually doing them a dis-service. I soon come talk more bout this. I see many 80+ averages given the boot every year. Just went to conference this week where this was addressed.

**ILP** · 03-10-2012, 02:58 PM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kia</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I am on the fence. I have two adhd pickney so they need more structure and organization than the average kid. They can do the work but need tools to keep them organized and someone to remind them more often than other kids (i have seen how easy it is ) So we have study hall, we talk about what they learn in school so we know how to explain to the 5th grader that what the teacher meant in her notes about the irish immigrating because of bad potatoes is really a potato famine . <span style="font-weight: bold">With the hs freshman we talk about what he learned in school, give websites to clarify what he did not understand at school, what to contact the teacher about and how to say it.. yet</span> </div></div>

so how you plan on doing this? mi juss a ask...unfortunately, it is you (and your good efforts) that have gotten him to stay on task, so that others can see what he is capable of. When is it time to see what he can do with no reminders/suggestions/tip/etc from you? Memba say mi just ah ask.

**kia027** · 03-10-2012, 04:10 PM

Re: Been meaning to ask this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HIELPEE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kia</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I am on the fence. I have two adhd pickney so they need more structure and organization than the average kid. They can do the work but need tools to keep them organized and someone to remind them more often than other kids (i have seen how easy it is ) So we have study hall, we talk about what they learn in school so we know how to explain to the 5th grader that what the teacher meant in her notes about the irish immigrating because of bad potatoes is really a potato famine . <span style="font-weight: bold">With the hs freshman we talk about what he learned in school, give websites to clarify what he did not understand at school, what to contact the teacher about and how to say it.. yet</span> </div></div>

so how you plan on doing this? mi juss a ask...unfortunately, it is you (and your good efforts) that have gotten him to stay on task, so that others can see what he is capable of. When is it time to see what he can do with no reminders/suggestions/tip/etc from you? Memba say mi just ah ask. </div></div>

His therapist recommends that we do this for the freshman year.. memba say adhd organizational development is about 25-30% behind their chronological years.

He works on his own for marketing, math, spanish, and english. World history and biology we provide the tools (the bio test prep book) . He collaborates with classmates in a fb group so they all confirm and double check.

Been meaning to ask this

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