Mustard Seed- a different perspective

[rudemonk]

I stumbled on an old ch'an gong an- what are known in the west as Zen koans- well Zen is Japanese and it came from China first, where it was born at the Shaolin Temple through the meditation of an Indian monk named Bodhidharma.

So anyway, the gong an:

<span style="font-style: italic">During the Tang Dynasty, there was a man named Li Bo who just loved to study. Because he had read over 10,000 books, people called him Li of Ten Thousand Volumes.
One day he asked the monk Zhishang:
“There is a passage in the Vimalakirtinirdesa which says ‘Mount Sumeru can be inserted into a mustard seed.’ How could such a big mountain possibly fit into a tiny mustard seed?”
The monk replied: “You are called Li of Ten Thousand Volumes, how could those ten thousand volumes fit into your tiny skull?”</span>

[DC]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

mmmmm Interesting monk..
Are there any other <span style="font-style: italic">gong an ??</span> comparisons with Biblical parables?

[rudemonk]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

there are tons.

their purpose is actually quite similar in many respects to Yashua's technique, so there are certainly many which tread the same water. mostly they are supposed to cause a short circuit and force an intuitive ah-HA!!! which then destroys superficial perceptions and allows the mind to approach and understand the ineffable.

there is even one in which the gospel is directly quoted.

[rudemonk]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

I'd also like to say, the more you start to see what exactly he was getting at by virtue of the fact that all transcendental masters exhibit a tendency to reveal the same basic pathways to bring us into unity with the divine or the other, the more you start to realize how a lot of gobbledeegook got mapped over it to mean something probably far from what he was really about...which is why you never, for example, hear Yashua discuss the fall of Adam as his direct reason for coming to earth, why when asked point blank what was needed for salvation, he says nothing at all about what most Christians are about, etc.

[DC]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective


Actually, in a roundabout way, I was requesting you post another gong an.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there is even one in which the gospel is directly quoted.</div></div>

Let me see this one monk....or if you want to direct me to some site to take look, that's fine too..

[rudemonk]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

ah, okay...I will post a few. Something I just remembered actually, it might have been possible for Yashua to have been exposed to this kind of dharma combat so to speak while in Egypt, as there was a Buddhist community there contemporary with his flight.

This is the koan (the japanese or zen word) I was referring to which mentions the gospel directly:

<span style="font-weight: bold">
<span style="font-style: italic">A monk came to his master Gasan, asking, &quot;have you ever read the Christian Bible?&quot;

&quot;No,&quot; said Gasan. &quot;Please read some of it to me.&quot;

The monk (who had been in seminary) opened to the Gospel of St. Matthew and read:

&quot;And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They toil not, neither do they spin, and yet I say unto you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these... Take therefore no thought for the morrow, for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.&quot;

Gasan said: &quot;Whoever uttered those words I consider an enlightened man.&quot;

</span>
</span>
There are several variations extent.

Also compare with:

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">
When Bankei was preaching a sermon at Ryumon Temple, a Shinsu Priest, who believed in salvation through the repitition of the name of the Buddha of Love, was jealous of the large audience he attracted and wanted to debate him.

Bankei was in the midst of his talk when the priest appeared, and the fellow made such a disturbance that Bankei had to stop his discourse and ask about the noise.

&quot;The founder of my sect,&quot; boasted the priest, &quot;has developed such miraculous powers, through reciting mantras, through meditation on the holy name, that he once held a brush in his hand on one bank of a river, his attendant held up a paper on the other bank, and the teacher wrote the holy name of Amida in the air, and it appeared on the paper across the river. Can you do such wonderful things?&quot;

Bankei replied lightly, &quot;Perhaps your fox can perform that trick, but as for Ch'an, we eat when it is time to eat, sleep when it is time to sleep.&quot;
</span></span>


Here is another from Bankei:
<span style="font-weight: bold">
<span style="font-style: italic">One day while addressing a crowd, monk Bankei was being heckled by a Nichiren priest. The priest was yelling out, “I don’t understand a single word you’re saying!”
Bankei called out and said, “Come closer and I’ll explain it.”
The priest walked in the mist of the crowd. Bankei said “No, come closer.”
The priest edged closer, and Bankei said “No closer still,” until finally the priest was right next to Bankei.

Bankei said: “Ah look! How well you understand me!”</span>
</span>

[rudemonk]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

a fine point revealed herein:

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">
One day Mang Gong Su Nim, my grand-teacher, visited Kyeong Ho Su Nim, his teacher. It was Kyeong Ho Su Nim's birthday, so Mang Gong Su Nim brought some meat, drink, and some rice cakes with him. Kyeong Ho Su Nim was very happy to see Mang Gong Su Nim.

&quot;You are so busy, how can you find time to come?&quot;

Mang Gong Su Nim said, &quot;No, no, Master, I am not busy. It's your birthday, so I'm visiting you. You already have everything, so I'm just bringing you this food.&quot; So he took out the meat, the alcohol, and the rice cakes.

Kyeong Ho Su Nim said, &quot;Oh, wonderful! Where did you get all this?''

Mang Gong Su Nim said, &quot;Nowadays I have no hindrance. If someone gives me wine, I drink. If they don't, I don't drink. If someone gives me meat, I eat. Meat and rice are the same. If they don't, I don't eat. If rice cakes come, I eat rice cakes...&quot;

The Kyeong Ho Su Nim said, &quot;Oh Mang Gong Su Nim, you are wonderful. But my mind is not this style.''

&quot;Oh? What is your style, Master?''

&quot;I cannot get freedom. I want something. Maybe I want garlic. In the temple there is no garlic, so I go to the city, I buy some garlic, I put it in the ground, it grows up, a lot of garlic appears, then I eat it.''

When Mang Gong Su Nim heard this, his mind went, &quot;Bong!&quot; &quot;Master,'' he said, &quot;I am sorry. Before I didn't understand. Now I understand.&quot;

Mang Gong Su Nim's mind was only original Enlightenment. Kyeong Ho Su Nim's speech was final Enlightenment. In original Enlightenment, everything is no hindrance. Seeing just like this is truth; hearing just like this is truth; everything just like this is truth. So there is no hindrance. Everything is O.K. Practicing is O.K., not practicing is O.K..

This is already past primary point. Attaining primary point is first Enlightenment; only like this is original Enlightenment. Final Enlightenment means, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #3333FF">not only for me.</span></span> I want something, for all people. This means, you must keep the Great vow. Then you must go straight. Don't check yourself. If you say, &quot;Something comes, I eat; nothing comes, I don't eat,&quot; there is no vow there, there is no Bodhisattva, no great love, no compassion. Coming is O.K., going is O.K., suffering is O.K., not suffering is O.K. This style mind is no good. You must go straight, do hard training for other people. This is correct teaching. So soon Mang Gong Su Nim understood: &quot;Ah, I am sorry.''

So I hope you only go straight don't know, do hard training for other people, attain Enlightenment, Great Love, Great Compassion, and the Great Bodhisattva Way, and save all people from suffering. Thank you.</span></span>

[Nylah]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective


I havent ventured down to this neck of the woods in months until today.

I love this one.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Here is another from Bankei:

One day while addressing a crowd, monk Bankei was being heckled by a Nichiren priest. The priest was yelling out, “I don’t understand a single word you’re saying!”
Bankei called out and said, “Come closer and I’ll explain it.”
The priest walked in the mist of the crowd. Bankei said “No, come closer.”
The priest edged closer, and Bankei said “No closer still,” until finally the priest was right next to Bankei.

Bankei said: “Ah look! How well you understand me!”

</span>

[rudemonk]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

another one of my favorites:

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Master Danxia was wintering at Huilin Temple, and the weather was bitter cold and a heavy snow fell such that the monks were snowbound. It was unbearable so to keep warm Danxia took a statue from the altar and burned it for heat. Sometimes in those days it was customary to put a Saint's relic in a statue.

“Are you out of your mind!!” yelped the first monk who saw him warming himself by the burning statue, “how could you burn a statue of the Buddha?”

“I wanted to see if any sheli (spirits) would come out,” said Danxia.

“Why on earth would there be any sheli in a wooden statue?” said the monk.

“Well if there aren’t any sheli in these statues then bring some more down here to burn,” replied Danxia.</span></span>

from Matthew:

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Matthew 12

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.

But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?</span></span>

[rudemonk]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">During a lecture Qingping asked Cuiwei:
“What is the fundamental meaning of Buddhism?”
“Wait until the other people have gone, then I’ll tell you” whispered Cuiwei.
“They are leaving. Now can you tell me?” said Qingping, eagerly.
Cuiwei led Qingping to a grove of bamboo.
“Look over here: this bamboo is tall and that bamboo is short.”</span></span>

[DC]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When Bankei was preaching a sermon at Ryumon Temple, a Shinsu Priest, who believed in salvation through the repitition of the name of the Buddha of Love, was jealous of the large audience he attracted and wanted to debate him.

Bankei was in the midst of his talk when the priest appeared, and the fellow made such a disturbance that Bankei had to stop his discourse and ask about the noise.

&quot;The founder of my sect,&quot; boasted the priest, &quot;has developed such miraculous powers, through reciting mantras, through meditation on the holy name, that he once held a brush in his hand on one bank of a river, his attendant held up a paper on the other bank, and the teacher wrote the holy name of Amida in the air, and it appeared on the paper across the river. Can you do such wonderful things?&quot;

Bankei replied lightly, &quot;Perhaps your fox can perform that trick, but as for Ch'an, we eat when it is time to eat, sleep when it is time to sleep.&quot;</div></div>

I am familiar with this one..Keep them coming Monk..

[Ephratahe]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">another one of my favorites:

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Master Danxia was wintering at Huilin Temple, and the weather was bitter cold and a heavy snow fell such that the monks were snowbound. It was unbearable so to keep warm Danxia took a statue from the altar and burned it for heat. Sometimes in those days it was customary to put a Saint's relic in a statue.

“Are you out of your mind!!” yelped the first monk who saw him warming himself by the burning statue, “how could you burn a statue of the Buddha?”

“I wanted to see if any sheli (spirits) would come out,” said Danxia.

“Why on earth would there be any sheli in a wooden statue?” said the monk.

“Well if there aren’t any sheli in these statues then bring some more down here to burn,” replied Danxia.</span></span> </div></div>

I think there's an Old Testament correlation to the above - where the little boy destroys his father's idol because he felt the idol held no power intrinsically. I'm blanking on the text at the moment...

[rudemonk]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

<span style="font-weight: bold">A monk told Joshu: `I have just entered the monastery. Please teach me.'
Joshu asked: `Have you eaten your rice porridge?'

The monk replied: `I have eaten.'

Joshu said: `Then you had better wash your bowl.'

At that moment the monk was enlightened.</span>

[rudemonk]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective

<span style="font-weight: bold">Once the monks of the eastern and western halls were quarrelling about a cat. Nansen came upon them arguing there and he took up the cat, drew his sword, and said, &quot;You monks! If one of you can say a word, I will spare the cat. If you can't say anything, I will cut it in half.&quot; No one could answer, so Nansen finally slew it. In the evening, when Joshu returned, Nansen told him what had happened. Joshu, thereupon, took off his sandals, put them on his head and walked off. Nansen said, &quot;If you had been there, you could have saved the cat.&quot;</span>

[DC]

Re: Mustard Seed- a different perspective


The last one you just posted is akin (somewhat) to the story of Solomon and the two women who argued over who was the rightful parent of a baby. Solomon took his sword and said he would divide the baby in half, and give one half to one woman and the other half to the other woman. The woman who was the actual mother pleaded to give the child to the next woman. OF course the next woman insisted that Solomon divide the child in half..Solomon gave the child to the first woman....
This gong an has a different ending however..