Famous black non sell outs

**barosa** · 07-09-2008, 01:55 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

Another of the famous black non-sell outs:

As one of the most accomplished, dignified and respected black Americans who faced great challenges and racism during the 1930's 40's 50's and beyond, he stands tall even to this day... He was always forthright, direct and was NEVER afraid to speak out about RACISM in America which cost him dearly in the end. Because of his "political stances" brought about by White Racism in America, he eventually was marginalized. Due to his cause and support of the common man, he paid a sacrifice which affected his career long before the time of his death...

He is none other than the Great <span style="font-weight: bold">PAUL ROBESON</span>, one of my alltime heroes...

**Wahalla** · 07-09-2008, 02:10 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another of the famous black non-sell outs:

As one of the most accomplished, dignified and respected black Americans who faced great challenges and racism during the 1930's 40's 50's and beyond, he stands tall even to this day... He was always forthright, direct and was NEVER afraid to speak out about RACISM in America which cost him dearly in the end. Because of his "political stances" brought about by White Racism in America, he eventually was marginalized. Due to his cause and support of the common man, he paid a sacrifice which affected his career long before the time of his death...

He is none other than the Great <span style="font-weight: bold">PAUL ROBESON</span>, one of my alltime heroes... </div></div>

He subscribed to Communism and never stood up for out right rascism in the soviet Union, he was aware of the black men who died in the soveit Gulag and never mentioned it.. He never helped a Jamaican who asked him to help him leave the soviet union.. (See Black in Red by Robinson).. He slept with white women while married, Garvey described him as a "sell out" !

**jah_yout** · 07-09-2008, 02:54 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what constitues a black non-sell out? </div></div>

Wahalla, as the originator of this thread, I thought it fitting that I draw your attenttion to this individual. Please note that this person is not "Technically" anybody. He is a "bona fide" black who preceded Marcus Garvey.

PAUL BOGLE, the real deal...

______________________________

There's always hope for a brighter tomorrow.

</div></div>

I suddenly realise that I know little details of bogle....I know the myths did not include the fact that he had an island wide movement, with posters being fly pickleted oin Black River.. And the fact there was a big black nationalism element to his campaing... but on bogel actual poltics and his speeches very little.... </div></div>

bogle left us the phrase 'cleave to the black'

**jah_yout** · 07-09-2008, 02:55 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by jah yout

-lumumba... Wahalla: when Lumumba visted Washington, the US govermetn procured for him a blond on his request... Lumuba was a tragic failure who was not upt to the job of holding his country togehter... But he d

-mau mau:::: Wahalla: they killed more non Kukuyu Africans than white people...Guess not selling out includes killing Africans
-ali Wahalla: Ah the great ali.. He who called the full blooded Gullah, Fraser an ape. ????? Who told Fraser he was too ugly to have children ????.. (Now Fraser was and is not ugly) The exact point that Garvey made as to the attitude towards Africa ascetic.. the perpetuating the image of needed European features to be pleasant....or the man who said in reference to African (Zairen) women he liked "milk in his coffee</div></div> </div></div>

lumumba: as far as i'm concerned the blond thing is rumors
mau mau: yes in the war some blacks will have to go also...it's not all about a color thing
ali: he was wrong for speaking of frasier in that way and he has paid the price (jah silence him)...but him never bow to dutty babylonia unjust war in vietnam...didn't sell his soul for their gain
</div></div>

Great rationalisation of cowardice, incompetence, compromise or collaboration Screw Jah...

don't screw jah or you may end up the one being screwed

**barosa** · 07-09-2008, 05:05 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He subscribed to Communism and never stood up for out right rascism in the soviet Union, he was aware of the black men who died in the soveit Gulag and never mentioned it.. He never helped a Jamaican who asked him to help him leave the soviet union.. (See Black in Red by Robinson).. He slept with white women while married, Garvey described him as a "sell out" ! </div></div>

Come awwn Wahalla, The communism charge was the "in-thing" during the post WW2 period into the '50's during the McCarthy era. I'll bet Robinson the author of ""Black in Red was not an admirer of Paul Robeson. I've never heard of him or her. I hope you are not refering to Jackie Robinson. During the 1930's Robeson was on top of his game, performances throughout Europe was routine and unrivaled by other performers. He was in great demand wherever he went and found common cause with the culture of serfs in the Soviet Union as with other downtrodden elsewhere, but he found more freedom and non-discrimination in Russia than in his own country and said so... The mistake he made was to compare his freedom as a black man in Russia as he saw it with JIM CROWISM in America where he experienced Racism, segregation and discrimination. They will get you for "that" and the did! they took away his passport...

How on earth could Paul Robeson a mere performer of the arts on a visit do anything to help black men who were supposedly in the Soviet Gulag which is a prison not in Russia. As to the "Jamaican" in Russia asking him for help to get him out: where did you get all this mumbo jumbo. It sounds like some kinda hatchet "black" job done by an uncle tom on Robeson which was common place in the US. What's all that "tripe" about him sleeping with "white" women, another tactict used by the system to cast successful blackmen in a bad light when it was a well known fact that WHITE WOMEN were throwing themselves at him both in Europe and in America and if he slept with a few, some may have been unavoidable... He was one of the most charming magnetic black man around at the time when Jim Crow was supreme in America.. Wahalla, by repeating some of those scurilous smears, you are being used to perpetrate those long forgotten discredited nonsense... By the way, I heard Paul Robeson sang at a Free Concert in Kingston when I was only a laddie, it was very long ago...

**jah_yout** · 07-09-2008, 05:30 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> WHITE WOMEN were throwing themselves at him both in Europe and in America and if he slept with a few, some may have been unavoidable... </div></div>

fi real...dem fling it, he might have caught one or two

**barosa** · 07-10-2008, 12:37 AM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> WHITE WOMEN were throwing themselves at him both in Europe and in America and if he slept with a few, some may have been unavoidable... </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">fi real...dem fling it, he might have caught one or two </span> </div></div>
Jah yout, How many of us guys would have given anything to be in his shoes for about 6 months to experience what he had to endure for years and years!... Ahh yout, life is not fair, some people really do get all the breaks...
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**Wahalla** · 07-10-2008, 04:11 AM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He subscribed to Communism and never stood up for out right rascism in the soviet Union, he was aware of the black men who died in the soveit Gulag and never mentioned it.. He never helped a Jamaican who asked him to help him leave the soviet union.. (See Black in Red by Robinson).. He slept with white women while married, Garvey described him as a "sell out" ! </div></div>

Come awwn Wahalla, The communism charge was the "in-thing" during the post WW2 period into the '50's during the McCarthy era.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Wahalla: Garvey of whom I am less than an admier had it right when he described communism as an attemot to solve the poltical and economic problems of Europe... Not of America or of Africans... Marx in all of his impenetrible, dense writing imply the common ownership of wealth somewhere in his writings describes colonialism as a good thing that they would book strap africans... The world is not America. So if the inthing is wrong we can rationalise it.. Hell no... When Robeson was singing Soviet and Stalin's praises they were mass deporting people simple based on their ethnicties to empty spaces of steppes. And if they could do it to the Tartan, Chezz, jews, Koreans, Germans, Georgians, Finns, what does that imply they would do to Afrticans.. As the world has long ignored the African victims of Hitler so they have not mentioned the African American victims of Stalin.. Barosa a man asked Robeson help to leave the soviet union.. Robinson was a an admirer.. Robeson sang at hte factory he worked... [Robeson did nothing to help a Jamaican.. [For all his high faluting rhetoric, of all his verbal support for left wing causes he never stood up.... </span>

I'll bet Robinson the author of ""Black in Red was not an admirer of Paul Robeson. I've never heard of him or her. I hope you are not refering to Jackie Robinson. During the 1930's Robeson was on top of his game, performances throughout Europe was routine and unrivaled by other performers. He was in great demand wherever he went and found common cause with the culture of serfs in the Soviet Union as with other downtrodden elsewhere, but he found more freedom and non-discrimination in Russia than in his own country and said so...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Wahalla: My world does not evolve around religion of Celebrity.. No it is not Jackie Robinson...Please find a single critism of the soviet unions mass deportation based on ethnicities that Paul Robeson did ? Please tell me Robeson came out and condemn the mass deportation of the serfs for refusing the mass theft of the grain from the selfs by the soviet authorties ??? Non discrimination in the Soviet Union ??? Ask an older Uzbeck, Tartar or a Lapp </span> The mistake he made was to compare his freedom as a black man in Russia as he saw it with JIM CROWISM in America where he experienced Racism, segregation and discrimination. They will get you for "that" and the did! they took away his passport...

How on earth could Paul Robeson a mere performer of the arts on a visit do anything to help black men who were supposedly in the Soviet Gulag which is a prison not in Russia. As to the "Jamaican" in Russia asking him for help to get him out: where did you get all this mumbo jumbo.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wahalla: The man asked him for help.. He did nothing.. He sent a flunkey to fob him off.. He could have stood up for the brother. As for the accusation below.. Robinson was a trained machinist (for the fans of lists. The first black man to be trained by the ford motor company in this profession) who left followed the entrities of the "left winger's in the 1920's, left ford motor company to go to help buyild a workers paradise.. Some uncle tom... </div></div> It sounds like some kinda hatchet "black" job done by an uncle tom on Robeson which was common place in the US. What's all that "tripe" about him sleeping with "white" women, another tactict used by the system to cast successful blackmen in a bad light when it was a well known fact that WHITE WOMEN were throwing themselves at him both in Europe and in America and if he slept with a few, some may have been unavoidable.

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Wahalla: Nice to know its ok for black men to sleep with white women, it is ok to be unfaithful to ones wife...... and this is unaoidable. And this is not tripe. Robeson had among other things a more than a fling while in London with his wife with Dame Peggy Ashcroft. He was at the point of dumping his wife ..</span> .. He was one of the most charming magnetic black man around at the time when Jim Crow was supreme in America.. Wahalla, by repeating some of those scurilous smears, you are being used to perpetrate those long forgotten discredited nonsense... By the way, I heard Paul Robeson sang at a Free Concert in Kingston when I was only a laddie, it was very long ago... </div></div>

Being charming, magnetic singer did not prevent him from being a compromiser, a coward or collaborator jsut like the rest of us! It is only a smear when it is not true!

there is too much an attempt to demonstrate that individuals are sell outs because they are just like us... The attempts to call others Uncle Toms and Sell outs because their actions are contratry to one own opnions is too often, too quickly and too easily bandided about... Does this make any individual any more less than us..

Was Jack Johnson a sell out ??? Was Du Bois was George Washington CArver ???

How bout the semi fictioanl Chicken George (I only ever watched three episodes of Roots) ??? When up to a 1/3 of the blacks in South Carolina ran to Freedom and the British.. HE fought for the Yanks and went back to slavery <span style="font-weight: bold">willingly</span>. Yet if he had gone over to the British he would have been instantly set free by his service .. Was he a sell out.. And Haely writing such a character is he a sell out as well ?????

Note in all of these I have tried to be careful not to call any one a sell out.. If I failed that was typically careless of me.. I merely pointed out action that in the popular culture of Urban American is called by the so called consious peoples actions of sell outs...

There is diversityo opnion ??? Was hte guys who spied on Garvey sell outs yes.. is the popular acclaim.. then does that make Du Bois and uncle Tom ??? he did it seems out in his intentions as a rallying point...

**barosa** · 07-10-2008, 06:18 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"> Note in all of these I have tried to be careful not to call any one a sell out.. If I failed that was typically careless of me.. I merely pointed out action that in the popular culture of Urban American is called by the so called consious peoples actions of sell outs...</span>

There is diversityo opnion ??? Was hte guys who spied on Garvey sell outs yes.. is the popular acclaim.. then does that make Du Bois and uncle Tom ??? he did it seems out in his intentions as a rallying point...</div></div>

Wahalla, neither one of us would have the time to ferret out everything pro and con that has ever been said about most famous people, let alone Paul Robeson. Negative things have been said about great leaders and others who made great contributions to their nation and people. The great William Jefferson one of the founding fathers among others, comes to mind... Paul Leroy Robeson is no exception...

One thing we do know about him, was that he was no ordinary joe. In the US of the 1920's and '30's when a black man rises above the level of "ordinary joe" and was acknowledge 'as such' within his own country in the period of Jim Crow, that my friend was a big deal... It's like a 3/5th human being in a relatively short time becomes more than the 100% applicable to average white citizens of his country.. Those were tough days for blacks to rise to any appreciable level in American society...

Because of who he was and the stature of the man, many including some of his own blacks believed he could "walk on water", could have delivered on their wishes when he could not. He had no politcal power, he was a lawyer who became a stage actor and a great baritone performer. They did not realized that the power of the stage and his performances could not be transformed into the "power" to free prisoners from the Soviet Gulag anymore than it could be done for Jim Crow prisoners in the South or for those destined to die from lynching in his own country...

In your previous post referencing (Black in Red by Robinson)Garvey described him as a "sell out". It seems to have been an off the cuff remark since there was no telling of what the "sell ou" was about. It's funny, but I found it so ironic that our dear hero Marcus, was himself called a "sell out" by many including some who were close to him when things went contrary to expectations prior to and during his period of incarceration and trials in the US... Those were also tough days for Garvey. I have just about decide to let "sleeping dogs lie" on this and will leave you and others a link of Paul's biography.

http://homepage.sunrise.ch/homepage/comtex/rob3.htm

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**Wahalla** · 07-10-2008, 06:23 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

I have read Robesons Biography....

**Wahalla** · 07-11-2008, 07:40 AM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Because of who he was and the stature of the man, many including some of his own blacks believed he could "walk on water", could have delivered on their wishes when he could not. He had no politcal power, he was a lawyer who became a stage actor and a great baritone performer. They did not realized that the power of the stage and his performances could not be transformed into the "power" to free prisoners from the Soviet Gulag anymore than it could be done for Jim Crow prisoners in the South or for those destined to die from lynching in his own country...</div></div>

I dont beleive Robveson passed the Bar...

Also the case I mention the man was not in the Gulag. He was living with his passport gone...... He was a factory worker whom Robeson had used as an example of the how wonderful live would be under the soviets.. giving this man to show that a black man.... That he prefered the soviets to Jim Crow... economical with the truth or what....

I like this expression all the people who are called sell outs have the fulfilled the same failure of expectation ie as you put it <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some of his own blacks believed he could "walk on water", </div></div>

So if all of these failed to deliver the expectation are they not in the same class as Robeson...

My postions is there are only compromiser, cowards or collaborators... as distateful and personally repugant as this may be <span style="color: #FF0000">We are all guilty of it </span>By spreading painting people we disagree wioth with terms such as Uncle Tom or Sell out, we simply dont addres their perspective or the actions that re..I can demonstrate that the Saintly "Tousaint" could be classified as a sell out.... Was Robeson a good person, yes I could tell you an infinate number of incidents that demonstrate this. More than you.. His support of the Republican movent is Spain is an issue close to my heart and my life.... Yet he never cam out and condemned what he saw in Spain done by those irrational left wingers.... Because he had issues in common with them else where.. He compromised..... <span style="font-weight: bold">Does this belittle him as a paragon of virtue ?????</span>

And I could do the same for Tiger Woods Gandhi or Mandela as to their generosity of spirit, their superior humanity and their ultimate morality. ... What I object to both from a viseral and a interlectual perspective is the need to demonise a character by simply the use of the term "Sell out"....

**barosa** · 07-13-2008, 05:08 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">His support of the Republican movent is Spain is an issue close to my heart and my life.... <span style="font-weight: bold">Yet he never cam out and condemned what he saw in Spain done by those irrational left wingers.... Because he had issues in common with them else where.. He compromised..... Does this belittle him as a paragon of virtue ?????</span>

And I could do the same for Tiger Woods Gandhi or Mandela as to their generosity of spirit, their superior humanity and their ultimate morality. ... What I object to both from a viseral and a interlectual perspective is the need to demonise a character by simply the use of the term "Sell out"....</div></div>

Wahalla, from your above conclusions drawn, I must say that I concur with them. Who could take issue with your emphasis on "he compromised"?... This has always been a factor, not only in our private lives but in the affairs of men and nations. "Compromised" used in some sense may mean loss of honour for some, in other situations, it mean progress, such as <span style="font-weight: bold">a compromise has been reached,</span> which in most cases is a good thing... Bottom line is, we are all practitioners of "compromising" in one way or another as we go along in our daily lives... You made your point, Good Debate!!!
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**barosa** · 07-13-2008, 05:40 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

Now that we have exhausted just about many of the popular famous black Non sell outs, we would be remiss if we did not include HARRY BELAFONTE... When we look back on his years of contribution, dedication and service to various causes, he truly deserves to be among the elites. He was among those at the side of Martin Luther King during the Civil Rights Struggle, led by example and paved the way for many in folk arts and entertainment in general... Harold George BELAFONTE.
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**julie*mango** · 07-14-2008, 07:33 AM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now that we have exhausted just about many of the popular famous black Non sell outs, we would be remiss if we did not include HARRY BELAFONTE... When we look back on his years of contribution, dedication and service to various causes, he truly deserves to be among the elites. He was among those at the side of Martin Luther King during the Civil Rights Struggle, led by example and paved the way for many in folk arts and entertainment in general... Harold George BELAFONTE.
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yes he was mentioned back in the sellout thread...as a non-sellout of course

**barosa** · 07-14-2008, 05:55 PM

Re: Famous black non sell outs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes he was mentioned back in the sellout thread...as a non-sellout of course</div></div>

Yes Skelly, Belafonte was mentioned in the other thread. Because it was" the "Sell-out thread" and he was lumped in with some who were considered sell-outs I overlooked the fact that you were touting him as a "Non-Sell-out" along with Sidney Potier... Anyhow, I hope you agree that Belafonte deserves to be in this, the Non-Sell-out thread...
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Famous black non sell outs

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