Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&R Summer Event

[Diplomat]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So, for example, if Chrisitanity teaches to &quot;love thy neighbour as thyself&quot; and a professed believer goes out and paint racial slurs on his neighbour's fence, or worse yet, bed his neighbour's wife, is it the religion that is at fault or it is the failure of the believer to adhere to its principles? </div></div>

I would say in that case that the religion has failed,in the example you gave many believers has done exactly the same thing .......in defense of religion,..I tend to see it in terms of a believer painting &quot;love thy neighbor&quot; on his neighbor`s crisp new fence,..the message gets lost in the action,and the core principles loses credibility....you`ve only got to take the murderous rampage of the crusaders as an example of what I mean,or the church of england justifying slavery. </div></div>
Mmm....OK. Some dogmatic atheists have long abandoned the argument of using slavery and evil as proof of anything related to God/christianity. It is what Anthony Flew described as &quot;juvenile insistence&quot; in explaining why he dropped those arguments, but but let's move on.

If you could put a &quot;label&quot; on it, would you describe yourself as an atheist or an agnostic?

[Compry]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Newtral... </div></div>

Hi cus Compray. </div></div>

I wasn't going to ask any questions since you stated that you wouldn't be available....but I'm curious why two parents who do not believe in God enrolled and allow their child to attend a Catholic School.

Unless it's different in your neck of the woods but are you aware that they commence each day with prayers and thanksgiving to God?

[Blackstar*]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While we can agree that practitioners of a religion may not be the most faithful of adherents, do you think it is fair to &quot;judge&quot; Christianity, or any other religion, by the actions of its practitioners instead of it's core principles?

<span style="font-weight: bold">thats a difficult question for me,if I was being honest i would say yes it is fair to judge christianity,..whats the point of having core principles when hardly any of its adherents seem able to adhere to them. </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">if the actions of its practioners were the only yardstick on which to judge christianity then yes I am afraid that it doesnt look good,...however, admittedly there are some decent core principles,but you dont have to believe in a god to follow those.</span> </div></div>
Interesting question and answer; you've both given me much to think about.

[neutral]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If you could put a &quot;label&quot; on it, would you describe yourself as an atheist or an agnostic? </div></div>

I would have to say an atheist given the dictionary`s definition,..which is a person who doesnt believe in god.

[neutral]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Newtral... </div></div>

Hi cus Compray. </div></div>

I wasn't going to ask any questions since you stated that you wouldn't be available....but I'm curious why two parents who do not believe in God enrolled and allow their child to attend a Catholic School.

Unless it's different in your neck of the woods but are you aware that they commence each day with prayers and thanksgiving to God? </div></div>

It doesnt bother either of us that the school is catholic,its a pretty good school,we preffered it to the alternatives which didnt seem to be performing as well academically,and as CEW pointed out earlier,there are some good core principles at the heart of cristianity,...and as I responded,..you dont have to believe in a god to follow any,..just be a good person,which we wish our daughter to be.

I am aware that they commence each day with prayers and thanksgivings,and if my child was to come home and say she believed in god then that would be her choice,she is free to make up her mind either way,we have never tried to influence her or force our non belief on her.

[tsophra]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-weight: bold">if the actions of its practioners were the only yardstick on which to judge christianity then yes I am afraid that it doesnt look good,...however, admittedly there are some decent core principles,but you dont have to believe in a god to follow those.</span> </span>

</div></div>


eggzackly

question fe yu Newt...I'm a non-beliver myself...BUT sometimes don't things happen or work out a certain way..that make yu really wanda if just maybe there isn't someone &quot;steering the boat&quot;? 9and i'm not talking w/o the trappings of religion)

[neutral]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Newt- out of curiousity, why Catholic School, and what is that like these days curriculum wise? </div></div>

We live in a very small village,and the school was literally a few metres away from our home,..when our daughter first started nursery school it was kind of taken for granted that she would begin at that school even though it was catholic,....this school also acts as a &quot;feeder school&quot; to the catholic science college she now attends,it only accepts children from other catholic schools,...we were happy for her to attend it as its got an excellent academic reputation.

The curriculum is pretty much the same as other non catholic comprehensives,the usual subjects,although as you would expect there is a big emphasis on religious education,the feedback I get from my daughter is that hardly any of the kids takes it very serious.

[neutral]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-weight: bold">if the actions of its practioners were the only yardstick on which to judge christianity then yes I am afraid that it doesnt look good,...however, admittedly there are some decent core principles,but you dont have to believe in a god to follow those.</span> </span>

</div></div>


eggzackly

question fe yu Newt...I'm a non-beliver myself...BUT sometimes don't things happen or work out a certain way..that make yu really wanda if just maybe there isn't someone &quot;steering the boat&quot;? 9and i'm not talking w/o the trappings of religion) </div></div>

Yes,you are right on that,I do wonder at the way some things work out sometime,...and its difficult to explain it to a believer without being accused of being either an hypocrite,...or it validating their belief that it is indeed a god steering the boat.
As I said earlier,I still marvel at the way the moon lights up the sky,and the sun lights up the day,and the way flowers bloom,and we have everything available to us on earth in order to survive as if it was all simply placed there for us to ,..it is truly amazing.....but I dont accept that it was as a result of a god designing it all.

[Compry]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still marvel at the way the moon lights up the sky,and the sun lights up the day,and the way flowers bloom,and we have everything available to us on earth in order to survive as if it was all simply placed there for us to ,..it is truly amazing.....but I dont accept that it was as a result of a god designing it all. </div></div>

Newtral, thanks for taking the time to respond to my question.

The section quoted caught my eye. I am somewhat of a nature lover. I love to sit by the lake, listen to the water kiss the rocks, look at the trees all around me swaying sometimes as if they are worshipping something or someone, birds chirping, etc. I must admit at times I wonder if the God of Genesis didn't create all of this, who did? Let's face it, there must be a creator for anything that is created.

My question is, since you do not accept that God created all this, who or what do you think created it?

[tsophra]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-weight: bold">if the actions of its practioners were the only yardstick on which to judge christianity then yes I am afraid that it doesnt look good,...however, admittedly there are some decent core principles,but you dont have to believe in a god to follow those.</span> </span>

</div></div>


eggzackly

question fe yu Newt...I'm a non-beliver myself...BUT sometimes don't things happen or work out a certain way..that make yu really wanda if just maybe there isn't someone &quot;steering the boat&quot;? 9and i'm not talking w/o the trappings of religion) </div></div>

Yes,you are right on that,I do wonder at the way some things work out sometime,...and its difficult to explain it to a believer without being accused of being either an hypocrite,...or it validating their belief that it is indeed a god steering the boat.
As I said earlier,I still marvel at the way the moon lights up the sky,and the sun lights up the day,and the way flowers bloom,and we have everything available to us on earth in order to survive as if it was all simply placed there for us to ,..it is truly amazing.....but I dont accept that it was as a result of a god designing it all. </div></div>


yep..if you start going down that route..it's really not that different from earlier cultures...say the Ancient Greeks/Egyptians ..who invented deities to rationalise what to them was unexplainable

[neutral]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still marvel at the way the moon lights up the sky,and the sun lights up the day,and the way flowers bloom,and we have everything available to us on earth in order to survive as if it was all simply placed there for us to ,..it is truly amazing.....but I dont accept that it was as a result of a god designing it all. </div></div>

Newtral, thanks for taking the time to respond to my question.

The section quoted caught my eye. I am somewhat of a nature lover. I love to sit by the lake, listen to the water kiss the rocks, look at the trees all around me swaying sometimes as if they are worshipping something or someone, birds chirping, etc. I must admit at times I wonder if the God of Genesis didn't create all of this, who did? Let's face it, there must be a creator for anything that is created.

My question is, since you do not accept that God created all this, who or what do you think created it? </div></div>

I am an avid nature lover,I love natural beauty,my favourite pastime is to go somewhere quiet in the country and sit down and enjoy the smell,the sights,and the sounds.

I dont think any of this was created by anyone,I tend to believe its all a matter of evolution,us humans are frail creatures,we try to find meanings and answers for things we dont understand,naturally we create gods in our own image,some all powerful omnipotent being who is responsible for everything we see around us.

[neutral]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Interesting question and answer; you've both given me much to think about. </div></div>

I was down in your neck of the woods last week,I was going to take a short drive to pisa but settled for monte carlo instead,....£5 for a glass of cocoa cola,and a ferrari on every corner.

[rudemonk]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It doesnt bother either of us that the school is catholic,its a pretty good school,we preffered it to the alternatives which didnt seem to be performing as well academically,and as CEW pointed out earlier,there are some good core principles at the heart of cristianity,...and as I responded,..you dont have to believe in a god to follow any,..just be a good person,which we wish our daughter to be.

</div></div>

That's interesting, part of the Catholic catechism states that one does not need to be Christian, or Catholic to experience God's grace or participate in salvation. In other words, if you are good it is reserved for God to decide and not man. This often sends many evangelical and protestants into a panty twisting uproar.

[neutral]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It doesnt bother either of us that the school is catholic,its a pretty good school,we preffered it to the alternatives which didnt seem to be performing as well academically,and as CEW pointed out earlier,there are some good core principles at the heart of cristianity,...and as I responded,..you dont have to believe in a god to follow any,..just be a good person,which we wish our daughter to be.

</div></div>

That's interesting, part of the Catholic catechism states that one does not need to be Christian, or Catholic to experience God's grace or participate in salvation. In other words, if you are good it is reserved for God to decide and not man. This often sends many evangelical and protestants into a panty twisting uproar. </div></div>

Well these guys obviously hadnt heard about this because as a condition of being accepted at the school my daughter had to be baptised and given the full catholic works,there`s some fancy names that I cant recall but it did entail some pretty formal churchy stuff.

[rudemonk]

Re: Welcome.... *NEWTRIMENT* ....F&amp;R Summer Event

well they will definitely try to get you on board, lmao...make no mistake about that.

it's just that they hold out the chance that if you are not christian God can still take you into heaven at the final shebang.