Forgiveness

[britisha]

What is your concept of Forgiveness?

Can one forgive others without being able to forgive ONE's-self?

Many Christians pray the &quot;Lord's Prayer&quot; daily quoting the line: <span style="font-weight: bold">As we forgive those who trespass against us/as we forgive our debtors</span>..still yet they come off as the most unforgiving souls that ever lived...why? Is forgiving such a hard thing to do?

If God is to forgive us based on [as] our forgiving others, what chances do we have to be forgiven?


tbc

[DC]

Re: Forgiveness

We have had quite few discussions on this wonderful topic, but it can never be exhaustive..always learn something new!

I think it is not true forgiveness if you can <span style="font-style: italic">forgive</span> others but not one's self. Maybe the question is, how does one go about forgiving oneself?

My opinion-the depth of forgiveness is contingent upon the degree of the relationship. In other words, methinks sometimes it is easy to forgive someone we are unfamiliar with than to forgive our friend/families, because of the strong bonds of trust in that type relationship. In this case, I think it is ab very challenging process. Some do readily forgive, as in instantaneous, and for others, forgiveness can be a process. I think what matters is that a decision was made to forgive. The decision is the important factor here, and acting on that decision is brave, and the most important factor.

A dat mi think!..

<span style="font-style: italic">What's up britisha?!! long time no see...I forgive you </span>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Forgiveness

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is your concept of Forgiveness?

Can one forgive others without being able to forgive ONE's-self?

Many Christians pray the &quot;Lord's Prayer&quot; daily quoting the line: <span style="font-weight: bold">As we forgive those who trespass against us/as we forgive our debtors</span>..still yet they come off as the most unforgiving souls that ever lived...why? Is forgiving such a hard thing to do?

If God is to forgive us based on [as] our forgiving others, what chances do we have to be forgiven?


tbc </div></div>As soon as youb cpme to the point where you recognize tht the place youbwer at the time you dod the forfivable act,is not the same place you are today. you have come a long way. Si you have to trrat is as you would when you compare your stages in school. the abillity you have as a senior,is way ahead of the place you were as ajunior.you woildnt expect to judge your action the same. well life is a process pf advancement,and you cannot judge a behavior done at a point wher you were nit as aware as you are today with today's abillity to act.
then you will be able toforgive thy less mature you. and start enjoy the more mature you.you can.t fit in the person you were before, because you are always growing.

[britisha]

Re: Forgiveness

Howdy DC...mi stepping softlie chru dah chulips dung here. I can well imagine that this topic was discussed befor; and not having bin down these pawts recently, I missed it.

After witnessing and hearing of some things, it crossed my mind that many [not all] of the problems in the world today are related to people being unforgiving.

Thanks Doc for your response. Layter I will add anodda 2 cents...have a good day.

[rufian]

Re: Forgiveness

forgiveness means not holding on to the effects of an act done against me, bearing malice and hatred. For my own good I must never forget the act itself neither must I allow it to re-occur

[britisha]

Re: Forgiveness

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have had quite few discussions on this wonderful topic, but it can never be exhaustive..always learn something new!

I think it is not true forgiveness if you can <span style="font-style: italic">forgive</span> others but not one's self. Maybe the question is, how does one go about forgiving oneself?

My opinion-the depth of forgiveness is contingent upon the degree of the relationship. In other words, methinks sometimes it is easy to forgive someone we are unfamiliar with than to forgive our friend/families, because of the strong bonds of trust in that type relationship. In this case, I think it is ab very challenging process. Some do readily forgive, as in instantaneous, and for others, forgiveness can be a process. I think what matters is that a decision was made to forgive. The decision is the important factor here, and acting on that decision is brave, and the most important factor.

A dat mi think!..

<span style="font-style: italic">What's up britisha?!! long time no see...I forgive you </span>

</div></div>

Had a little more time to reflect on your post here DC...it sounds good...however, while reading now, I see where you stated that forgiveness can be &quot;a very challenging process&quot;....[I agree] and immediately my mind went back to the story when Jesus said that we must forgive our brothers &quot;70x7&quot; =490 times.


I guess the Good Master knew how hard it is to let go of the &quot;hurt&quot; which might make it difficult to forgive in the first place.

[britisha]

Re: Forgiveness

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">forgiveness means not holding on to the effects of an act done against me, bearing malice and hatred. For my own good I must never forget the act itself neither must I allow it to re-occur </div></div>

Another good point Sukuna...and you now raised another question indirectly...can we forgive and forget? Most likely you have heard the saying, &quot;I will forgive, but not forget&quot;.

I will have to give the last part of your statement more thought about not allowing it to re-occur; for the simple reason that people might do hurtful things to others over and over and over again, and the recipient of such treatment is in NO position to curb or change that person's actions because of the relationship eg one has more power in the relationship like wicked parents who ruin their children's lives eg crackheads/winos or just plain wicked people/ parents.

btw, as you well know Sukuna, holding on to malice and hatred is not only counterproductive, but dangerous since it can cause many emotional and physical problems.

I will leave this here for now...but something else came to mind about not allowing it to happen again.

[britisha]

Re: Forgiveness

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is your concept of Forgiveness?

Can one forgive others without being able to forgive ONE's-self?

Many Christians pray the &quot;Lord's Prayer&quot; daily quoting the line: <span style="font-weight: bold">As we forgive those who trespass against us/as we forgive our debtors</span>..still yet they come off as the most unforgiving souls that ever lived...why? Is forgiving such a hard thing to do?

If God is to forgive us based on [as] our forgiving others, what chances do we have to be forgiven?


tbc </div></div>As soon as youb cpme to the point where you recognize tht the place youbwer at the time you dod the forfivable act,is not the same place you are today. you have come a long way. Si you have to trrat is as you would when you compare your stages in school. the abillity you have as a senior,is way ahead of the place you were as ajunior.you woildnt expect to judge your action the same. well life is a process pf advancement,and you cannot judge a behavior done at a point wher you were nit as aware as you are today with today's abillity to act.
then you will be able toforgive thy less mature you. and start enjoy the more mature you.you can.t fit in the person you were before, because you are always growing. </div></div>

If I understand what you are saying Doc..it sounds easier said than done...not that it doesn't make any sense...but if this is the case....why do people harp on what they did eg 10/20 years or longer when the act is already done and they cannot UNDO it? Why do they spend so much time malingering over it?

I am inclined to think that when Jesus said that we should forgive our brother 70x7, as I said before it is because HE knew that it won't be easy; and <span style="font-style: italic">our personal unforgiving of SELF,</span> somehow enters the equation...something buried in the psyche; that withholds us from forgiving others. (easily, if at all)

[Compry]

Re: Forgiveness

This past Sunday, Pastor spoke on forgiveness. We've been going through a series on love in which he uses the movie Fireproof as reference.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Side note:</span> <span style="font-style: italic"> I highly recommend the book, The Love Dare and the movie Fireproof for the married folks and those getting married.</span>

Pastor used the scriptures, Matthew 18:21-35 and 2 Corinthians 2:10-11. He gave five points on how to forgive.

1. We must make a decision to forgive and do it immediately. No waiting around.

(Britisha, I've heard from folks several times that I forgive quickly. I have to because I need to be forgiven quickly as well. Also, I love the freedom of living without a weight on my shoulder.)

2. We must say the words. He encouraged the church to literally say the words, &quot;I FORGIVE YOU&quot;.

3. We must actually forgive. We need to put hurts and revenge aside.

4. Forgive completely. Just as God forgave us, we must also forgive.

Paraphrasing something I read some years ago, we cannot expect forgiveness if we are not willing to forgive and forgive completely.

5. We must forgive repeatedly. If necessary, we need to continually peel away layers of hurts and pains until we are free.

[britisha]

Re: Forgiveness

Thank you for that Compray. 2 more cents later.

[rufian]

Re: Forgiveness

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
btw, as you well know Sukuna, holding on to malice and hatred is not only counterproductive, but dangerous since it can cause many emotional and physical problems. </div></div>

Sometimes we also have to check ourselves and look at why certain things hurt us. It is not always somebody doing us, it could be self-inflicted, it could be us doing them and so on... It could even result from mis-understandings

[britisha]

Re: Forgiveness

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
btw, as you well know Sukuna, holding on to malice and hatred is not only counterproductive, but dangerous since it can cause many emotional and physical problems. </div></div>

Sometimes we also have to check ourselves and look at why certain things hurt us. It is not always somebody doing us, it could be self-inflicted, it could be us doing them and so on... It could even result from mis-understandings </div></div>

Well said, this is yyy people must speak their minds CLEARLY as best as possible so that others won't be confused as to what they are really saying...afterall, many battles have started over people speaking in &quot;parables&quot;...&quot;axis of evil&quot; comes to mind...it is always good to ask for clarification, no matter how one like look in so doing.

[britisha]

Re: Forgiveness

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This past Sunday, Pastor spoke on forgiveness. We've been going through a series on love in which he uses the movie Fireproof as reference.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Side note:</span> <span style="font-style: italic"> I highly recommend the book, The Love Dare and the movie Fireproof for the married folks and those getting married.</span>

Pastor used the scriptures, Matthew 18:21-35 and 2 Corinthians 2:10-11. He gave five points on how to forgive.

1. We must make a decision to forgive and do it immediately. No waiting around.

(Britisha, I've heard from folks several times that I forgive quickly. I have to because I need to be forgiven quickly as well. Also, I love the freedom of living without a weight on my shoulder.)

2. We must say the words. He encouraged the church to literally say the words, &quot;I FORGIVE YOU&quot;.

3. We must actually forgive. We need to put hurts and revenge aside.

4. Forgive completely. Just as God forgave us, we must also forgive.

Paraphrasing something I read some years ago, we cannot expect forgiveness if we are not willing to forgive and forgive completely.

5. We must forgive repeatedly. If necessary, we need to continually peel away layers of hurts and pains until we are free.

</div></div>

Nothing to add, well said.

[rufian]

Re: Forgiveness

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
btw, as you well know Sukuna, holding on to malice and hatred is not only counterproductive, but dangerous since it can cause many emotional and physical problems. </div></div>

Sometimes we also have to check ourselves and look at why certain things hurt us. It is not always somebody doing us, it could be self-inflicted, it could be us doing them and so on... It could even result from mis-understandings </div></div>

Well said, this is yyy people must speak their minds CLEARLY as best as possible so that others won't be confused as to what they are really saying...afterall, many battles have started over people speaking in &quot;parables&quot;...&quot;axis of evil&quot; comes to mind...it is always good to ask for clarification, no matter how one like look in so doing. </div></div>


and wa happen when people drop wud pan de other people dem say speak in parables? dropping wud is a signal that evil intentions are meant more than it is speaking in parables.

but wait, is not our culture full of nothing but parables?????????

some people understand parables, some dont. that na mean dem dat na understand must start attack people

[britisha]

Re: Forgiveness

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
btw, as you well know Sukuna, holding on to malice and hatred is not only counterproductive, but dangerous since it can cause many emotional and physical problems. </div></div>

Sometimes we also have to check ourselves and look at why certain things hurt us. It is not always somebody doing us, it could be self-inflicted, it could be us doing them and so on... It could even result from mis-understandings </div></div>

Well said, this is yyy people must speak their minds CLEARLY as best as possible so that others won't be confused as to what they are really saying...afterall, many battles have started over people speaking in &quot;parables&quot;...&quot;axis of evil&quot; comes to mind...it is always good to ask for clarification, no matter how one like look in so doing. </div></div>


and wa happen when people drop wud pan de other people dem say speak in parables? dropping wud is a signal that evil intentions are meant more than it is speaking in parables.

but wait, is not our culture full of nothing but parables?????????

some people understand parables, some dont. that na mean dem dat na understand must start attack people
[/quote]

**chukkle** true to an extent...whole heap of lives have been lost on and off the battlefield because of &quot;words&quot;..OTOH...&quot;dropping of words&quot; is not necessarily speaking in parables imo..[anadda tappick]...but mi haffie ask yuh diss...yuh been looking in the mirror lately? look suh...**chukkle*...