opposition to foreign investment

[RichD]

Re: opposition to foreign investment

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but you make it sound like there is only a down side

[/ QUOTE ] sometimes your one-liners just dont do it for me... what are you talking about? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70367-help.gif[/img]

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i was replying to this post:

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I think that the knowledge of the effects of developement are not usually readily available to the general population in Jamaica...


[/ QUOTE ] the poster made it sound as though if the knowledge of the effects of develoment were
availabe to general jamica populus they would not be quite as ready to embrace it


to me that suggested that the effects of develoment are predominantly negative.

[Ja. Jewel]

Re: opposition to foreign investment

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but you make it sound like there is only a down side

[/ QUOTE ] sometimes your one-liners just dont do it for me... what are you talking about? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70367-help.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

i was replying to this post:

[ QUOTE ]
I think that the knowledge of the effects of developement are not usually readily available to the general population in Jamaica...


[/ QUOTE ]
availabe to general jamica populus they would not be quite as ready to embrace it


to me that suggested that the effects of develoment are predominantly negative.
the poster made it sound as though if the knowledge of the effects of develoment were

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring to "unconscious" developement....hopefully, there are some investors that would make a conscious effort to preserve the environment.

[RichD]

Re: opposition to foreign investment

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I was referring to "unconscious" developement....hopefully, there are some investors that would make a conscious effort to preserve the environment.

[/ QUOTE ] isnt that were government regulations are suposed to come into play? proper regulation and oversigt is required. if you think the government is incapable of this then i can understand the hesitation at encouraging investment.
but if this is the case dont blame the investor..blame the representatives....business is gogint o try to cut as many corners as the law allows.

[Ja. Jewel]

Re: opposition to foreign investment

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was referring to "unconscious" developement....hopefully, there are some investors that would make a conscious effort to preserve the environment.

[/ QUOTE ] isnt that were government regulations are suposed to come into play? proper regulation and oversigt is required. if you think the government is incapable of this then i can understand the hesitation at encouraging investment.
but if this is the case dont blame the investor..blame the representatives....business is gogint o try to cut as many corners as the law allows.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, of course the govt. agencies for preservation of the environment SHOULD make certain that all regulations are upheld...I don't feel qualified enough to express my own pov here, about these govt. agencies, but would like to hear from others.

I will say that I am all for "conscious" developement, but agree that Jamaicans should be employed whenever possible....Jamaica must move forward.

[rudemonk]

Re: opposition to foreign investment

[ QUOTE ]
Jamaica turning away black British investors
Diane Abbott
Sunday, November 20, 2005


On the other hand they had all tried, and failed, to invest in Jamaica and had been disappointed by the support and response they received from Jamaican institutions. They all had similar stories to tell.

Their initial contact with JAMPRO and other institutions in London were always disappointing. It was difficult to get these organisations to return their calls. They had to be extremely persistent to even get someone to talk them.

At least two became so fed up with phone calls that were not returned that they flew to Jamaica at their own expense to see if they might have better luck. But even in Jamaica trying to get interest in their willingness to invest was difficult. Getting meetings was tortuous, getting them followed-up was worse. Without exception they had given up....


...The question is why is Jamaica apparently so unresponsive to small and medium sized black businessmen and women who want to invest there? I believe that part of the answer is deep in the Jamaican institutional psyche.

I think that, while Jamaican financial institutions are very happy to take the money of the Jamaican Diaspora, when it comes to dealing with British business too many Jamaican officials seem to believe that the only businesses worth dealing with is white-led ones.

If you are a multi-millionaire that is one thing. But small to medium-sized black business are not seen as significant. The new Jamaican high commissioner in London, Gail Mathurin takes a different view but it seems that this has yet to percolate down.

And there are also general problems of inefficiency which you find in the public sector all over the world and, sadly, in some parts of the Jamaican public sector. But I was struck by how many of these business people reported a very different response from South Africa. Calls were returned promptly.

Meetings with the right officials were easy to arrange both here and in South Africa. And, far from the initial approach being ignored, the initial phone call triggered a cascade of responses, not just from the official you may have approached in the first place but from a range of persons and organisations trying to encourage inward investment in South Africa.

I think that small to medium-sized black-led businesses and black consultants have a lot to offer Jamaica. Small to medium- sized businesses are more likely to create quality jobs than big multinationals that might contribute more numbers to Jamaica's gross national product but are not creating jobs for the people.

Also businessmen and women of Jamaican origin are willing to look beyond the screaming headlines about crime, and even accept a marginally lower rate of return on their investment because of their love of, and loyalty to, the country.

I do not want to decry Jamaican officials who all work very hard for their country. But I do think that there should be more top officials appointed and consultants employed who have a real understanding of the Jamaican Diaspora.

Jamaica should be open for business, not just for big multi-nationals and people who know the right people, but for any entrepreneur with the interest and the enthusiasm.

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What are your views on Abbot's commentary? Rubbish or grain of truth?

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Well Mr. Abbot apparently has not built a big enough case study. This is a common issue when dealing in Jamaica. NOBODY returns either calls or emails, rare to receive an answer to a proposal, and half the time an answer is tendered it is clear the proposal or email was never even read by the calibre of the response or because you find their money spent on idiocy with no ROI.

It's not uncommon to get bounced from person to person, and then again. Trying to get appointments...lmao...you have to sit in until someone sees you. Better luck sometimes if you know which restaurant to eat in. You could go through a round of 5 people, each will have the information but none can deal with you or will pass the info to who needs it even though they should assist in this kind of thing. And if your project involves different departments...it's got no legs.

I have books worth of stories. Contracts being drawn with wrong names, dates, places...

You must be there to handle things, in person. Simple things- here is a quick story of what I mean and forgive me I must generalize- a sign needed to be hung. There is no way senior management or senior partners should be bogged down in that. Well, the sign never did get hung. Then it was hung, the team hanging it decided to knock wind holes, so it would not blow down. That's nice, but they knocked such holes to make the sign illegible. Now senior management learned their lesson, the sign had to be replaced- now the cost of the signs, the crew to hang again, and they now oversee sign hanging regarding this project. Costly.

Generally speaking support for businesses wishing to conduct business is hard to find on many levels. I no longer wait for anyone to assist me if I can help it, I just help myself and come hell or highwater try and succeed. You just have to do it, and find what support you can on your own- often you will be unsupported and you just have to face that fact, and just have to figure out things on your own or just do them like I said and find out later if something was wrong or what have you.

Of course this sounds bleak and of course it is exaagerated, there are people who are proactive and recently my own business has clicked with quite a few.

I can't see how it makes much difference or if it really matters if the business is white led or black led- I think Mr. Abbot is victim of a culture of whiteness when he posits that. Really, it doesn't matter who you are. I am aware of several business men- what I would call white groups or identify as black groups, who basically gave up due to the issues that each group or mixed group encountered as par for the course. Color probably matters a little according to individual experiences or an overall effect of whiteness across the board, but I have seen white business, chiney business, black business- everyone generally can cite the same basic experiences and we all laugh and complain and trade war stories about it, foreign and local business, doesn't matter. My business associates are all mixed peoples some local some from abroad and everyone has experienced this general malaise and has devised work-arounds. It doesn't matter who you are seeing or dealing with. You know sometimes people do not say goodbye when they hang up- this took one of my associates quite some time to come to grips with, he thought lines were dropping, people were rude, uninterested, all kinds of things ran through his head, some problems are cultural. His Jamaican counterpart would find the conversation done and hang up- he would call back, in essence to just say "good bye" lol...ironically I knew an initiative was going to be successful when my counterpart and I began "hanging up" on each other, lol...

It is very rare to work with someone who does return or reply to emails, or proactively handles communications, or actively assists in business matters. I am making it sound bad here- it's just that it is very frustrating at times and requires a lot of tenacity to the point that it is no wonder to me people leave off and make their business elsewhere. Everyone knows this is how things are. Even when you lodge complaints the response is usually a shrug, or smile and chuckle.

If I am not personally there, I can only be surprised when something gets done...or I must know who I need to have do what, to see it done.

For example, I have one initiative, I mean it is practically comical. I tried normal channels of development for MONTHS, literally months. Like Abbot's people, flew down, rounds of meetings...everything sorted and agreed in meeting and when I left I knew nothing would be able to happen until I went back. Not a single thing from the meeting ever materialized from the J end. And even upon my return then, nothing has moved to the point where now I must exercise connections and call in a favor. If that were my sole enterprise or did not have the mentality to work around, I would be gone too.

[SataMasagana]

Re: opposition to foreign investment

[ QUOTE ]

Well Mr. Abbot apparently has not built a big enough case study. This is a common issue when dealing in Jamaica. NOBODY returns either calls or emails, rare to receive an answer to a proposal, and half the time an answer is tendered it is clear the proposal or email was never even read by the calibre of the response or because you find their money spent on idiocy with no ROI.

It's not uncommon to get bounced from person to person, and then again. Trying to get appointments...lmao...you have to sit in until someone sees you. Better luck sometimes if you know which restaurant to eat in. You could go through a round of 5 people, each will have the information but none can deal with you or will pass the info to who needs it even though they should assist in this kind of thing. And if your project involves different departments...it's got no legs.

I have books worth of stories. Contracts being drawn with wrong names, dates, places...

You must be there to handle things, in person. Simple things- here is a quick story of what I mean and forgive me I must generalize- a sign needed to be hung. There is no way senior management or senior partners should be bogged down in that. Well, the sign never did get hung. Then it was hung, the team hanging it decided to knock wind holes, so it would not blow down. That's nice, but they knocked such holes to make the sign illegible. Now senior management learned their lesson, the sign had to be replaced- now the cost of the signs, the crew to hang again, and they now oversee sign hanging regarding this project. Costly.

Generally speaking support for businesses wishing to conduct business is hard to find on many levels. I no longer wait for anyone to assist me if I can help it, I just help myself and come hell or highwater try and succeed. You just have to do it, and find what support you can on your own- often you will be unsupported and you just have to face that fact, and just have to figure out things on your own or just do them like I said and find out later if something was wrong or what have you.

Of course this sounds bleak and of course it is exaagerated, there are people who are proactive and recently my own business has clicked with quite a few.

I can't see how it makes much difference or if it really matters if the business is white led or black led- I think Mr. Abbot is victim of a culture of whiteness when he posits that. Really, it doesn't matter who you are. I am aware of several business men- what I would call white groups or identify as black groups, who basically gave up due to the issues that each group or mixed group encountered as par for the course. Color probably matters a little according to individual experiences or an overall effect of whiteness across the board, but I have seen white business, chiney business, black business- everyone generally can cite the same basic experiences and we all laugh and complain and trade war stories about it, foreign and local business, doesn't matter. My business associates are all mixed peoples some local some from abroad and everyone has experienced this general malaise and has devised work-arounds. It doesn't matter who you are seeing or dealing with. You know sometimes people do not say goodbye when they hang up- this took one of my associates quite some time to come to grips with, he thought lines were dropping, people were rude, uninterested, all kinds of things ran through his head, some problems are cultural. His Jamaican counterpart would find the conversation done and hang up- he would call back, in essence to just say "good bye" lol...ironically I knew an initiative was going to be successful when my counterpart and I began "hanging up" on each other, lol...

It is very rare to work with someone who does return or reply to emails, or proactively handles communications, or actively assists in business matters. I am making it sound bad here- it's just that it is very frustrating at times and requires a lot of tenacity to the point that it is no wonder to me people leave off and make their business elsewhere. Everyone knows this is how things are. Even when you lodge complaints the response is usually a shrug, or smile and chuckle.

If I am not personally there, I can only be surprised when something gets done...or I must know who I need to have do what, to see it done.

For example, I have one initiative, I mean it is practically comical. I tried normal channels of development for MONTHS, literally months. Like Abbot's people, flew down, rounds of meetings...everything sorted and agreed in meeting and when I left I knew nothing would be able to happen until I went back. Not a single thing from the meeting ever materialized from the J end. And even upon my return then, nothing has moved to the point where now I must exercise connections and call in a favor. If that were my sole enterprise or did not have the mentality to work around, I would be gone too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The basic most fundamental building block of doing good business is keeping your agreements.

The great model for keeping agreements that I know about is the diamond markets in NYC where fortunes in diamonds are bought and sold over the phone, and the diamonds are wrapped up in hankerchiefs and delivered as agreed on. http://www.religionomics.com/erel/S2...20Diamonds.pdf

When you keep your word, when you honor your agreements, whether they are to "love, and honor," or they are to arrive at work at 7:30 AM, at the work site, or to deliver the design on Monday morning, then your word becomes bankable.

It is hard to do business when keeping agreements is not respected. If you can't trust your contractors, or your partners, your bosses, or workers to do what they say they will do. Then chances are that your project wont be able to MAKE MONEY, and be succesful.

Plus, there are many many implied agreements when you do business, that are difficult for many to keep. Like not slacking off, or stealing, and being "on the same side," meaning wanting the the deal or project to work out according to plan.

But then this isnt something that you can teach... or learn.