The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

[servant]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

"Nature certainly exists, whether or not we perceive it. The question, I believe, is not that we perceive it, but how we conceive it."

He conceives of matter (nature) and spirit in these terms:

"The Hegelian philosophy is the last grand attempt to restore a lost and defunct Christianity through philosophy, and, of course, as is characteristic of the modern era, by identifying the negation of Christianity with Christianity itself. The much-extolled speculative identity of spirit and matter, of the infinite and the finite, of the divine and the human is nothing more than the wretched contradiction of the modern era having reached its zenith in metaphysics. It is the identity of belief and unbelief, theology and philosophy, religion and atheism, Christianity and paganism. This contradiction escapes the eye and is obfuscated in Hegel only through the fact that the negation of God, or atheism, is turned by him into an objective determination of God; God is determined as a process, and atheism as a moment within this process. But a belief that has been reconstructed out of unbelief is as little true belief — because it is always afflicted with its antithesis — as the God who has been reconstructed out of his negation is a true God; he is rather a self-contradictory, an atheistic God."

[RollinCalf]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

"I do not disagree with either of you."

I like the old servant better.

[RollinCalf]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

Sneaky, very sneaky servant. Smuggling God into the thread through the back door like that.

[servant]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

Not at all. It was, as they say, ahem...a, well.. logical progression [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[RollinCalf]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

How so.

[servant]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

All philosophical discourse is ultimately about God.

[jedi]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]All philosophical discourse is ultimately about God.[/qb]

Serrrrrvant!!!! Cho!!! chill nuh man. Easy, let us tek dis ting step by step, let us examine carefully all the evidence.

[RollinCalf]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]All philosophical discourse is ultimately about God.[/qb]

Naah. All philosophical discourse is ultimately about Plato and Aristotle.

[jedi]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

I only hope that there are other Christians following this discussion in here.

Here is a find I thought I would share with everyone:

Fragments From 1916

Wittgenstein:

What do I know about God and the purpose of life?

I know that this worlde exists.

That I am placed in it like my eye in its visual field.

That something about it is problematic, which we call its meaning.

That this meaning does not lie in it but outside it.

That life is the world.

That my will penetrates the world.

That my will is good or evil.

Therefore that good and evel are somehow connected wth the meaning of the world.

The meaning of life, i.e. the meaning of the world, we can call God.

And connect with this the comparison of God to a father.

To pray is to think about the meaning of life.

I cannot bend the happenings of the world of my will: I am completely powerless.

I can only make myself independent of the world-and so in a certain sense master it-by renouncing any influence on happenings.

To believe in a God means to understand the meaning of life.
To believe in God means to see that the facts of the world are not the end to the matter.
The world is give me, i.e. my will enters the world completely from the outside as into something that is already there.
(As for what my will is, I don't know yet)
However this may be, at any rate we are in a certain sense dependent, and what we are dependent on we can call God.
In this sense God would simply be fate, or, what is the sme thing The world - which is independent of our will.
I can make myself independent of fate.
There are two godheads, the world and my independent I.
...When my conscience uspets my equilibrium, then I am not in agreement with Something. But what is this? Is it the world?
Certainly it is correct to say: Conscience is the voice of God.
The solution to the problem of life is to be seen in the disappearance fo the problem.
Isn't this the reason why men to whom the meaning to life had become clear after long doubting could not say what this meaning consisted in?

It is true: Man is the microcosm:
I am my world.

[servant]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

Well RC, let me tie it all together for you.

I present to you Bertrand Russell, a philosopher, mathematician and atheist, who spent an inordinate amount of time writing many books, letters, monographs and speeches about a God that he did not think existed. Feuerbach describes his dialectic to a ‘T’.

Now, would it surprise you to know that said Russell wrote the introduction to Wittgenstein’s Tractatus ?

[RollinCalf]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

Man, I miss the name calling.

[Fledgist]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]All philosophical discourse is ultimately about God.[/qb]

Not at all. Philosophy is simply one of the ways that human beings can understand themselves and they world in which they live. Imaginary beings need not apply.

[Fledgist]

Re: The Seven Main Propositions of the Tractatus

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]"Nature certainly exists, whether or not we perceive it. The question, I believe, is not that we perceive it, but how we conceive it."

He conceives of matter (nature) and spirit in these terms:

"The Hegelian philosophy is the last grand attempt to restore a lost and defunct Christianity through philosophy, and, of course, as is characteristic of the modern era, by identifying the negation of Christianity with Christianity itself. The much-extolled speculative identity of spirit and matter, of the infinite and the finite, of the divine and the human is nothing more than the wretched contradiction of the modern era having reached its zenith in metaphysics. It is the identity of belief and unbelief, theology and philosophy, religion and atheism, Christianity and paganism. This contradiction escapes the eye and is obfuscated in Hegel only through the fact that the negation of God, or atheism, is turned by him into an objective determination of God; God is determined as a process, and atheism as a moment within this process. But a belief that has been reconstructed out of unbelief is as little true belief — because it is always afflicted with its antithesis — as the God who has been reconstructed out of his negation is a true God; he is rather a self-contradictory, an atheistic God."[/qb]

Interesting. Perfectly dialectical.