Re: Divine punishment?

[Diplomat]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by britisha:
[qb]...although I believe and know that there are insurmountable problems in life that seem to have no answer, and we are created with free will over most of what we do as mankind:

(a) indicting certain diseases as punishment from God is unfair and even fanatical and

(b) when man through his own sinfulness causes certain reactions, noone should blame God. [/qb]

I agree wholeheartedly. [/qb]

Even though this god of yours created the diseases? [/qb]

Who says?

[Fledgist]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by britisha:
[qb]...although I believe and know that there are insurmountable problems in life that seem to have no answer, and we are created with free will over most of what we do as mankind:

(a) indicting certain diseases as punishment from God is unfair and even fanatical and

(b) when man through his own sinfulness causes certain reactions, noone should blame God. [/qb]

I agree wholeheartedly. [/qb]

Even though this god of yours created the diseases? [/qb]

Who says? [/qb]

Your sacred book: John 1 iii.

[Diplomat]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW: Who says? [/qb]

Your sacred book: John 1 iii.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." God "made" any particular disease only to the extent that He allows it to be whereas in His soverignty He could have stopped it. It is illogical to think that a God who promises healing for diseases would turn around and create AIDS, SARS, or whatever just for the heck of it, so I do not subscribe to the notion that these are some form of "divine punishment".

Britisha asked a very important question earlier on which you deftly danced around. Bearing in mind the illogical perception that a God who sent His Son to the cross for our salvation and healing (Isaiah 55) would turn around and disregard that by afflicting diseases on mankind, if God does not exist, who do you blame these diseases on?

[wonbyone]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb] See Fledge, god's not human, so we can never understand him. He's way beyond us. But what ever he choses to do is perfect, and we should praise him and give him, or his servents at least 10% of our money. So because god makes EVERYTHING, he made SARS too. We should praise him for it, and let history try and sort out why. [/qb]

What is wrong with helping a family that loses their home and all their belongings in a fire? Or helping a heroin addict control his/her addiction? Or helping the family whose breadwinner has contracted cancer or aids as an example? Even though many condemn such things I do not see the evil in having compassion for those whom we may not even know. Why is it that helping those in need is so evil anyway? Titheing is a personal thing and should not concern those in the least who do not give freely to their brothers and sisters of the world.

[wonbyone]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by Brigadier H.O.:

AIDS was manufactured in a laboratory in the United States as a measure to control the population in Africa and to destabilize the African American community in the United States. It was spread by the WHO in small pox vaccinations.

No kidding! Bwoy that's mean of them UnitedStates people.

I guess there has been a cover-up too then? But wait...... are they going to come after us readers now that they know that we know what they did? [/qb]

So...it should be easy to prove such allegations simply by tracking how many World Health Organization employees got aids as well as those who received smallpox vacinations and promptly died from aids. If they were lucky enough to survive this long then they certainly have traces of the virus in their blood. These claims are very easy to prove. The question is what have the accusers been doing to prove it? Surely any of those that know the 'truth' and love to spread it about the world via the net would better serve the PEOPLE of this world by gathering the data. Gossip is of little value while actual service to the world's victims of aids would be invaluable not to mention worthy of at least the Nobel peace prize. Wonder why the USA infected US citizens? The expence is astronomical in terms of human and monetary suffering. Funny thing is that a large chunk of money is going into the fight against aids (another committment just announced) and yet smallpox and other diseases cause more deaths. Nobody seems to care though 'cause aids is the disease of the decade...it is the most popular although not the worst.

Bwoy, I did not infect anybody with aids as a US citizen. How about you, Fledge? How about the others living and working here as either a citizen or an evil visitor who supports the USA through their services? If the US is that evil then why do so many countries accept aid (not aids) from the USA? Is that a bit hypocritical? Love the USA long enough to receive what many call blood money and yet quickly divorce them as they enjoy cold, hard currency! Reconcilliation begins anew as the call for additional money goes out! Amazing indeed!

Amazing still is the fact that countries do not believe enough in their own government but support the USA. How many of the "Destroyer's" faces (he has many) graced the cash hidden away for a rainy day in Iraq? In God the "Destroyer" trusts! Funny how many trust God...what is in your wallet? I saw Saddam's likeness blowing about in the sand with not a soul scurrying to chase it down. So are those that support the US policies by accepting gifts any better than those that are citizens? Apparently a march on Kingston is in order to refuse world aid and a lockdown of the entire coast to prevent visitors and aid from evil countries from entering. Thank you for the tax cut!

[ohliz]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Here is a report from our local paper about a church group that came to our town (pop 5000) to protest...I'm not sure....gayness in general, the attitude of most churches in town towards homosexuality, a high school support group....something, I was out of town.

One of the signs they carried said "Thank God for 9/11".

When someone asked what they meant by that, they said they were thankful God was finally doing the wrath thing to show how angry he is that homosexuality is becoming more accepted.

Okay.....God's not mad that children are abused, people kill each other regularly, women are beaten by their husbands...but the gay thing? That makes him throw planes into tall buildings.

It was so ridiculous.

Here they are:

[ohliz]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Oops, forgot the article, and forgot that the reason I posted it was that they also carried signs that said as "Death Penalty to Fags" and "AIDS Cures People".

Article: http://www.newarkadvocate.com/granvi...ws/story1.html

[Fledgist]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW: Who says? [/qb]

Your sacred book: John 1 iii.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." God "made" any particular disease only to the extent that He allows it to be whereas in His soverignty He could have stopped it. It is


{Fledgist: This amounts to a claim that there is a second 'creator' who created the disease (virus/bacteria/plasmodium + impact on host organism).}

illogical to think that a God who promises healing for diseases would turn around and create AIDS, SARS, or whatever just for the heck of it, so I do not subscribe to the notion that these are some form of "divine punishment".


{Fledgist: Then where, in your scheme of things, do they come from? If they're not creatures of your god, what are they?}
Britisha asked a very important question earlier on which you deftly danced around. Bearing in mind the illogical perception that a God who sent His Son to the cross for our salvation and healing (Isaiah 55) would turn around and disregard that by afflicting diseases on mankind, if God does not exist, who do you blame these diseases on? [/qb]

Evolution. Life filling its multifarious roles.

But that isn't the issue here.

[Fledgist]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by Tim:
[qb]

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb] See Fledge, god's not human, so we can never understand him. He's way beyond us. But what ever he choses to do is perfect, and we should praise him and give him, or his servents at least 10% of our money. So because god makes EVERYTHING, he made SARS too. We should praise him for it, and let history try and sort out why. [/qb]

What is wrong with helping a family that loses their home and all their belongings in a fire? Or helping a heroin addict control his/her addiction? Or helping the family whose breadwinner has contracted cancer or aids as an example? Even though many condemn such things I do not see the evil in having compassion for those whom we may not even know. Why is it that helping those in need is so evil anyway? Titheing is a personal thing and should not concern those in the least who do not give freely to their brothers and sisters of the world. [/qb]

Cancer, HIV, etc not having been created by this god of yours?

[Fledgist]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by ohliz:
[qb] Here is a report from our local paper about a church group that came to our town (pop 5000) to protest...I'm not sure....gayness in general, the attitude of most churches in town towards homosexuality, a high school support group....something, I was out of town.

One of the signs they carried said "Thank God for 9/11".

When someone asked what they meant by that, they said they were thankful God was finally doing the wrath thing to show how angry he is that homosexuality is becoming more accepted.

Okay.....God's not mad that children are abused, people kill each other regularly, women are beaten by their husbands...but the gay thing? That makes him throw planes into tall buildings.

It was so ridiculous.

Here they are:

[/qb]

Ah, the Rev. Fred Phelps and his congregation at Westboro Baptist Church (http://www.godhatesfags.com/). Such fine, upstanding Christians. You might want to look at his website, which is truly disgusting; it makes me ashamed to be a member of the same species.

[Fledgist]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by Tim:
[qb]

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by Brigadier H.O.:

AIDS was manufactured in a laboratory in the United States as a measure to control the population in Africa and to destabilize the African American community in the United States. It was spread by the WHO in small pox vaccinations.

No kidding! Bwoy that's mean of them UnitedStates people.

I guess there has been a cover-up too then? But wait...... are they going to come after us readers now that they know that we know what they did? [/qb]

So...it should be easy to prove such allegations simply by tracking how many World Health Organization employees got aids as well as those who received smallpox vacinations and promptly died from aids. If they were lucky enough to survive this long then they certainly have traces of the virus in their blood. These claims are very easy to prove. The question is what have the accusers been doing to prove it? Surely any of those that know the 'truth' and love to spread it about the world via the net would better serve the PEOPLE of this world by gathering the data. Gossip is of little value while actual service to the world's victims of aids would be invaluable not to mention worthy of at least the Nobel peace prize. Wonder why the USA infected US citizens? The expence is astronomical in terms of human and monetary suffering. Funny thing is that a large chunk of money is going into the fight against aids (another committment just announced) and yet smallpox and other diseases cause more deaths. Nobody seems to care though 'cause aids is the disease of the decade...it is the most popular although not the worst.


{Fledgist: Please be so kind as to provide us with data on the number of people who have died of smallpox since 1980. For some reason my memory insists that it is a number smaller than five, all having been infected as a result of mishandling samples of the virus.

Smallpox, you see, has been extinct in nature since the end of the 1970s, and the World Health Organization proclaimed it eradicated in 1980 (http://www.who.int/archives/who50/en/smallpox.htm). To claim that it causes more deaths than HIV is an outright lie, and you should apologise.}


Bwoy, I did not infect anybody with aids as a US citizen. How about you, Fledge? How about the


{Fledgist: Are you accusing me of deliberately infecting somebody with HIV? If so, please provide the evidence. But given your outright lie, noted above, I don't expect you to.}

[/qb]

[ohliz]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

I never made the connection between the two....I've seen that site before.

It all makes sense now.

[britisha]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by ohliz:
[qb] Oops, forgot the article, and forgot that the reason I posted it was that they also carried signs that said as "Death Penalty to Fags" and "AIDS Cures People".

Article: http://www.newarkadvocate.com/granvi...ws/story1.html [/qb]

...and "Thank God for 9/11" etc. If these fanatics aren't delusional then noone is. To link or connect this monumental disaster with other people's sexual orientation demonstrates a mind-set that could lay "a hurt'n on someone"; (can you imagine them being health care workers taking care of gays?)

Calling for the death penalty of gays? Why? For what? This is the fanaticism that I am talking about.

This is what makes the topic so interesting and important, for more and more is being revealed re the hypocrisy of some who claim to be christians speaking for God....His wrath re 9/11. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Hush Fledgist, hang in there. Not all share their views.

[ohliz]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

I heard something funny on TV last night that sums up my attitude.

"I believe in God, but I don't believe all the people that say they work for Him really do".

Certainly not all share the views of that church. Even our town's most conservative churches, the Southern Baptist one and the Catholic one, condemned these people and their actions.

They got picketed right along with the liberal and mainstream churches [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Re: Divine punishment?

Originally posted by Fledgist:

Cancer, HIV, etc not having been created by this god of yours? [/QUOTE]

Whether or not the Christian god created Sars and AIDS isn't so important as to why he doesn't make them disappear. Plus, believers in Christianity were given the power to heal diseases. So not only does the Christian god not perform by using his power to make bad diseases disappear NOW, but the believers don't use their powers either.