How Much Faith Is Enough?

[Dailybread]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] Where faith is most exercised in God is by people who have had a "track record" with Him. We *know* He is going to come through, moreso than we know that Aunt Mary or Uncle Joe will. The person lacking in faith turns it the other way around; they are somewhat sure of Uncle Joe and Aunt Mary but not quite so sure about God. [/qb]

Well said I didn't read this prior to responding.

[Diplomat]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

Originally posted by Queen:

Originally posted by CEW:
Do you care to expand on this?

It's simple, since we all have a measure of faith, the prayer then, should consist of asking God to show us how to use what's already there. How to go about exercising this faith, the favour (grace) to do so in a wise manner. Once we start to see faith in action, our confidence level in God and our faith rises and the exercise becomes less complicated in our minds.

If a person asks God to show them how to use what is already there, the person will have to have faith in the answer. But isn't that the problem in the first place?

The person lacking in faith is the one who doubts or does not believe the Word of God. I find the "increase my faith" prayer somewhat humorous in that the Bible provides the answer for this "problem". Paul states in Romans 10:17 "...faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." The doubting person needs to get/read/hear the promise/assurances of God, take that Word and meditate/pray upon it and not let it go until they become "pregnant" with what it says. Once we take that Word out of our heads, put it on the inside and grasp the truth of it, we will then give birth - as it were - to that Word in our lives. That really is all faith is; taking God at His word and standing on that Word.

Therefore in as much as the person may feel tempted to pray for wisdom to use what is already there, the real issue is believing that what God says He will do is exactly what He will do. Paul again makes this clear in Hebrews 11:6 where he wrote: "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him". As we saw with Peter during that incident with the storm, faith is simply taking God at His Word and stepping out of the boat for no other reason other than because He says "Come".

What I find interesting is that if you were to ask a doubting believer about their salvation, s/he would tell you they are sure they are born again having accepted Jesus as Lord. However it seems to me that it takes far more faith to trust God with one's eternal destiny, than it does to trust Him with the everyday situation of one's life. Abraham simply believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Romans 4:3). I love what Peter said when Jesus told them to cast their nets: "Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net." (Luke 5:5). There really is no mystery to faith; it is simply taking God at His Word and standing on that Word until it comes through.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

Every human has an equal amount of faith which is enough to move mountains.
It is a matter of the what that faith has been trained to support.

The mere fact that you carry on youtr every day chores is an expression of faith.
It takes faith to flip a light switch,because you have to believe that the act of flipping the switch will result in illumination of the space.

The same goes when you turn the car switch,hail a cab,signal the bus at the stop and boot your computer.
Tthe question is,"Do you demonstrate the same faith you do in all these other activities,when you do you religious rituals?"

[musa]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

peace,
faith is not set amount. it goes up and down at all times.
it primarly depends on the enviroment.
the remembrace of Allah at all times, keeps our mind focused on Him and so does the company of the righteous
because Him alone is the source of everything we can thrust somebody but we can only put total thrust, faith and confidence in the Lord Most High.
when we sincerly surrender in Him we attain peace and tranquillity and fear nothing but His dispeasure. not an easy task, expecially living in babylon, but the one worth fdoing all we can for.
one love,

[Diplomat]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

Originally posted by Dr.Dudd:
[qb] Every human has an equal amount of faith which is enough to move mountains.
It is a matter of the what that faith has been trained to support.

The mere fact that you carry on youtr every day chores is an expression of faith.
It takes faith to flip a light switch,because you have to believe that the act of flipping the switch will result in illumination of the space.

The same goes when you turn the car switch,hail a cab,signal the bus at the stop and boot your computer.
Tthe question is,"Do you demonstrate the same faith you do in all these other activities,when you do you religious rituals?" [/qb]

While I can see where you are going - so to speak - I disagree somewhat. When I turn on a light switch, or turn the key in my ignition, there is no conscious decision involved on my part that these will work the way they should. We trust that the electrician or the car manufacturer have done their work properly and that these things work. After using them for a while, we know they work so we do not think about it anymore. We expect them to. On the other hand, faith in God is a conscious decision that we take (or not take) with each situation we encounter. If we trust Him, we act accordingly. If not, our actions demonstrate that as well.

[churchgirl]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

Excellent points made so far. What we must also keep in mind is that our faith in God is not for him to please us but for us to please him.

[bandido1]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

One's faith becomes weak when one tries to face life depending on his own understanding. If you TOTALLY trust and believe that God is able to handle any situation that arises in your life, then excersizing your faith becomes automatic.

That does not mean that we do not sometines question our faith. We are only human and in our finite mind we often doubt. But thankfully, God is omniscient and gracious, and is there to bring us back on track if we are humble enough to understand that we cannot do it all by ourselves!

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

CEW states:faith in God is a conscious decision that we take (or not take) with each situation we encounter.

Faith is never a concious action. Just as respiration is not,and while the act of utilizing that faith is consious. the act of faith is certainly not.
this is the reason why,you cant apply it at will to situations where it is not it has not been trained to function.
You said that you don not conciously apply faith when you flip the light switch,but the mere fact that you do not is evidence that you have applied faith to the action.
In other words,if you have to conciously apply faith to an action,it is evidence that faith in that action os lacking.
True faith is "taking for granted that an act will successfully attain the desired result.

Of you have not reached the point where it is taken for granted,ther is some dowbt,and doubt to faith is like barkness to light. They cant share the same space and time.

[accepted77]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

Originally posted by Dr.Dudd:
[qb]
Faith is never a concious action. Just as respiration is not,and while the act of utilizing that faith is consious. the act of faith is certainly not.
This is the reason why, you can apply it at will to situations where it has not been trained to function.
You said that you do not conciously apply faith when you flip the light switch, but the mere fact that you do not is evidence that you have applied faith to the action.
In other words,if you have to conciously applied faith to an action, it is evidence that faith in that action is lacking.
True faith is "taking for granted that an act will successfully attain the desired result.

If you have not reached the point where it is taken for granted, there is some doubt,and doubt to faith is like barkness to light. They can't share the same space and time. [/qb]

What you are talking about here is blind faith, the faith like Mountaingal says comes from reliability in the past.

I would that all christians had this level of blind faith in God, we do to a point as we believe however dark the morning there is a sun still shinning behind the clouds.

What CEW is talking about seems to me to be active faith. You hear a friend is sick and you make it your duty to prayer for that person fully aware that God is able to save by prayer but also knowing your battle is with the doubt that many have died from cancer.

If as you say faith was as unconcious as turning on a light switch then a brief petition to God to remember to heal your friend with cancer, now, and forget about it would be enough.

Not many of us have that level of faith, however. We prayer day and night, many times a day for that friend, knowing that the constant fervent prayer of the faithful availeth much.

When a spontaneous act of faith brings about an instant healing we see it so awesome, we label it a miracle.
Like the woman with the issue of blood that touched Jesus garment, she just grabed it and let go, healed instantly.
It was not the tug of the garment which alerted Jesus, he felt the faith connection, so urgent was this woman's belief so totally trusting of her act to bring about healing that it happened unconciously.
But this was an act she had pondered on, hearing of the miracles Jesus did, and it appears somewhat suprestitiously she had rightly ascribed to Jesus person, a healing fountain or an oracle so common in greek mythos.
So she just wanted to "touch and run" so to speak. To grab that healing and don't commit so much of a stir in the procession, as her ailment was no doubt embarrasing to her.

This is the childlike faith that moves God, it's a supreme conviction that he is able and we should take it for granted and just believe. Unfortunately our life experiences clouds that conviction, the many letdowns, lies and broken promises we encounter in ourselves and others during life, robs us of this childlike faith, like Peter Pan we "lose our happy thoughts as we grow older and become pirates", we forget how to "fly" above our problems and we struggle with belief.

Doctor, I will that faith be unconcious, but it is a relearning process with which I struggle daily because I have come to believe that faith comes from God it is not mine even the initial gift of faith drawing me to follow God is his. To grow in that faith I need daily to tap into its source by prayer and reading the word of God and ernestly seeking his will, and praise and worship to retrain my mind again to that childlike faith that pleases God, which one day I hope comes as easy as flicking a light switch.

[Diplomat]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

Originally posted by accepted:
[qb]...What CEW is talking about seems to me to be active faith. You hear a friend is sick and you make it your duty to prayer for that person fully aware that God is able to save by prayer but also knowing your battle is with the doubt that many have died from cancer.
[/qb]

That's it! From herein onwards I guess we do have to make the disctinction between active, passive, and blind faith.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: How Much Faith Is Enough?

I must admit I do not know what active or passive faith is,and I recognize blind faith to be as 'instinct'.

Where one act without reason,but expect their desired goal to be achieved.

I also recognize 'understanding faith' which is the understanding that an action usually result in the goal.

Unless a person has understanding faith,that person is more or less acting on a 'wish and a prayer'.

Since there are many levels of knowledge to be attained to get to that state in prayer.
It is uaually the 'wish' that accompanies the prayer than faith.
This is so because faith is not the only or even the most important principle involved in prayer.

Although with understanding faith the prayer is 99% complete,but 99% is not the same as a whole.

That 1% may seem negligable but it requires 99% of your effort to aquire it.

It is like piercing through the shell of a nut to get to it's seed.
the shell being so hard requires much more energy,but it is only a fraction of the whole.

As a result it discourages the majority of those who attempt,and decieves many that are still trying into believing that the whole is as difficult. While it is only the shell which is only 1% of the way is that hard.

What a day when the world find out that all major religions are one,not diffeent cultures relating to God in their own way,but actually an evolution of the one religion
/- Christianity
Bhudism -Yoga - Judaism - Islam