Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

[ohliz]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Do you know anyone that speaks Standard English? Does such a thing even exist without geographic variation?

I've only been to the UK once and what I heard didn't sound like standard English to me [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Boopie]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

NO! How in the world is it going to be disrespectful,this is jamaican.com I think this website was originated to help you all communicate with one another! It"s not easy moving from your birth place to a completly new surrounding and different cultures! Like I stated in a previous post this is truely your site we are just guests!

As a new commer too,at first I didn"t understand some things and I still don"t understand every word,but at least I'm trying! If I can get an idea of the story then that is just fine!

I did experience on thing though! MarieK made a statement about posting in the rent-a -dread something about Boops! I saw my name and thought she was talking about me! I was so sad about this and another friend from the board e-mailed me and I told her! She e-mailed me back after she read it and said "Oh my God!" This is too funny,she is not talking about you,that"s a jamaican term! We both laughed so hard when I realized this! I did try to say I was sorry to MarieK,but if she didn't get the message SORRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYY!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[tuffstuff]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

so wappen to di po ppl ooh cant chat prappa hinglish? well lek a tell oonu seh oonu always a guh tink seh mi nuh ha no brawtupsy caw mi cant chat like queen elizabett [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Tropiq]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Here is what Ms. Lou said in the JA paper today. What perfect timing. Did someone call her up?

'Know patois, but know English too'
published: Thursday | July 31, 2003

By Damion Mitchell, Staff Reporter

LIKE CHILDREN gathered around Miss Lou for 'Ring Ding' stories, members of the media heard her recite dialect and excerpts of stories yesterday during a rap session at the Jamaica Pegasus Hotel, New Kingston.

From the days of the tramcar and her first professional performance at the Ward Theatre in Kingston, to her first performance on the BBC's Caribbean Carnival in London, the Hon. Louise Bennett-Coverley (Miss Lou), 83, recalled some of the highlights. And between the stories were important messages and appeals.

Described as Jamaica's foremost cultural icon, Miss Lou said that while it was important to retain the Jamaican dialect as an integral part of the local culture, teachers must make it their responsibility to teach English translations.

Comedian, Oliver Samuels agreed.

She said that very often, children were chided for using the Jamaican dialect, however, they were not taught the English translation. "English is something that has to be taught in school, but unfortunately I don't think that some of the persons who are disseminating it really know the roots of the language," Samuels said.

Miss Lou said that while, for her, the performing arts were God-given talents, academic training was integral to her success. "I had formal training so that I could learn the right movements," she said, while noting that many performers today were not proficient.

Notwithstanding, she said, there was an abundance of talent in Jamaica.

She urged that the Jamaican dialect be "respected" as a significant aspect of Jamaican culture. "We talking this language every day and people not taking care of it," she said.

The international folklorist and writer, who reside in Toronto, Canada, said she still engaged in activities of a cultural nature. She makes special addresses to various audiences and also facilitates visits from cultural performers.

[Venn]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Liz, you do not know any one who speaks proper/standard English? Does every one you know speak ebonics and their version of broken english only? Do you interact with people in a professional environment? How is the English spoken/written in such a setting?

[chazproductions]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

So when you go to France, Germany, The Netherlands, etc. are they being disrespectful for speaking in their native language? I don't think so. You can't go to someone country and demand that they speak English you should at least try to learn a couple phrase here and there. And you can always ask someone to explain. It's that simple.


It's funny because people are always asking me to talk Patwah. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ohliz]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Originally posted by Venn:
[qb] Liz, you do not know any one who speaks proper/standard English? Does every one you know speak ebonics and their version of broken english only? Do you interact with people in a professional environment? How is the English spoken/written in such a setting? [/qb]

I may have been unclear. I can and do speak without excessive slang. But when I am relaxing with friends, we use a shorthand for things that are in our lives that is not easily understood if you aren't involved in jamband music and the on-tour life, for example.

But I'm not sure that there is such a thing as Standard English anyway, certainly not from the UK to the US. Try telling an American to open the boot of their car or watch out for the lorry or to put on their wellies or mackintosh and watch the incomprehension spread across ther face. I spent a week travelling with a few Scottish kids in Europe years ago and I swear I had to get one of them to translate for all the others to me, I could understand maybe 1 word out of 10 spoken.

From my observation, it seems that the English spoken in Jamaica is perhaps more similar to what's spoken in the UK than in the US, yet different still from the other two - no?

People in different areas of the US use completely different words for many things too, on top of having sometimes heavy regional accents.

So given that I am sometimes not understood in the US by English-speakers, is it crazy to assume that (some) Americans might not be understood by some Jamaicans?

[SeanPaulGyal]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Patois is English. We have had this discussion before

It is not disrespectful to speak Patois cuz it is very much a part of JA culture.

If you travel to JA you should want to know the dialect.

that is all it is, a dialect.

I think that is the most amazing thing bout JA is that most local people can switch between Queen's English and Patois very readily.

Unlike Ebonics where we find that NOT to be the case. Oftentime we hear people speak Ebonics but that is the extent of their spoken language. The dialect of their culture is spoken but they have NO proper accepted form of English.

It is an interesting debate and one that is constantly being debated.

I love to hear Patois and take no offense to anyone speaking or writing it. If I do not understand, like Tropicana, I just ask a board member or my husband.

[Reggaeluver]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Responding as an american who cannot speak patois [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] although my local JAkin friends teach me phrases a lot, sometimes I even surprise them with the knowledge you all have taught me, had one today he was telling me about a girl who was saying he got her pregnant, I said you mean she said she a breed for you? I think I caught him off guard ~lol~

when I 1st came to this board the dialect is what truly attracted me you you all [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] (besides you all being wonderfull people of course [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ). I was very slow to read it at first but now I can read and "translate" while I read. Sometimes some of you have a little stronger "accent" I guess you would call it and I may have to read a couple of times but I picked it up no problem. speak it as you wish, I love it. Just my 2 cents [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[born_jamaican]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Alright dis yah post soon lock dung but to put my lickle piece in why is it that Patwa our native language is a problem to everybody? And why is it that everybody wants to speak it? Why can't we just be who we are?

I don't think me speaking in my language is disrespectful to nobody if they take it disrespectful den ohhhhhhhhhhhhh well on them

[ohliz]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Patwa is not disrespectful, the original question was, is it hard for new people (non-Jamaican) to the board to understand and should members use it when responding to posts from new members?

I think the consensus was the tourist forums usually stick to English and patois is fine elsewhere.

Few foreigners can speak or read patois so they won't understand what is being said....and most tourists, unless they are regulars or longtimers or very interested, won't venture to other areas of the board and/or learn patois.

People in Jamaica should speak whatever they are comfortable with, in my opinion.

[dahjah]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

DWL @ ReggaeLuver [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Nunya]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Originally posted by ohliz:
[qb] Patwa is not disrespectful, the original question was, is it hard for new people (non-Jamaican) to the board to understand and should members use it when responding to posts from new members?[/qb]

No, the original question (as the foundation for this thread and paraphrased from its author, was and remains, "Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful?"

[qb]I think the consensus was the tourist forums usually stick to English and patois is fine elsewhere.[/qb]

The consensus of the tourist fora sticking to English and patois being fine elsewhere smacks of segregation. And seem somehow elitist to me. If a patois speaker choses to speak English to a newcommer, then it's fine. But that patois speaker should not feel obligated to do so.

[qb]Few foreigners can speak or read patois so they won't understand what is being said....and most tourists, unless they are regulars or longtimers or very interested, won't venture to other areas of the board and/or learn patois.[/qb]

As was said before, it aint difficult to ask for a translation. Maybe Xavier should put a note on the front page for newbies not to be skeerd of the patois and that translators are standing at the ready.

[qb]People in Jamaica should speak whatever they are comfortable with, in my opinion. [/qb]

And so should people from Jamaica who are no longer in Jamaica.

[kia027]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Originally posted by SeanPaulGyal:
[qb] I think that is the most amazing thing bout JA is that most local people can switch between Queen's English and Patois very readily.

Unlike Ebonics where we find that NOT to be the case. Oftentime we hear people speak Ebonics but that is the extent of their spoken language. The dialect of their culture is spoken but they have NO proper accepted form of English.
[/qb]

many a person who speaketh in ebonics speaketh american english splendidly. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Night Nurse]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

A wha a gwaaan in yassoh? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] A wha mi miss? A whe unno a chat say?

Mi cyaan hannastan a gawdalmighty ting...smaddy haffi go chransilate dis ya speekis spookie sinting fi mi. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

In di wurds of mi fren...Bite me!