Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

[j-kid]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Dis ah wan Jamaican Board, soh whe yuh expect fi deh pan yah? When yuh goh pan wan Chinese Board dem speak Chinese, Itilian board dem speak Itilian, German Board dem speak German,.........etc.

[ablackskyfoxx]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

No, not at all!

Think about it..

Who are we as visitors to this site (or to JA for that matter) and have issues about the way Jamaican individuals speak their natural way of speaking?

For goodness sake?? If we don't like it ... why visit? Or if we don't understand, ask?



I don't go to Peru, and get my pants all up in a tizzy because they don't understand my light weight ebonics when I say, " What's up DOGG? How you rollin' ? " [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[ohliz]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

The consensus of the tourist fora sticking to English and patois being fine elsewhere smacks of segregation. And seem somehow elitist to me. If a patois speaker choses to speak English to a newcommer, then it's fine. But that patois speaker should not feel obligated to do so.

Here's the problem - very few of you that are Jamaican and speak patois participate in the tourist boards. So it's been a non-issue since most people that post there CAN'T speak it.

I know Sienna has begged more Jamaican folks to come down there and help out the tourists but only a few do.

I could care less whether you speak patois or English, frankly, I was just clearing up the misunderstanding someone had that we were talking about is it disrespectful to speak patois to newcomers IN JAMAICA when we were talking about the BOARD.

Given that the touirist boards are mostly - surprise - toruists, I don't see the English to patois ratio changing anytime soon, unless some of you folks come down and start talking about your favorite waterfalls and hotels and whatnot.

[mountaingal]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

maybe I'm missing something here...isn't the original question about talking patwa to newcomers? Like, if somebody new to the board comes on and asks a question in English, we're going to insist on answering them in patwa, and we don't care if they understand it or not? Sounds very unhospitable to me...

[Nunya]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

yeah, you are missing something, but I am too tired to go it over...

[rebelgirl]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

NO

My 2 cents, and I don't really have anything else I can add to that statement I think no says it all.

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Originally posted by Fern:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] English should come first in the WW.If likkle more yuh si-seh dat patois will do just fine wid de person,den by all means speak it. [/qb]

What about other websites in the various languages of the world, you would ask them to change that for the sake of visitor who don't understand their language?

Like it's been said before, newcomers should state that they have difficulty reading patois. [/qb]

The official language of JA is Standard English,alodoah moas ah wi speak JA'n patois.

It would be a good idea fi newcomers to state dat dem doan undahstan patois.Maybe dem should put dat in de board rules dat way dem wi knoa b4hand. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Originally posted by evanovitch:
[qb] kip we dialect to we self yah...next ting dem a go tell wi how it really fi chat [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/qb]

yuh av ah pint.plus,it nuh too nice wen de wun dem try speak ei an dem mash ei up.howeva,if de newcomers stick aroun awn de board an aroun dem frenz,eventually dem ahguh figgah out sum/nuff ah de dialect.suh what den????should wi speak inglish pon de hoal board alla de time???

[mountaingal]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Originally posted by Nunya:
[qb] yeah, you are missing something, but I am too tired to go it over... [/qb]

I went over Milo Man's post again, and it seems to me in the context he made it that if newcomers want information about planning a vacation and we are able to provide answers to them in English so they can understand it, then we should do so. I agree, don't cost nothin...

It doesn't seem there's a judgement being made on patwa and patwa speakers in that comment. i don't see any suggestion that we NEVER speak patwa to a newcomer. this defensiveness over patwa use i find really strange... speaking English to someone who cannot understand patwa is no threat to the status of patwa.

[Green_Biscuit]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Well, I have a comment, and a question. first, when I was a newbie, I didn't even go to the tourist sections, etc. I went to WW, because that it what interested me. I wrote in standard (or whatever you want to call it) English, and the replies were in that, too, with little exception. I struggled with a few, and sent a few PM's for clarification. No big deal. It seems like common sense to me.

Now for my question, for the yaaddies. Do you think in patois or standard/Queens English, and has this always been the case?

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Originally posted by Green_Biscuit:
[qb] Do you think in patois or standard/Queens English, and has this always been the case? [/qb]

think????well,I think in english I guess,but sometimes patois. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] why???

[Night Nurse]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Mi alwayz wanda dis.

If you cyaa yu dawg go a France, does it undastan French. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Can puss an dawg be bilingual?

[rasthadan]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Very interesting all three pages. I am not Jamaican, but because of my lady maybe I've become Jamaican more than some Jamaicans, but let me talk to you about languages, and Patois is a language, it is thinking in a language and interraction with those that don't speak it is that of a another language. Here are some personal thoughts and personal experience onwhat has benn said so far on this thread. Not necessarily in any order and without quoting or criticising anyone.

1. English is a colonial language imposed on those conquered. Like Italian in Italy is an imposed language on a country that has at least five different languages. Italian is the official language of the Piedmontese conquereres even though they still speak Piedmontese a French Patois from Savoy, Garibald and the unity of Italy (Garibaldi spoke Genovese a separate language still doing well from where I came from)Italian was imposed and taught to everyone for political reasons, to make it one nation (?). If Jamaican Patois was not a separate language there would be no need for a Jamaican- English Dictionary or a Caribbean English Dictionary. The same reasoning applies to French patois (We are talking Caribbean). Why is it a language? Because you are of African origin and adopted English by force for necessity, but you continued thinkig African according to where you came from and used English to speak and express African thought. For how long didi you still use your African tongue as slaves until it was forbidden by the master? Where impossible to use English you modified African to the new vocabulary, but you certainly did not think in English, and today we still don't think in the accepted term of the meaning in English. So much for standard English. American is still rooted with English dialects of the 16th century. If English was standard Microsoft would find no need to identify for their Word programme Jamaican English or Caribbean English or for that matter so many different types of English. Is it just spellings structure or sound or is it just the local patois cleaned up to be as close as possible to standard English?. Everytime you in English repeat words like when you say Night Night or yeah yeah, good good, right right etc., you are speaking african, where repetition is emphasis. The lack of use of articles is african, conjunctions and simple verb use is african, where the message is emphasied by repetion, sound and simple key words in a complex communication system. So be proud of you patois or you proper Jamaican English.How many African words and phares have we given to Englis? Check it out!. There are as people said dialects in England and the USA that are beyond comprehension. If you don't understand ask. Don't make believe you understand, it can be lethal and insulting.

2. I speak several languages so I can have fun, but I can also be mean about it. When I was studying in Italy, they had us drawing the Colosseum next to the Colosseum. Tourist would come by and presume that you spoke their language (Americans and French were the worst in this). No effort to start as bad as they could have been to ask questions in you local language. When they were frustrated enough I would answer saying. You are visiting my country, how can you pretend that everyone speaks YOUR language, why not make a likkle effort to speak my language and if you cannot I will come to you in your language and help you. It's called respect. If I am in Jamaica I will speak what I am most comfortable with and switch if switching is necessary. Often though, as happens in Italy and other places the sound of your "standard English" will be coloured by pronunciation, structure and what you are saying will still raise eyebrows and will not necessarily be understood. Another way of thinking. (With my son often we used to find ourselves stuck on how to express a feeling or a happening and often we would concur that it could only be properly expressed with a word that belonged to another language, the limitations of translations) Ask and it shall be translated. I expect on a Jamaican site to read Patois, and it is easier to understand than the spoken variety parish by parish. St Kitts where I live is small, yet within a mile or two patois changes drastically in sound,vocabulary use, inflection and meaning of phrases.
3. In my house I speak first my language. After the greetings and introduction if my guest doesn't speak my tongue I will switch. I might even switch because it becomes courtesy towards his accepting my tounge. We will still have differences because a men's language reflects the way he thinks, otherwise we would not be recognised as Jamaican, French or various type of English speakers etc.
4. Actually in my older age I have been restudying my language of Genoa, and we have sites that are dedicated only to writing it speaking in it and keeping it alive. I want to know why I that grew up with that language think that way and not in another way, and why when I speak, someone knows where I was born. It's something to be proud of and that others should respect. These sites will not discriminate if you post in standar Italian or ask for transalation. It's always easier to read than to speak or to understand the sound. The Ministry of Tourism can write proper English for their promotions. No Problem, but let them say we have a different sound and a local speech born from our African roots. It was circumstances that forced that means of communication to adopt English, french and Spanish words. Just think about Papamiento.

Last, I truly believe that Patois should be taught in s [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] chool. It can really help us to understand our roots and how we think and are what we are. Of course unbiased history would help as well.

Thanks for you patience, I hope I made sense.

[halfwaytree]

Re: Is speaking patois to newcommers disrespectful

Quote by mountaingal:

I went over Milo Man's post again, and it seems to me in the context he made it that if newcomers want information about planning a vacation and we are able to provide answers to them in English so they can understand it, then we should do so. I agree, don't cost nothin...

It doesn't seem there's a judgement being made on patwa and patwa speakers in that comment. i don't see any suggestion that we NEVER speak patwa to a newcomer. this defensiveness over patwa use i find really strange... speaking English to someone who cannot understand patwa is no threat to the status of patwa.

That is exactly what I ment mountaingal. Nothing more or nothing less to read into it.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]