Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

**Dailybread** · 08-19-2003, 06:44 PM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by mountaingal:

a wah de...?!?!

oonu christians are a surprising lot...

How so? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/qb]

I think I see where she's coming from

That is a very interesting piece. Looks like it came from the book of Solomon (or playboy) - if you know what I'm saying.

**mountaingal** · 08-19-2003, 06:47 PM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by mountaingal:

a wah de...?!?!

oonu christians are a surprising lot...

How so? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/qb]

sorry CEW, your innocent act is not fooling me one bit... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

parts of that excerpt read like a "bodice-ripper"-type novel, lol!

**Diplomat** · 08-19-2003, 06:51 PM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

DB, MG: I did not see it that way at all [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] . I figured it could just as easily played itself out that way instead of the very condensed version the Bible gives. I do think it makes the characters - and especially Joseph - very human, and in some regards, reading it is like visualizing a Shakespearean play. I quite liked it [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

**mountaingal** · 08-19-2003, 06:56 PM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]

Though ancient biblical exegetes saw complicity in Joseph's relationship with Potiphar's wife, and saw Joseph's imprisonment as punishment for the sin of irresolutely rejecting adultery, it is possible to argue that Joseph's incarceration is punishment for the sin of rejecting mutual attraction and sexual intimacy in favour of loyalty to a slavemaster.

it is possible to make this argument, but it's a highly improbable argument, i'd say, as it would seem inconsistent with the bible's general suspicion of sexual gratification, and conversely, it's laissez-faire attitude towards slave master/slave relationships. [/qb]

I agree with your first point but am not following the conclusion regarding the Bible's "general suspicion of sexual gratification." Sure would appreciate your clarification. I do think however that Joseph's loyalty to his master seemed rather sincere given his argument that sleeping with Mrs. Potiphar would be a violation of his master's trust. [/qb]

okay, on the matter of sexual gratification let me say i'm not a biblical scholar, but from reading excerpts here and there in discussions in this forum, i'd say that sexual gratification, aka lust, is frowned upon by the upright JudeoChristian. Therefore, why would Joseph be punished for rejecting mutual attraction and sexual intimacy, esp. with another man's wife? I mean, I myself wouldn't necessarily have faulted him for "hitting it" (to be crass for a moment), but I thought it was a no-no for the devout, even in ancient biblical times.

and being loyal to your master - didn't i see some recent arguments on this board here that implied that this is condoned by the bible? so why would Joseph be penalized for choosing this instead of adultery?

(Remember that I'm commenting on the "possible" argument put forward in that excerpt, the one that suggested Joseph was being punished by God for rejecting sexual intimacy for loyalty to his master...)

**Dailybread** · 08-19-2003, 06:59 PM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] DB, MG: I did not see it that way at all [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] . I figured it could just as easily played itself out that way instead of the very condensed version the Bible gives. I do think it makes the characters - and especially Joseph - very human, and in some regards, reading it is like visualizing a Shakespearean play. [/qb]

CEW, I hear you and do agree that it shows his humanness in that it is not 'easy' for a man to turn down a very attractive and 'rich' woman in position of authority (did I say that)

**Guest** · 08-19-2003, 07:54 PM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] This is a bit long - it really amplifies this story and make the characters very human - but well worth the read.

For many days now, he had scruplously avoided her, yet he knew with certainty that she could not be put off forever. Potiphar, his master, was captain of Pharaoh's guard but his wife was the true strong member of that family. Her strength was subtle and hidden but when she wished to assert her will, very few were able to stand before her.

From the day that Joseph had been purchased in the market on the slave block, and brought to his master's house, he knew that this woman of the house would be a problem for him, yet he was at a loss as to how to handle the situation. His greatest fear had been that he would be purchased by one of the many men of Egypt who favored the masculine love of a good looking young boy (for Joseph was a very goodly young man to look upon), and when Potiphar bought him, he was relieved to know that Pharaoh's captain only had amorous interest in his own wife. Yet the wife of Potiphar had eyes, not for her husband, but for this foreign and exotic Hebrew slave.

So the inevitable day came when Jospeh found himself alone in the house with her, and he feared what would happen. He went out of his way to avoid her while attending to his chores, moving from one room to the next when he heard her approaching foot steps. Yet at long last, he found himself trapped in a chamber with only one exit, and SHE stood in the doorway, smiling at him, and breathing quite heavily.

"Is there something that my mistress wishes", he asked, avoiding her eyes and the intensity of her stare. She did not answer immediately but continued to watch him while her smile widened. After a moment she entered the room and drew near to him. As she came along side of him, she placed her right hand on his shoulder, and whispered huskily, "Yes Joseph, there is a favor that you may perform for me." Her touch felt warm and although he felt uncomfortable and frightened, he could not deny that her touch felt good on his shoulder. He took a step backward as he turned to face her. Yet she in turn stepped forward and held on to his shoulder. Joseph swallowed hard as their gazes locked for a silent few seconds. He was unable to avoid looking at her now and her feminine beauty was an inescapable fact that began to overpower him, against his will.

"What may I do for my mistress", he finally was able to say. Her hand moved along is shoulder to the base of his throat and she moved it slightly down his chest and up again to his neck. Joseph began to perspire and tremble at her touch. Again he tried backing away but her fingers closed on his tunic and he was unable to move. "Jospeh" she whispered. "I wish you to give me a massage. My muscles are aching and I believe that you have the perfect touch to relax me." His eyes widened as he felt the growing warmth below his waist. He began to speak but could only stammer some incomprehensible syllables. "I understand", she said, as her hand moved up to his face. "You are somewhat taken aback by my request. But be assured, there is no harm, and I believe that we can be of help to each other.

Her hand was hot on his face and he wished that she would not notice that he was becoming excited agianst his will, but of course she did notice it. "Mistress", he blurted out, "this is not seemly. It is immodest for us to be alone together like this." "Nonsense", she replied, "It is not uncommon for slaves to be alone with their masters or mistresses while they perform their daily work. Come with me." So saying, she took him by the hand and led him out of that room and down a corridor to her own sleep chamber. Once inside, she closed and locked the door, as well as the window that lead out to the garden. She looked out the window briefly to assure herself that no one was in view, and once satisfied that they would not be disturbed by the sudden appearence of another staff or family member, she removed the outer robe that she was wearing, slipping it off her shoulders and letting it fall to the floor. Then she drew the curtains across the window, enveloping the room in a seductive dimness. Arching her neck and placing her hand behind her back, she stretched, revealing an incredible voluptuousness that sent shivers thorugh Joseph's young vibrant body. She now wore only a transparent bodice and a gossamer bottom that reached from her waist to well above her knees. She looked at him and smiled again, knowing that her teasing was having the desired effect as his changing anatomy was no longer able to conceal. She sat on the bed and unloosed her long red hair. "Am I not a goodly woman even having given birth to children", she asked. But Joseph was not listening. His mind was racing and he thought, "Because I slandered my brothers to my father, saying that they had cast their eyes on the wives of other men, so now is G-d punishing me measure for measure."

She lay back upon her bed and held her arms out to him. He knew that he must not approach her; that he must flee. But how? He was the slave and she the mistress of the house. He stood there, imobile, rooted to the spot. "Joseph - come now!", she said in a commanding voice, her arms still outstretched. Joseph found himself absolutely unable to move. She smiled up at him and unloosed the bodice, and as she sat up, she allowed it to slip off her shoulders. Joseph stood transfixed, his body reaching a tuminescent peak of desire. She stood up and pulled down the garment that covered her private parts. She was now completely naked.

Suddenly she reached out and threw her arms around him, kissing his face with quick passionate kisses. "I WILL have you now", she
whispered throatily and hotly in his ear. So saying, she fell back upon the bed pulling him down on top of her. Joseph felt himself sweating. Finally his tongue found its freedom. "Mistress", he begged, "please do not do this. Let me go. This is an offense against G-d and my master." He struggled but she held him fast, throwing her legs around his body, trapping him. His struggles weakened. The feel of her skin against his. The aroma of her body was over-powering him. He continued to beg but less convincingly now. He saw the perfect beauty of her nipples and the golden brown aureloe surrounding them and he had a sudden desire to bury his face in her breasts. Yet he continued to resist. He saw that everything about her body was desirable; so desirable that a man could drown in her, willingly. Yet he still resisted. But with every passing second, his will to resist grew weaker. He was now breathing very heavily as was she. His mouth felt dry, and his throat, and he began to wish to slake the thirst and desire with the taste of her flesh, her very perspiration!

As she felt his resistance wane and saw the look in his eyes that told her he was about to surrender, she held him more tightly and said, "Joseph, do not resist. This is the will of heaven. Are you not a man whom heaven favors with dreams and interpretations?" She carressed his head and ran her fingers through his beautiful dark hair, and she kissed his closed eyes. She continued to speak as his hand slid over her skin and he clasped her shoulder in his fingers. "Last night I dreamed that a great nation would come from us. From out of out of the joining of our loins will be born great kings and prophets. This is heaven's plan, not mere desire." Joseph removed his hand from her shoulder and touched her arm that encircled him but he remained silent, unbelieving what he was hearing. Finally he spoke. "Can G-d truly accomplish so great a thing, born out of the fruits of sin?", he asked. She smiled. "This is His will. Surrender!" He thought to himself, "Perhaps then, I may do this if it is heaven's will." Then he asked himself if it were true that a great people would be born of the seed of both of them, he and his master's wife. And in a twinkling he knew that it was indeed so.
Prophetically he saw that his blood was destined to join with hers in the future of his people. He decided to stop resisting and give in to her; to give her what she had wanted all the time that he had been in her house.

At that very moment the image of his father Jacob appeared before him. Joseph's attention was drawn away from her to the figure before him, the father that he had not seen for so many years. The image spoke. "Joseph, Joseph, what you are doing is grave sin. The names of my sons shall be worn on the breastplate of the High Priest as he serves the Holy One in the Temple. For a moment's pleasre, do you wish your name to be erased from the breastplate? Moreover, if you commit this sin, you will destroy the entire world for this sin shall bring a plague upon the world and none shall escape, neither the good nor the bad."

Joseph trembled as he heard these words. He heard her speak to him from some distant place. "Joseph, where are you? Where is your mind? I am here!" He looked at her and back to his father, and again at her, and he tore himself loose from her embrace as he screamed, "NO! I must not! It is sin against G-d!" Before she was able to react he leapt up off the bed and ran from the room. She had tried to reach out to pull him back but all she succeeded in doing was to grab his shirt and as he fled, the shirt was pulled off hiim and remained in her grasp.

Years later, after Joseph had saved Egypt from starvation during the long time of famine, Pharaoh elevated him to the rank of prime minister of Egypt.

Source: Joseph & Potiphar's Wife [/qb]

My, my someone certainly let their imagination run with this story. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

1. We would agree there are examples of Mrs. Potiphar all over, but are they also in the Church?

Yup!

2. Does this story make the case for brothers to be diligent and avoid being alone in certain places with members of the opposite sex?

Double yup!

3. Are the actions of Mrs. Potiphar like that of the neglected wife?

Huh! Nope more like Jezzy and some neglected husbands that I know of.

4. Does the favor of God upon a person's life attract spirits that would seek to destroy that life's purpose?

Perhaps and then again God also allows the enemy to test us to see what we are made of.

**Guest** · 08-19-2003, 08:15 PM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Though ancient biblical exegetes saw complicity in Joseph's relationship with Potiphar's wife, and saw Joseph's imprisonment as punishment for the sin of irresolutely rejecting adultery, it is possible to argue that Joseph's incarceration is punishment for the sin of rejecting mutual attraction and sexual intimacy in favour of loyalty to a slavemaster."

At the time of Joseph the Ten Commandments had not yet been been given by God, but judging from what had happened when Abraham lied about Sarai being his wife :

Genesis 20

Abraham and Abimelech

1 Now Abraham moved on from there into the region of the Negev and lived between Kadesh and Shur. For a while he stayed in Gerar, 2 and there Abraham said of his wife Sarah, "She is my sister." Then Abimelech king of Gerar sent for Sarah and took her.
3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream one night and said to him, "You are as good as dead because of the woman you have taken; she is a married woman."

I would say it is highly improbable that the above speculation could hold an ounce of water. But just for the sake of argument, I wonder how Potiphar would have responded IF the reverse had happened and he just happened to have returned from his trip a tad early. Would he then have had a right to take Joseph's life?

**Diplomat** · 08-19-2003, 08:47 PM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Though ancient biblical exegetes saw complicity in Joseph's relationship with Potiphar's wife, and saw Joseph's imprisonment as punishment for the sin of irresolutely rejecting adultery, it is possible to argue that Joseph's incarceration is punishment for the sin of rejecting mutual attraction and sexual intimacy in favour of loyalty to a slavemaster.

Source: And Joseph...

Just to clarify my own thoughts on the above quote. I do not know how the text is/was transmitted in traditional Judaism so I cannot agree/disagree with the author. As a part of this 'series', from time to time I have taken various opinions from various sources and included them to add different perspectives. Of course, one can agree/disagree as one sees fit, but I feel the need to clarify that these additions - in any part of the 'series' - do not necessarily reflect my personal points of view.

**Guest** · 08-20-2003, 11:52 PM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

What really happened between Joseph and Mrs. Potiphar.

I remember the day as if it was yesterday. Joseph an immigrant from Jamaica had just arrived. He had that beautiful island glow, nice bright white teeth and his muscles were bulging from lifting bunches of banana and climbing tall coconut trees. Joseph was not afraid to show off his muscular legs and from time to time you would see him flexing for the ladies.

Mrs. P. was always checking out the fine specimen of a man from her bedroom window and she was always wondering what it would be like to experience the man from the Island. Her desires for him totally consumed her being. In her mind, she plotted many ways to meet Joseph. She finally decided to use her power and told Gino, the pool boy, to invite Joseph over for a swim. Joseph accepted albeit not the ocean that he was so accustomed to.

Joseph arrived smiling at the idea of going for swim. “Wappen Star, give tanks, give tank”, he said to Gino. “Joseph, wadup”, Gino replied. “Yow, the old lady wants to see you. Go check her out and see what’s up…know wad I mean”, Gino laughed.

Joseph had noticed Mrs. P. several times but was conscious of the fact that she was his boss’s wife. He secretly wondered what it would be like to be with her but he also knew that God had a special calling on his life. He didn’t want mess with his calling but deep down inside he desired Mrs. P as much as she desired him.

This was a particularly warm day but being from the beautiful Island of Jamaica he didn’t mind the heat. He arrived in Mrs. P., room only to find her lying on her heart-shaped bed in a see through negligee only. “Joseph, it’s good to see you”, she said seductively. “Why don’t you come over here next to me and cool me down with this fan. I’m soooooo hot.” Joseph flashed his gorgeous drop-dead smile and for a moment forgot about Mr. P and his purpose. He strolled over to Mrs. P and started fanning her. She reached out and touched his strong legs then she gently pulled him down to the bed beside her.

“A wah yuh a gwan wid Mrs. P.”, Joseph said. “Mi like yuh bad enno, but mi caan duh dis man.” “Come on Jo-jo, I won’t tell anyone if you won’t”, she whispered. She proceeded to take his cloak off and they began to passionately kiss each other. Shortly after, Joseph became conscious of what he was doing and started to feel a rush of guilt and betrayal.

“Stap it, mi can’t duh dis”, he shouted. “Dis is wrang. Mi can’t betray mi boss dem way yah man and mi can’t disobey mi God.” Mrs. P., pleaded with him to forget about everything but Joseph’s conscience outweighed his desire for her. He reached down to pick up his cloak and she grabbed hold of it. “No, I don’t want you to go. Stay with me Joseph. Stay”, she cried.

Joseph tried reasoning with her but she was not about to listen to his rationalization. She became angry and Joseph had no choice but to leave.

The rest of the story you all know and that’s what really happened. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

**Diplomat** · 08-21-2003, 12:21 AM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Compry, my friend! The sun was very hot in Brampton today, right? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

**Guest** · 08-21-2003, 12:43 AM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] Compry, my friend! The sun was very hot in Brampton today, right? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [/qb]

Yes and my house is hot too. I'm trying my darnest to cut back on electricity but the a/c will be going on very soon. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Why do you ask?

**Dailybread** · 08-21-2003, 02:10 AM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Compry you are too funny! I need a good laugh before I go to bed

**Diplomat** · 08-21-2003, 06:52 AM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] Compry, my friend! The sun was very hot in Brampton today, right? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [/qb]

Yes and my house is hot too. I'm trying my darnest to cut back on electricity but the a/c will be going on very soon. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Why do you ask? [/qb]

After reading that piece, I am left to conclude you were suffering from heat stroke [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

**mountaingal** · 08-21-2003, 09:30 AM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Compry, you miss you calling, lol! That was well-done. Me like fe you version betta dan de one CEW excerpted...

**Diplomat** · 08-21-2003, 10:15 AM

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

Originally posted by mountaingal:
Compry, you miss you calling, lol! That was well-done. Me like fe you version betta dan de one CEW excerpted...

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Potiphar's Wife

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