When are kids "ready" for sex ?

[britisha]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb] Once again, Servant makes his agenda clear. He wants to regulate other people's lives because they can't be trusted to behave in the ways that he wants them to.

Last time, it was parents who weren't competent to advise their children about sex. Now it's Planned Parenthood, which, by saying that sex is part of a relationship, that relationships should be based on mutuality and respect, is responsible for black girls in DC lacking 'self-esteem'.

Of course, the middle part that's excluded is how many of these girls decided to have sex after reading the Planned Parenthood web-site. Servant is trying to suggest a connection between the two, though, as far as I can see, there isn't any.

The reality is that Servant wants to control other people's lives, not out of concern for them, but from a fascistic desire to dominate. That's all. [/qb]

Fledge, that's the longest thesis mi si you post since mi deh here. Mi can dead now, I've seen it all. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb] I think they are both interesting.

But, self-esteem isn't something that you lose when you have sex as a teenager. Self-esteem is something that you get, and you get it when you are an infant and a toddler, and it is pretty much all jelled up and firmly in place by ten or eleven... in my opinion. It comes about through good parenting, and nasty stuff on TV, and rude girls in high school, nor bad dates and love affairs in high school can destroy it.

_ [/qb]

Forty-legz did your daughter share those feelings with you when she was a teenager? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:

I think they are both interesting.

But, self-esteem isn't something that you lose when you have sex as a teenager. Self-esteem is something that you get, and you get it when you are an infant and a toddler, and it is pretty much all jelled up and firmly in place by ten or eleven... in my opinion. It comes about through good parenting, and nasty stuff on TV, and rude girls in high school, nor bad dates and love affairs in high school can destroy it.

Originally posted by Jedil:

Forty-legz did your daughter share those feelings with you when she was a teenager? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

What feelings?

_

[servant]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb] Once again, Servant makes his agenda clear. He wants to regulate other people's lives because they can't be trusted to behave in the ways that he wants them to.

Last time, it was parents who weren't competent to advise their children about sex. Now it's Planned Parenthood, which, by saying that sex is part of a relationship, that relationships should be based on mutuality and respect, is responsible for black girls in DC lacking 'self-esteem'.

Of course, the middle part that's excluded is how many of these girls decided to have sex after reading the Planned Parenthood web-site. Servant is trying to suggest a connection between the two, though, as far as I can see, there isn't any.

The reality is that Servant wants to control other people's lives, not out of concern for them, but from a fascistic desire to dominate. That's all. [/qb]

And all along I thought my agenda was to post topics in the Faith and Reason forum that might stimulate some discussion of an important issue !

In any event, here’s what’s excluded Fledgist: Given that 40% of teen pregnancies end in an abortion (Source) and that PPA is the largest provider of abortion services in the US, to say that this organization has a conflict of interest when it gives advice to teenagers on when to have sex would be an understatement. And furthermore, for this organization to advise anyone, least of all teenagers, that they “may be ready to have sex” because they “have fun” together and both “want to have sex at this time” is simply outrageous.

[ohliz]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

PP works to PREVENT teen pregnancy, not encourage it. Please. They are not a corporation, they're a non-profit organization, they don't make money and if they ever showed a profit they wouldn't be able to keep it.

40% of teen pregnancies end in an abortion (Source)

I read your source and that's not what it says. It says 36% in 1986 - and the teen pregnancy rate has been dropping steadily since the 80's...and I give much of the credit for that to non-profit organizations such as Planned Parenthood.

I'd like to know what it was in, say, 2000.

From your source:

U.S. teenagers have one of the highest pregnancy rates in the western world-twice as high as rates found in England, France, and Canada, three times as high as that in Sweden; and seven times as high as the Dutch rate.

....now think on this. The countires listed above with low teen pregnancy rates...are they countries where abstinence only is taught? No, they all have comprehensive, early sex education....and this is leading more teens to choose to NOT have sex.

For example in the Netherlands, cited as having the lowest teen pregnancy rate by your source, "sexuality education begins in preschool and is integrated into all levels and subjects of schooling, boasts the lowest teen birth rate in the world — 6.9 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 — a rate almost eight times lower than that of the U. S. Likewise, the Dutch teenage abortion rate is more than three times lower than that of the U.S., and its overall AIDS case rate is more than eight times lower. "

Another example in your source, France: "France has a nationally mandated sexuality education program that begins when students are 13. Parents are prohibited from withdrawing their teenagers from the program. France's teenage birth rate is approximately six times lower than that of the U.S., its teenage abortion rate is more than two times lower, and its overall AIDS rate is more than three times lower. (Berne & Huberman, 1999)"

[Ephratahe]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb] I'm glad you asked that question, although I am no authority.

The cycle is hard to break. My reading leads me to believe that educating girls, women, leads to societal change pretty quickly.

All over the world, middle class values, a safe home, decent respectful work, decent schools and medical care, a clear vision of a good future for your children, are deeply longed for.

_ [/qb]

I do agree with your latter point re: the values that society seeks. With reference to your former point on educating females, do you believe that females are the only ones in need of educating? Are they solely responsible for creating changes within society?

I agree that self-respect has deep roots in good parenting. But effective parenting usually requires the presence of both parents, and one cannot ignore the influences of the male counterpart. Hence, shouldn't both parties be likewise educated?

[servant]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

"They are not a corporation, they're a non-profit organization, they don't make money and if they ever showed a profit they wouldn't be able to keep it."

http://www.conservativenews.org/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200312%5CNAT20031212a.html

"read your source and that's not what it says."

Look under subject heading "Teenage Abortion".

The very first line says: "Four in 10 teenage pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion."

[mangoskin]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

I also agree that self respect and self esteem is fostered by good parents..if kids are lucky enough to have good parents.

What also may contribute to low esteem and a bad self image are those rap videos and also the racism in society where blacks are still not really considered equal to whites.

The blonde beauty is worshipped in the USA, very few black woomen are.

[Fledgist]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb] Once again, Servant makes his agenda clear. He wants to regulate other people's lives because they can't be trusted to behave in the ways that he wants them to.

Last time, it was parents who weren't competent to advise their children about sex. Now it's Planned Parenthood, which, by saying that sex is part of a relationship, that relationships should be based on mutuality and respect, is responsible for black girls in DC lacking 'self-esteem'.

Of course, the middle part that's excluded is how many of these girls decided to have sex after reading the Planned Parenthood web-site. Servant is trying to suggest a connection between the two, though, as far as I can see, there isn't any.

The reality is that Servant wants to control other people's lives, not out of concern for them, but from a fascistic desire to dominate. That's all. [/qb]

And all along I thought my agenda was to post topics in the Faith and Reason forum that might stimulate some discussion of an important issue !

In any event, here’s what’s excluded Fledgist: Given that 40% of teen pregnancies end in an abortion (Source) and that PPA is the largest provider of abortion services in the US, to say that this organization has a conflict of interest when it gives advice to teenagers on when to have sex would be an understatement. And furthermore, for this organization to advise anyone, least of all teenagers, that they “may be ready to have sex” because they “have fun” together and both “want to have sex at this time” is simply outrageous. [/qb]

I'd be outraged too, if I made up straw men to be outraged at. However, the passage you cited at the start of the thread is a little different:
• Do you treat each other as equals?
• Do you trust each other?
• Are you honest with each other?
• Do you respect each other's needs and feelings?
• Do you care about each other's pleasure?
• Do you share similar interests and values?
• Do you have fun together?
• Are you ready to protect each other?
• Do you both accept responsibility for what you do?
• Do you both want to have sex at this time?

If these things are true about your relationship, you may be ready to have sex.

To take a couple of phrases, out of context, and then claim that they're all that matter is dishonest. And your objective, being the domination of those who will not obey your whim, is nothing but fascistic.

[servant]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Well did or did not PP say that "having fun" and "both wanting to have sex at the same time" should be part of the decision making process for teens ?

And where did I "claim that they're all that matter" ?

The point Fledgist, is that to tell kids that having fun together and both wanting to have sex should be ANY part of how you decide who to have sex with is irresponsible.

[rebelgirl]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by ohliz:
[qb] PP works to PREVENT teen pregnancy, not encourage it. Please. They are not a corporation, they're a non-profit organization, they don't make money and if they ever showed a profit they wouldn't be able to keep it.

40% of teen pregnancies end in an abortion (Source)

I read your source and that's not what it says. It says 36% in 1986 - and the teen pregnancy rate has been dropping steadily since the 80's...and I give much of the credit for that to non-profit organizations such as Planned Parenthood.

I'd like to know what it was in, say, 2000.

From your source:

U.S. teenagers have one of the highest pregnancy rates in the western world-twice as high as rates found in England, France, and Canada, three times as high as that in Sweden; and seven times as high as the Dutch rate.

....now think on this. The countires listed above with low teen pregnancy rates...are they countries where abstinence only is taught? No, they all have comprehensive, early sex education....and this is leading more teens to choose to NOT have sex.

For example in the Netherlands, cited as having the lowest teen pregnancy rate by your source, "sexuality education begins in preschool and is integrated into all levels and subjects of schooling, boasts the lowest teen birth rate in the world — 6.9 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 — a rate almost eight times lower than that of the U. S. Likewise, the Dutch teenage abortion rate is more than three times lower than that of the U.S., and its overall AIDS case rate is more than eight times lower. "

Another example in your source, France: "France has a nationally mandated sexuality education program that begins when students are 13. Parents are prohibited from withdrawing their teenagers from the program. France's teenage birth rate is approximately six times lower than that of the U.S., its teenage abortion rate is more than two times lower, and its overall AIDS rate is more than three times lower. (Berne & Huberman, 1999)" [/qb]

Canada too. Sex ed starts in grade 6 and carries through high school. Repression of information has never lead to bettering any situation.

Teen pregnancy has allot to do with economic wealth and education provided. having witnessed this first hand riding the rails between the middle class and the poor in my teens my girlfriends from middle class homes did not have children till they were married (or in their late 20's) all completed high school. those who were living in poverty, well all of them were pregnant before they reached 20 and only 2 completed high school. (most came from parents who had children in their teens as well.)

[Ephratahe]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by rebel:
[qb] Teen pregnancy has allot to do with economic wealth and education provided. having witnessed this first hand riding the rails between the middle class and the poor in my teens my girlfriends from middle class homes did not have children till they were married (or in their late 20's) all completed high school. those who were living in poverty, well all of them were pregnant before they reached 20 and only 2 completed high school. (most came from parents who had children in their teens as well.) [/qb]

Rebel,
This seems like an all-encompassing statement. Poverty does not always lead to pregnancy (if this were true, then by my calculation every female within my family and all my female friends would have been pregnant before the age of 20), neither does originating from a middle-class background guarantee that one will not become pregnant in their teens. It is possible to be poor, yet esteem self-value and self-worth. I think the overall message is that engaging in sex at a young age without understanding the full ramifications of what one is doing can prove detrimental to a female's psyche.

[Guest]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:

I think they are both interesting.

But, self-esteem isn't something that you lose when you have sex as a teenager. Self-esteem is something that you get, and you get it when you are an infant and a toddler, and it is pretty much all jelled up and firmly in place by ten or eleven... in my opinion. It comes about through good parenting, and nasty stuff on TV, and rude girls in high school, nor bad dates and love affairs in high school can destroy it.

Originally posted by Jedil:

Forty-legz did your daughter share those feelings with you when she was a teenager? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

What feelings?

_ [/qb]

What you have asserted above? Or else how do you know what teenagers feel before or after indulging in sex. Perhaps you can say for some but not all, and unless your teenage daughter confided in you, or you did a study of your own you cannot say with certainty at all. There are a lot of factors governing the matter of teenage sex, and in the majority of cases low self esteem plays a major role in why many girls indulge themselves. For the boys it is the conquest, for the girl more often times it is the matter of being loved and accepted, but afterwards they are sadly disappointed. Notice also I did not say in all cases but in the majority of cases.

[LadyDayshah]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb] Once again, Servant makes his agenda clear. He wants to regulate other people's lives because they can't be trusted to behave in the ways that he wants them to.

Last time, it was parents who weren't competent to advise their children about sex. Now it's Planned Parenthood, which, by saying that sex is part of a relationship, that relationships should be based on mutuality and respect, is responsible for black girls in DC lacking 'self-esteem'.

Of course, the middle part that's excluded is how many of these girls decided to have sex after reading the Planned Parenthood web-site. Servant is trying to suggest a connection between the two, though, as far as I can see, there isn't any.

The reality is that Servant wants to control other people's lives, not out of concern for them, but from a fascistic desire to dominate. That's all. [/qb]

this can't be a well-thought out reply.

[rebelgirl]

Re: When are kids "ready" for sex ?

Originally posted by ephra:
[qb] Rebel,
This seems like an all-encompassing statement. Poverty does not always lead to pregnancy (if this were true, then by my calculation every female within my family and all my female friends would have been pregnant before the age of 20), neither does originating from a middle-class background guarantee that one will not become pregnant in their teens. It is possible to be poor, yet esteem self-value and self-worth. I think the overall message is that engaging in sex at a young age without understanding the full ramifications of what one is doing can prove detrimental to a female's psyche. [/qb]

I did not say poverty "always" leads to teen pregnancy, nor that middle class teens do not become pregnant. I will however stand by the fact that (and this is backed by statistics) that economic wealth and education play a large role in who is more likely to become a teen mother or engage in premarital sex. economic wealth also has a roll in parenting to a degree (again speaking from personal experience) being a single mother with a very meager income I know myself i am not able to provide the support and level of parenting that a well off middle class mother can provide her child, I spend more time working than i do with my child, and what time I am able to spend with my child is dominated by taking care of the essentials in life cleaning cooking washing clothes etc. I have no doubt this will impact her self esteem to a degree, it certainly did mine. I rarely saw my parents through my early teens and there wasn't allot of time for them to spend making sure that I felt good about myself, of discussing the issues.

check the stats I think you will find that poverty directly correlates with the numbers of teens engaging in sex and teen pregnancy. Self esteem is built by family and the environment around you as a child, education provides you with the basis to make informed and positive decisions. If the time and influence of your family is limited by economics and your education is substandard (due to the same reason) you are less likely to have a solid foundation on which your self esteem is built.