The Jesus question(s)

**Rozhyper** · 02-21-2004, 11:06 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

7. If you had no Bible and all the subsequent books written to prove Jesus or disprove him were never written, could you honestly read historical writings from the era in which Jesus lived and come to a conclusion he existed in a way the Gospels said he did?

8. Can you even begin to be objective on this matter at all?

Well this is not the case... it was and is written... Maktub!

__________________

**Rozhyper** · 02-21-2004, 11:12 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

I think the way Christianity is taught to Children is very patronising and needs to be reconsidered. These children grow up thinking they were told stories... as opposed to history...

Furthermore, they feel that Christianity is no longer for them; because they can see that God is not going to beat them senseless if they do something wrong...

What I'm saying is... Many atheists feel as if they have outgrown Christianity or the belief in a god all together....

**Rozhyper** · 02-21-2004, 11:13 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

My emphasis is on OUTGROWN...

**servant** · 02-23-2004, 10:32 AM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

Well Mutty, much of what you say is true.....up to a certain point in history at any rate. What your reasoning does not account for is the success of the story of the Gospel since the evolution of literacy and access to contrary opinions, events that have changed much of the dynamic you described.

**Mutty** · 02-23-2004, 11:04 AM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

Originally posted by servant:
[qb] Well Mutty, much of what you say is true.....up to a certain point in history at any rate. What your reasoning does not account for is the success of the story of the Gospel since the evolution of literacy and access to contrary opinions, events that have changed much of the dynamic you described. [/qb]

Servant I see you are a Monday through Friday type of guy. LOL!!! Sorry to have gotten back to you so late. Now I'm off to work.

**Fledgist** · 02-23-2004, 01:51 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

Originally posted by servant:
[qb] Well Mutty, much of what you say is true.....up to a certain point in history at any rate. What your reasoning does not account for is the success of the story of the Gospel since the evolution of literacy and access to contrary opinions, events that have changed much of the dynamic you described. [/qb]

Snake oil sells.

**servant** · 02-23-2004, 03:05 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

Hence social "science".

**Fledgist** · 02-23-2004, 04:02 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

Originally posted by servant:
[qb] Hence social "science". [/qb]

I can't assert that something's so on my mere word, I have to provide evidence that will stand up to examination.

If, however, you are claiming that my published work is not scientific, or is inaccurate, be so kind as to say so, with supporting evidence.

I doubt very much that you will do so, however. People like you are always big in the mouth, and small in the action.

**servant** · 02-23-2004, 04:11 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

"If, however, you are claiming that my published work is not scientific, or is inaccurate, be so kind as to say so, with supporting evidence."

Try a repitition of the obvious.

Such as your musings on the emergence of post-colonial societies in the Caribbean for example. Accurate though your historical data may be, it (your musings), hardly qualifies as "science".

**Fledgist** · 02-23-2004, 04:16 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

Originally posted by servant:
[qb] "If, however, you are claiming that my published work is not scientific, or is inaccurate, be so kind as to say so, with supporting evidence."

Try a repitition of the obvious.

Such as your musings on the emergence of post-colonial societies in the Caribbean for example. [/qb]

In what way does my work on the roots of post-colonial democracy (not 'the emergence of post-colonial society') repeat the obvious? Once again, we have assertion without evidence. But that's to be expected.

Of course, basing large claims on a very brief blurb must be the Christian way.

Let me add that idiotic statements, by people who do not know what they are talking about; who wouldn't know research if it punched them in the nose; and who have not had the courage to place their work in front of their colleagues and the world, have rather less value than nothing.

**servant** · 02-23-2004, 05:24 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

Fledgist, I am merely pulling your chain. I have neither the expertise nor inclination to engage you in any such discussion. The temptation was greater than I could resist after your "snake oil" comment.

My apologies.

**chazproductions** · 02-23-2004, 06:26 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

Okay when you interject your opinion make sure that you have your facts straight - word of advice- do not accuse a person of saying what they didn't or assuming they meant something unless they said so. Now as to the man . The man has a voice and for all the time that I have interacted with the man on this website I am confident of one thing the man can speak for himself. That is as much as I have to say to you on this subject.

Listen Jedi I, I really don't have time for crap...I personally know the man you are referring to and I would never speak for him...That is something you are assuming and you did call him a failure on various occasions so I am neither putting words in your mouth or implying anything...Since I am not able for you to trace me off I'll just say re-read your post and you'll see were I got what I said from and by the way I am not the only one that go that. So whether you meant to call him that or not that's what some people including myself got from reading your post...Now this ends my argument...

**Fledgist** · 02-23-2004, 09:57 PM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

Originally posted by servant:
[qb] Fledgist, I am merely pulling your chain. I have neither the expertise nor inclination to engage you in any such discussion. The temptation was greater than I could resist after your "snake oil" comment.

My apologies. [/qb]

Fill your pockets with stones. Find a deep lake. Jump in it.

**britisha** · 02-24-2004, 02:11 AM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

7. If you had no Bible and all the subsequent books written to prove Jesus or disprove him were never written, could you honestly read historical writings from the era in which Jesus lived and come to a conclusion he existed in a way the Gospels said he did?

.....and herein lies the confusion.

Do any such historical writings exist?

If they do, do they give a different account?

If not, why not?

Hope you see the dillemma posed here.

If such "historical writings" [as you put it] existed, mentioned Him He this would mean that he did exist and if "He existed in a way [that] the Gospels said He did" then it only stands to reason that we, those of us who believe, WOULD. You seee history is history, it would have to give factual accounts. No?

While I understand where you might be comng from; ie it is good to think and wrestle over certain beliefs, it still stands that not having "proof" in historical writings that might or might not have been, doesn't detract from the POSSIBILITY that he {a} could have existed and {b} in the light that the Gospels presented.

Unfortunately a post that I've made here years ago dealt with a PBS programme where the Ethiopians claimed that they had historical proof [word of mouth..griot...pssed down through the ages etc] of Jesus' existence AND The documentary from what I remember showed where Jesus "hid" during the period that the Holy Scriptures made no mention of Him....ie from the time he was a boy of twelve years [old] to the mention of Him and his works in the Gospel. They even pointed out places where he stayed or passed through...and for the critics who will say that this is NO proof because it might not be in writing...I think the "proof" IMHO might lie in the Ark of the Covenant bit below...

Don't quote me on this, but I strongly believe that I heard on the programme that the Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia...guarded 24/7 and no one dare enter under pain of death. From the gist of the documentary one could leave with the impression that other than those mentioned in the Bible, the Ethiopians were the first Christians.[/b]

The question becomes why aren't we updated on these supposedly new "facts" on the Ethiopian accounts? Is it a white vs black thingy? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] ie in no way can Christianity be attributed to having it's origins in Africa?...and btw Egypt [Africa] was mentioned as one place where Jesus had fled to at one point..

As for historical accounts, remember that the first University was founded in Africa [Timbuktu], who is to say that much of the accounts of Jesus' life wasn't destroyed by design or acccident or lost to decay.

Even more interesting:

The Story of Africa| BBC World Service

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/index_section16.shtml

The history of the continent from an African perspective. With hundreds of pages, and multi-media, the BBC investigates the events and characters that have made African history from the origins of humankind to the end of South African apartheid.

click on #6

Maybe this might convince Fledgist that this is NOT a white man's religion afterall. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

**servant** · 02-24-2004, 09:58 AM

Re: The Jesus question(s)

"Fill your pockets with stones. Find a deep lake. Jump in it."

I am trying to be civil.

The Jesus question(s)

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

ads