Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

[neutral]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Originally posted by Jazz:
[qb] So anyway - what do you think about red cars??? [/qb]

uuugghh!!!cant stand them!!...no class [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Suesumba]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

and i might add that a lot of middle eastern men are being racially profiled as terrorist because there are some middle eastern men who are terrorist. now there's a case that's happened recently where a pakistani man was detained and investigated by csis (canada cia) for taking pictures of certain landmarks for his children while on vacation in canada. why? because he fit the supposed profile of a terrorist.

i'm not saying racial profiling is right. however, when i warn my three black boys about walking late at nights i let them know that they have to be vigilant because there are a few out there who have given many a bad name. that's the reality of the situation.

there are many hard working young men who've earned their degrees and can afford to drive expensive vehicles and dress in fine suits who are or might be racially profiled or not.

now there is another group of young black men (and in most cases it's them being profiled) who have no discernable means of employment, driving around in escalades and such and their deportment would not actually lead one to believe that they have a LL.B., LL.M. or Ph.D behind their names. they're the ones who make it bad for the others.

unnu can come beat mi baxide now tonic and him head cheerleader

[neutral]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Originally posted by SueSumba:
[qb] and i might add that a lot of middle eastern men are being racially profiled as terrorist because there are some middle eastern men who are terrorist. now there's a case that's happened recently where a pakistani man was detained and investigated by csis (canada cia) for taking pictures of certain landmarks for his children while on vacation in canada. why? because he fit the supposed profile of a terrorist.

i'm not saying racial profiling is right. however, when i warn my three black boys about walking late at nights i let them know that they have to be vigilant because there are a few out there who have given many a bad name. that's the reality of the situation.

there are many hard working young men who've earned their degrees and can afford to drive expensive vehicles and dress in fine suits who are or might be racially profiled or not.

now there is another group of young black men (and in most cases it's them being profiled) who have no discernable means of employment, driving around in escalades and such and their deportment would not actually lead one to believe that they have a LL.B., LL.M. or Ph.D behind their names. they're the ones who make it bad for the others.

unnu can come beat mi baxide now tonic and him head cheerleader [/qb]

tap mashing up de people dem good good high end chread [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] a joke mi a mek yah...unnu continue [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Tropicana]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Royson James, has pointed out in his article that he has taught his son's how to conduct themselves when they are stopped by the police. Also ensure that your son does not fall into the stereotype of wearing braids, baggy paints. These things of course, draw attention

I have also taught my son how to conduct myself and this is a no braids, baggy pants, cyap tun backways household [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] BUT I do remember stories of young Black men shot by police and I just think it's too risky to put a 17 or 18 year Black boy behind the wheel of a car and send him no his merry way in this town. It's WAY too scarey.

Originally posted by sagal:

sometimes when i'm shopping in certain neighbourhoods (with a large black population, like regent park) i'll get followed around the stores because i'm shoplifting. i've even been accused of changing the price tags on items up on eglinton avenue west when an item was incorrectly tagged by the store's own imployee.


i've lived in mostly white areas (rosedale for eg.) never had that problem. in my last neighbourhood which was mostly concentrated with italians and portuguese i didn't feel that i had that problem either.

i know that racism exists and i don't believe it to be "an imaginary construct". but what would cause these shop keepers to behave like this?

why is that?

i'll peek back in to see if anyone will seriously consider that for every action there's a reaction and sometimes we make it very difficult for ourselves because of our own behaviours [/qb]

Well let me give you a scenario Ms. Sue Sumba [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
Last year while shopping at Jane Finch Mall. I was at particular grocery store that guarantees to chop your prices...hint! I will not call names. I noticed a white man following a young black lady around the store. I said to myself that he must be a pervert...well I was wrong. He was a white plain clothes security officer. My fellow sister was a victim of SWB(Shopping While Black). I informed her that she was being followed...my girl gave him a lesson 101 on fine Jamaican patois. She thanked me, and we both vowed to never shop there again. I have moved on to support my Jamaican brother at Fortino's at Albion Mall. He is the owner! yes! So, when you think that you are not being followed you are.
I guess consider yourself lucky that you have not been followed in white establishments. SueSumba all I can say to you is just be a little more observant of your surrondings. Technology is fierce, however they don't have to follow you around, they can use their cameras too zoom in on you.

Sue Sumba all I can say to you is yes you may be one of the fortunate blacks that haven't been experienced racial profiling. However, don't be blind and act like nothing is happening in Toronto or elsewhere.

In regards to your statement Racial profiling hurts all of us! Just because Tyrone robbed a store, I don't think that my brother should have to be treated differently or looked as a criminal, because Tyrone and him share the same colour! Think about it! [/QB][/QUOTE]

Wow what a tale...it is important to vote with our feet. I have never had a shopping while black or driving while black incident. It pains me that these things go on. We really need to support each other and show empathy even if we personally have not experienced something.

I recall last winter, I took my son to play hockey in a small (read that White) town near Barrie. His team was playing the local team. After the game, we stopped at a local store and he went into to ask for something...can't recall what. NEXT thing I see him jumping over the turnstyles at the entrance closest to the car hard to describe. So I will draw a diagram in a second. I asked him what THAT was all about and he said that they didn' have what he wanted and he didn't want to walk all the way around to the entrance near the cashiers.


STORE DIAGRAM

-----------------------------------------
1 ..........................................1
1 ..........................................1
1 ..........................................1
1 ..........................................1
1 ..........................................1
1 ..........................................1
1 ..........................................1
1 ..........................................1
1 ..........................................1
1 .. Cashiers..........................1
1 ........................ Turnstyles..1
1 ..........................................1
-- Exit-------------- Entrance-

Well I FREAKED...."What the heck were you thinking? You're lucky that they didn't suspect you off shoplifing and nail you and in some of these small red neck towns, they'll plant stuff on you so that they don't lose face. ((Friends of mine who are Black and Asian and who grew up in some of these towns have tol d me HORROR stories.)) Don't you ever do ANYTHING like that again."

BTW Sagal, we haven't interacted before. I am really pleased to make your acquaintance. I am enjoying your contribution. I do hope to see you around Board Lane more often and have the pleasure of chatting with you again.

[Tropicana]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Tropicana, there is a difference between warning your son to be carfeul and saying that people make it difficult for themselves because of their behavior.

Agreed.

Are you saying that you warn your son to be careful because of racism

Yes we have discussed this at length.

while telling him that because blacks act a certain way is why whites will be racist towards blacks?

No we haven't talked about that. People are racist because they are racist.
Let me give you an example. Years ago, I suggested to a certain person (Black) that he cut his hair and get it shaped up before coming back to Canada after a Jamaican vacation. Well he didn't listen and he was harrassed at immigration. The next time we made the trip, he did take my advice and he had no problems getting through. Was this coincidence? Guess that's up for debate.

IMHO, like it or not, dressing a certain way or wearing your hair a certain way will make it more likely that you will be a target.

[Guest]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Originally posted by SueSumba:
[qb] now there is another group of young black men (and in most cases it's them being profiled) who have no discernable means of employment, driving around in escalades and such and their deportment would not actually lead one to believe that they have a LL.B., LL.M. or Ph.D behind their names. they're the ones who make it bad for the others. [/qb]

I don't agree that unemployed lay-abouts are profiled more than other black people. How would police know they are unemployed before stopping them? And don't black people usually behave differently in work and social situations? Don't police like to bring the well-educated, well-to-do black person down a notch or two, just to show who's really in charge?

If profiling was *really* based on the likelihood to commit crimes, why aren't white people who come into black neighborhoods to score drugs profiled and busted? Since the savings & loans, Enron scandals, why aren't white men in corporate boardrooms profiled? Why aren't blond, blue-eyed ex-soldiers (i.e. Timothy McVeigh) profiled? White teenagers who spend weekends at target practice?

[Tropicana]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

EDITED TO ADD: there are no high end stores in regent part, jane/finch or the eglinton avenue west strip.

Careful, they might lynch you for speaking the truth.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[Tropicana]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Originally posted by sagal:
[qb]

Originally posted by SueSumba:
[qb]

Originally posted by sagal:
[qb]

There are many high end stores on Eglinton Ave west..further up on Eglinton. There is also high end boutiques/stores(clothes are over $250) in the Jane Finch Mall and Yorkgate Mall... [/qb]

yorkgate mall???
high end store west of the allen road? i just happen to live there, i ought to know [/qb]

Suit yourself, what do you call a store that sell clothes $250 and up(designer labels)...there are two stores in there that get there stuff from Italy...I don't live in the area, however I own a home in that area. So I'm not saying this blindly [/qb][/QUOTE]

Sagal, at high end stoes such as those in Hazelton Lanes, Stollery's, Holt Renfrew's, the clothes are much more than $250 unless they are having a sale. I have seen T shirts for $250 in those stores and no I have not purchased them.

Just catching up on all the comments. Since I haven't been to the Jane Finch mall li over 20 years, I would have no way of knowing about this:

These locations all have designer names, like Prada, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Chanel,Marc Jacobs, Donna Karan...to a name a few. However, it's unfortunate that some people think that because a mall like Yorkgate or Jane-Finch Mall are in working class neighbourhoods...they don't think that they could ever a high end boutique/store in them. Darling, these are where you will find some unique Italian clothing and bags. These owners are from Italy! For example, there is a store in Jane Finch Mall, she has been their for many years...she sells Prada, Gucci. I remember I bought my first real Gucci wallet from her. I guess it all boils down to taste...and class!

I would like to know who in that area could afford Prada, Gucci and Chanel...I know I can't.

[Guest]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] IMHO, like it or not, dressing a certain way or wearing your hair a certain way will make it more likely that you will be a target. [/qb]

This may be so, but I have a conventional hair style and general appearance and it doesn't stop the French and British customs from stirring up my things looking for drugs when I'm travelling between France and Britain. Once the French x-rayed my abdomen to see if I had ingested a bag of drugs. (I have a British passport.)

Furthermore, isn't this similar to saying that dressing a certain way encourages rape and ho... err, the other thing?

[Tropicana]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Dressing in a conventional manner does not mean that you will escape harrassment but dressing in a stereotypical manner will definitely increase the likelilhood that one will be targeted. That is what I have tried to convey to my son.

[neutral]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] Dressing in a conventional manner does not mean that you will escape harrassment but dressing in a stereotypical manner will definitely increase the likelilhood that one will be targeted. That is what I have tried to convey to my son. [/qb]

but how can the police actually see what you`re wearing when you are sitting down in your vehicle driving...?

I think there`s some truth in the clothes thing,....but I also think that the police may use age as a factor when profiling.
a young black man driving a very expensive mercedes is obviously going to draw suspicion a lot more than his older counterpart.
if I may add,I also drive a mercedes,but I pass the police with confidence,I have nothing to hide,and suffice to say,I have never been stopped in it.
however,20 or so years ago,I would be guaranteed to be on the wrong end of a stoppage at least 4 times a month.

however,just to add,the police here in the uk act under different guidelines than those in canada,there`s been much reluctance to profile black men since the entire uk police force was branded "institutionalise racist" from the mcpherson report after the very high profile racist death of black teenager stephen lawrence,and the subsequent way in which the police carried out their enquiry into the murder.

the case

[yardy]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Flying while BLACK

"You've worked hard and you decide to reward yourself with a trip to a sunny destination beyond America's shores. At the end of your wonderful vacation, you board the plane for your return trip home. You arrive at the airport but, instead of making your way quickly and routinely through Customs, you find yourself being strip-searched and x-rayed for contraband.

[neutral]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Originally posted by yardy:
you find yourself being strip-searched and x-rayed for contraband. [/QB]

and the contents of your suitcase being shown to all and sundry during the course of it being searched very publicly.

last time I visited jamaica,I was unfortunate enough to have my underwears whisked from the bottom of my suitcase where they were enjoying their discreet little concealment,travelling incognito amongst the rest of my semi-dirty attire.
thanks to a rather butch looking over zealous female custom person with ten days of beard growth,my underwears were duly "outed" and displayed on the top of a table,while she dug her rather large crusty hands deeper into the crevices of my lous vitton,all the time looking at me as if she expected beads of guilty sweat to start dripping off my forehead.

[Tropicana]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

but how can the police actually see what you`re wearing when you are sitting down in your vehicle driving...?

I wasn't thinking of a driving scenario I was more thinking of kids getting harrassed by cops or security at places like malls.

[Tropicana]

Re: Driving While Black - Toronto Judge Throws Out Case Against Balck Motorist

Originally posted by neutral:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jazz:
[qb] So anyway - what do you think about red cars??? [/qb]

uuugghh!!!cant stand them!!...no class [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/qb]

Watch it!!

By the way, your presence is requested in the style and fashion section.