An Atheist's Journey to Faith

[Nylah]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith



I guess I was reading the stmt as to whether he took what he read as literal vs non literal. That's why it didnt make sense to me.

If the issue was that we could look at any story as a parable or such to live our lives then where does the issue of literalism fit in.

[Mutty]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^
Both statements in your previous posts are not necessarily true because the basis on which a person evaluates his/her position on a particular issue is not necessarily static. It's amazing what one is capable of seeing when one looks at certain things with a fresh pair of eyes and an open mind.

I'm really amused at how the atheists in these stories are view as not "real" atheists. Of course, that position only minimizes what God is capable of doing in the life of the genuine seeker, but it in no way changes the experiences of these individuals. If you read the first five chapters of "Mere Christianity", C.S. Lewis explains why he found atheism too simple in its denial of the existence of God. Any atheist/agnostic can have that experience. It is as stated many times in this forum - people looking at the same "evidence" and coming away with different conclusions. The genuine seeker will always find the way to God; we were created that way. </div></div>

I never said anything about anyone not being a "true atheist."

[Diplomat]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

^^^
OK then, more to the point: Do you accept that a person who professes to be an atheist can change his/her viewpoint and embrace theism?

[Mutty]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^
OK then, more to the point: Do you accept that a person who professes to be an atheist can change his/her viewpoint and embrace theism? </div></div>

Of course!

[mountaingal]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Empress_Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If the issue was that we could look at any story as a parable or such to live our lives then where does the issue of literalism fit in. </div></div>

this is a pivotal question, Nylah, IMO when it comes to defining who is atheist. Parables are keys to universal truths. As such, they do not require a belief in God to apply to someone's life, or for someone to take meaning from it. That's why you can find atheists like me who do not believe in a higher power but accept much of Christian teaching for the universal truths they contain.

[Nylah]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mountaingal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Empress_Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If the issue was that we could look at any story as a parable or such to live our lives then where does the issue of literalism fit in. </div></div>

this is a pivotal question, Nylah, IMO when it comes to defining who is atheist. Parables are keys to universal truths. As such, they do not require a belief in God to apply to someone's life, or for someone to take meaning from it. That's why you can find atheists like me who do not believe in a higher power but accept much of Christian teaching for the universal truths they contain.
</div></div>

exactly.

u made my point far more eloquently than me [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

So with that being said, I really dont understand (being deliberately obtuse in order to make a point) what the point of each side's argument is cause ppl are talking apples to oranges.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I put all <u>my considerable skills</u> as a <u>scholar</u> to the task. Bit by bit, I saw how the <u>evidence</u> for the Resurrection added up. </div></div>

He didn't say what that evidence was.

[mountaingal]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Empress_Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mountaingal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Empress_Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If the issue was that we could look at any story as a parable or such to live our lives then where does the issue of literalism fit in. </div></div>

this is a pivotal question, Nylah, IMO when it comes to defining who is atheist. Parables are keys to universal truths. As such, they do not require a belief in God to apply to someone's life, or for someone to take meaning from it. That's why you can find atheists like me who do not believe in a higher power but accept much of Christian teaching for the universal truths they contain.
</div></div>

exactly.

u made my point far more eloquently than me [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

So with that being said, I really dont understand (being deliberately obtuse in order to make a point) what the point of each side's argument is cause ppl are talking apples to oranges. </div></div>

i sometimes feel that there is a competition going on, for what i'm not sure. some sort of bragging rights?

what tends to get lost in a lot of this is any real exploration of what a person's belief system means to that person (and yes, atheism is in a way a belief system) separate and apart from its relation to another person's belief system. i don't understand why my atheism would be seen as a kind of critique of another person's christianity. i certainly don't see another person's christianity as a critique or a judgment on my atheism.

[Diplomat]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I put all <u>my considerable skills</u> as a <u>scholar</u> to the task. Bit by bit, I saw how the <u>evidence</u> for the Resurrection added up. </div></div>

He didn't say what that evidence was. </div></div>
Isn't it enough that whatever it was satisfied him?

[Nylah]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> what tends to get lost in a lot of this is any real exploration of what a person's belief system means to that person </div></div>

that is exactly what is missing and makes some of these discussions, well, nothing more than a _____ contest.

there is no real exploration for the most part that those who are willing to learn and understand another's POV, can garner from each other.

I do think it is relevant to this guy's conversion what he saw as evidence to make him change his perspective. That is how ppl will relate (or not) to his journey. What specifically and in detailed moved him from one belief system to another. That is the true meat and guts of his journey.

Everything else is just a superficial babbling.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

One thing about this discussion that was pointed out early, and yet not taken very seriously, is that there are and have been in the course of history, thousands of gods. Usually those gods are culturally dependent. Here at Jams.com, the only god is the Christian god. I'm sure the Taino had their own god... They werent Christians.

Most of African Americans, and people who were shipped to Jamaica in boats from Africa and later India, they had other gods... but, they were evangelized, and convinced of the power and magical powers of the Christian god. These decendents of slaves and indentured workers, lost their beliefs because they were removed from their cultures by Christians. They lost the gods of their ancestors, and accepted the god of their oppressor. This transformation took generations.

The same thing in a way happened in Albania. It took several generations for the population to forget the heroes and holidays of their past, and to accept the "new" oppressors as liberators and heroes.

[DC]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mountaingal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Empress_Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mountaingal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Empress_Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If the issue was that we could look at any story as a parable or such to live our lives then where does the issue of literalism fit in. </div></div>

this is a pivotal question, Nylah, IMO when it comes to defining who is atheist. Parables are keys to universal truths. As such, they do not require a belief in God to apply to someone's life, or for someone to take meaning from it. That's why you can find atheists like me who do not believe in a higher power but accept much of Christian teaching for the universal truths they contain.
</div></div>

exactly.

u made my point far more eloquently than me [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

So with that being said, I really dont understand (being deliberately obtuse in order to make a point) what the point of each side's argument is cause ppl are talking apples to oranges. </div></div>

i sometimes feel that there is a competition going on, for what i'm not sure. some sort of bragging rights?

what tends to get lost in a lot of this is any real exploration of what a person's belief system means to that person (and yes, atheism is in a way a belief system) separate and apart from its relation to another person's belief system. i don't understand why my atheism would be seen as a kind of critique of another person's christianity. i certainly don't see another person's christianity as a critique or a judgment on my atheism. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img] </div></div>

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img] I can't seem to grasp this either Mountaingal. Hence my "Why do you Believe what you Believe" thread.

[DC]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> [b]Here at Jams.com, the only god is the Christian god. </div></div>

I am not sure what you mean here fortylegz. Can you expound a bit? And I am asking because you may have observed something that we may have missed on this end....

[Dyoll_73]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I put all <u>my considerable skills</u> as a <u>scholar</u> to the task. Bit by bit, I saw how the <u>evidence</u> for the Resurrection added up. </div></div>

He didn't say what that evidence was. </div></div>
Isn't it enough that whatever it was satisfied him? </div></div>

Quite frankly, no. I may just need to inhale 'something' to convince me that the moon is made up of cheese. But I must make haste to say that I would certainly not want to cast aspersions with respect to this person's new-found faith.

I'm not in a capacity to comment on this individual's state of mind; however, I know of two individuals personally about whom I can say that their conversion from 'no religion at all' to a more fundamentalist type of christianity recently, seemed to me more a reflection of a certain psychological state rather than the quality of the evidence.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Here at Jams.com, the only god is the Christian god. </div></div>

I am not sure what you mean here fortylegz. Can you expound a bit? And I am asking because you may have observed something that we may have missed on this end.... </div></div>There is only one god that has "believers" on this forum. The Christian god. There are countless gods that people believe in... but on this day, and in this place and culture, there is only one god that people accept... the Christian god.

Dyoll has an interesting post below here, where he points out that conversions that he has experienced recently were more of a psychological experience he thought, rather than an intellectual one. Of course this is true. People stop believing because of the doctrines and hypocrisy. They join up because of the love bombing from the congregation... so to speak.

In America, atheists are an out group. Polls show for example that the electorate would vote last for an atheist. In other words, if you want to be liked, don't go around telling everyone that you are an atheist. It is threatening to believers.