An Atheist's Journey to Faith

[rudemonk]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I put all <u>my considerable skills</u> as a <u>scholar</u> to the task. Bit by bit, I saw how the <u>evidence</u> for the Resurrection added up. </div></div>

He didn't say what that evidence was. </div></div>
Isn't it enough that whatever it was satisfied him? </div></div>

Absolutely not. That is like me claiming I know the earth is flat. You just have to accept that?

The only person who has actual physical evidence presented to him about the resurrection was Thomas...and for that we only have his word on it, or the author's.

[rudemonk]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holly Ordway
... Something clicked, and I started to understand how our ideas of morality have to come from a higher source—from God.
</div></div>

Ms. Ordway is ignorant. I take extreme exception to this statement. Anyone can see that to live by a basic sense of moral and ethic codes is beneficial to the pursuit of life. I enjoy many aspects of life and have no need to recourse that enjoyment to God. I can see that to help my fellow man is to help myself, because if I were in a poor condition or state I would appreciate assistance. This is so simple.

People impose their morality- supposedly from God - all the time without basis and often to the detriment of the subjects of their morality...take gays for example who suffer the wrath of self righteous christians because of an improperly understood turn of phrase. And there's nothing to be said about lesbians at all.

There are billions of people who possess a morality that is not based on any notion of there being a God.

In fact, if you tell me you can't live a moral and just life without your morality coming from God, that scares the bejeezus out of me, and it's not a wonder to me that we have things like the holocaust and rwanda or wounded knee.

Walhalla mentions the Mexicas, how many thousands died for their god's morality.

Please, get a grip. Certain truths are undeniable and inherent and self evident. I'm sorry these atheists lives were so vapid that they were unable to empathize with their fellow man, but from where I sit they are in no better a position than the many God fearing "Christians" who pay a lot of lip service about their faith but deep down don't prove their conviction or rarely.

This woman, in an abusive relationship, lost, etc. seems rather ripe to turn. I have a feeling I would feel comfortable wagering that her new found faith in God could easily have been replaced by a set of Mah Jong players, if she had met one for coffee or a Tuesday afternoon bridge team, because from what she is writing that is the calibre of her new found conversion. In point of fact we see people 'find' themselves all the time through such pursuits.

Let her write to us from the slums of Calcutta, and I will then say she "got it."

But this...?

[DC]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Here at Jams.com, the only god is the Christian god. </div></div>

I am not sure what you mean here fortylegz. Can you expound a bit? And I am asking because you may have observed something that we may have missed on this end.... </div></div>There is only one god that has "believers" on this forum. The Christian god. There are countless gods that people believe in... but on this day, and in this place and culture, there is only one god that people accept... the Christian god.

</div></div>

mmmmm, but fortylegz, can we help it if there are folks who come on here already believing in the christian god? Actually I do believe with you that there are many out there, who are probably of another faith/belief. It would be nice if they do post and join in the fun. I recall ages ago starting a thread asking folks to identify what religion/faith they were of. I wanted to see the different people who frequent here. Amazingly, there were so many varied responses. I wish I had requested that the thread be saved in the archives. Maybe it is time for another one, fortylegz. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img] Tonks for the inspiration.

I understand that this place is a microcosm of the world at large. But I would encourage you to start threads that would invite other faiths also, if you are so incline. And as for not being liked if you are an athiest, that is a rather narrow minded view on the other person's part, whether they are christian or not. Unfortunately there are people who automatically do not care for you because of one's belief (once again, whether you be christian or non-christian or whatever). That is plain silly. And of course for the christian, it is certainly not christlike. This is where the seperation comes in. Maybe it is hard to differentiate at times, the person from their beliefs. But a person should be liked based on who they are, not their beliefs.

[Nylah]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This woman, in an abusive relationship, lost, etc. seems rather ripe to turn. I have a feeling I would feel comfortable wagering that her new found faith in God could easily have been replaced by a set of Mah Jong players, if she had met one for coffee or a Tuesday afternoon bridge team, because from what she is writing that is the calibre of her new found conversion. In point of fact we see people 'find' themselves all the time through such pursuits.

Let her write to us from the slums of Calcutta, and I will then say she "got it."

But this...? </div></div>

now there is a starting point for the discussion of what and who God is to you, if ever there was one.

[Nylah]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually I do believe with you that there are many out there, who are probably of another faith/belief. It would be nice if they do post and join in the fun. </div></div>

since you obviously have the ability to embrace those whose views differ from yours with an open mind and with respect, I finally think that this is possible around here.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
mmmmm, but fortylegz, can we help it if there are folks who come on here already believing in the christian god? </div></div> Of course not. Thats my point. We are social creatures. We believe about gods and magic pretty much like our neighbors and parents believe. Most of the atheists are people who looked into the religion that they were born into later in life.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually I do believe with you that there are many out there, who are probably of another faith/belief. It would be nice if they do post and join in the fun. I recall ages ago starting a thread asking folks to identify what religion/faith they were of. I wanted to see the different people who frequent here. Amazingly, there were so many varied responses. I wish I had requested that the thread be saved in the archives. </div></div>I might recall that thread... wasnt there a witch?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And as for not being liked if you are an atheist, that is a rather narrow minded view on the other person's part, whether they are Christian or not. ... But a person should be liked based on who they are, not their beliefs. </div></div>Whatever. Im referring to recent polls about the voting public in the U.S. Atheists aren't trusted. A person who doesn't believe in invisible beings is unelectable.

[Mutty]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> might recall that thread... wasnt there a witch?</div></div>


LOL!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A person who doesn't believe in invisible beings is unelectable.</div></div>


LOL!!!

[Diplomat]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I put all <u>my considerable skills</u> as a <u>scholar</u> to the task. Bit by bit, I saw how the <u>evidence</u> for the Resurrection added up. </div></div>

He didn't say what that evidence was. </div></div>
Isn't it enough that whatever it was satisfied him? </div></div>

Absolutely not. That is like me claiming I know the earth is flat. You just have to accept that?

The only person who has actual physical evidence presented to him about the resurrection was Thomas...and for that we only have his word on it, or the author's. </div></div>
So if the writer had elaborated on the "evidence", and you disagreed with it, would that make her conversion any less real? That's a peripheral argument. What I'm not understanding is why does the "evidence" have to make sense to anybody else?

Speaking of evidence, anybody with the time can get a copy of Francis S. Collins' book ""The Language of God" in which he documented his reasons (sceintific and otherwise) for changing his worldview from atheism to theism. If the name is unfamilar, he is the leader of the international Human Genome Project - the group that finally broke the DNA "code". I'm sure some will disagree with him on any number of issues, but the fact remains that this was his experience and it really doesn't matter if one agrees with him or not. Another book with "evidence" is C.S.Lewis' "Mere Christianity." Let's talk about those; they shouldn't be too hard to find.

[rudemonk]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I put all <u>my considerable skills</u> as a <u>scholar</u> to the task. Bit by bit, I saw how the <u>evidence</u> for the Resurrection added up. </div></div>

He didn't say what that evidence was. </div></div>
Isn't it enough that whatever it was satisfied him? </div></div>

Absolutely not. That is like me claiming I know the earth is flat. You just have to accept that?

The only person who has actual physical evidence presented to him about the resurrection was Thomas...and for that we only have his word on it, or the author's. </div></div>
So if the writer had elaborated on the "evidence", and you disagreed with it, would that make her conversion any less real? That's a peripheral argument. What I'm not understanding is why does the "evidence" have to make sense to anybody else?
</div></div>

Because if the end result of the conversion, in light of the evidences put forward, concludes in the result of believing in a bunch of malarcky, the end result of this real conversion wouldn't be any more or less real than the easter bunny or sasquatch.

Let's say I am 6yrs old. I come down from my bedroom one morning and see a basket stuffed with candy. My mom told me it was left by the easter bunny and that there are also tons of brightly colored eggs in the yard.

Monday morning I am at the bus stop proclaiming there is an easter bunny, after all, my mom told me and she said it is true and there was the basket and the eggs so...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Speaking of evidence, anybody with the time can get a copy of Francis S. Collins' book ""The Language of God" in which he documented his reasons (sceintific and otherwise) for changing his worldview from atheism to theism. If the name is unfamilar, he is the leader of the international Human Genome Project - the group that finally broke the DNA "code". I'm sure some will disagree with him on any number of issues, but the fact remains that this was his experience and it really doesn't matter if one agrees with him or not. Another book with "evidence" is C.S.Lewis' "Mere Christianity." Let's talk about those; they shouldn't be too hard to find. </div></div>

Well...now here is something. So CEW, a question if I may. If you accept Collin's conversion and put great store in the direction- atheist to believer- do you also accept what he says about Genesis and the very same genome which shreds apart the creation myth of Adam and Eve?

[Nylah]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if the writer had elaborated on the "evidence", and you disagreed with it, would that make her conversion any less real? That's a peripheral argument. What I'm not understanding is why does the "evidence" have to make sense to anybody else? </div></div>

I dont see where he has put forth any evidence to even disagree with. And if his telling of his conversion is supposed to inspire ppl to the same, or at the very least have other believers relate to his experience, why is it wrong to expect a more detailed account of what he is tlaking about?

I for one would love to know what he saw as evidence and how he concluded that. Those kind of things would help a believer not work against them.

[heretic]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I'm not understanding is why does the "evidence" have to make sense to anybody else?</div></div>If she expects sensible people to buy her story based on reason and not feelings, then the 'evidence' has to be public domain. Otherwise it's just as retarded as me saying 'You should believe in Brother Ananci. Once I was like you, but once I saw the evidence for myself I converted to worship the One True Spider God'.

[Compry]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

I don't believe she is expecting anyone to buy her story. She is sharing her experience. This is a personal thing that only you (general you here) can experience for yourself.

[DC]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
mmmmm, but fortylegz, can we help it if there are folks who come on here already believing in the christian god? </div></div> Of course not. Thats my point. We are social creatures. We believe about gods and magic pretty much like our neighbors and parents believe. Most of the atheists are people who looked into the religion that they were born into later in life.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually I do believe with you that there are many out there, who are probably of another faith/belief. It would be nice if they do post and join in the fun. I recall ages ago starting a thread asking folks to identify what religion/faith they were of. I wanted to see the different people who frequent here. Amazingly, there were so many varied responses. I wish I had requested that the thread be saved in the archives. </div></div>I might recall that thread... wasnt there a witch?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And as for not being liked if you are an atheist, that is a rather narrow minded view on the other person's part, whether they are Christian or not. ... But a person should be liked based on who they are, not their beliefs. </div></div>Whatever. Im referring to recent polls about the voting public in the U.S. Atheists aren't trusted. A person who doesn't believe in invisible beings is unelectable. </div></div>

mmmmmm okay [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]..Just one last question. So, what do you propose be done then, fortylegz? Seeing as it is a matter to be taken seriously and obviously an issue, and as you pointed out as it relates to ja.com and the christian god, Any thoughts? It is a certainty that utopia is not the realistic goal here....but what are your thoughts regarding solutions to this prevailing issue?

[DC]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't believe she is expecting anyone to buy her story. She is sharing her experience. </div></div>

I thought as much..

[DC]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

In closing, a very educational thread, I must say...