An Atheist's Journey to Faith

[acceptedtoday]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith


Just to make a clarification here there is no christian god. The God of the Bible declares all other gods to be false as in a creation of man's need to avoid worshipping him.

He makes the bold statement that there is none besides him. Furthermore Jesus makes the claim that he alone is the way the truth and the life.

So the myriad gods man has created are not alternatives to the christian God they are all false.

God declares himself as The One and Only God.

Thats where the God of the Bible differs from other faiths.

[Mutty]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: accepted2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The God of the Bible declares all other gods to be false as in a creation of man's need to avoid worshipping him.

He makes the bold statement that there is none besides him.

God declares himself as The One and Only God.

Thats where the God of the Bible differs from other faiths.

</div></div>

A little suspicious that it took them...er, him to declare this 23.5 books into the Bible.

[acceptedtoday]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith


Mutty,

Could it be that In the first 23.5 books the knowledge of One God was known worldwide the evidence of the schema and the oral traditions of the patriarchs had not yet reached contamination point.

The Shinar dispersion and the communication breakdown the loss of the Adamic language were are talking population expansion here spatially and culturally.

[Mutty]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: accepted2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Mutty,

Could it be that In the first 23.5 books the knowledge of One God was known worldwide the evidence of the schema and the oral traditions of the patriarchs had not yet reached contamination point.

The Shinar dispersion and the communication breakdown the loss of the Adamic language were are talking population expansion here spatially and culturally. </div></div>

I have another theory which makes sense to me. God and how he was perceived evolved in Jewish thought.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
mmmmmm okay [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]..Just one last question. So, what do you propose be done then, fortylegz? Seeing as it is a matter to be taken seriously and obviously an issue, and as you pointed out as it relates to ja.com and the christian god, Any thoughts? It is a certainty that utopia is not the realistic goal here....but what are your thoughts regarding solutions to this prevailing issue?
</div></div>Done? I'm really not sure what you mean? "Solution?" "Issues?"

It seems that there are Christians here of varying degrees and denominations, Witchy is married to a Jewish man, and the rest of the posters are a handful of atheists.

Change is slow, but obvious. In a few hundred years, Im guessing that society will be finished with gods. There won't be anything for them to do.

[Diplomat]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Speaking of evidence, anybody with the time can get a copy of Francis S. Collins' book ""The Language of God" in which he documented his reasons (sceintific and otherwise) for changing his worldview from atheism to theism. If the name is unfamilar, he is the leader of the international Human Genome Project - the group that finally broke the DNA "code". I'm sure some will disagree with him on any number of issues, but the fact remains that this was his experience and it really doesn't matter if one agrees with him or not. Another book with "evidence" is C.S.Lewis' "Mere Christianity." Let's talk about those; they shouldn't be too hard to find. </div></div>

Well...now here is something. So CEW, a question if I may. If you accept Collin's conversion and put great store in the direction- atheist to believer- do you also accept what he says about Genesis and the very same genome which shreds apart the creation myth of Adam and Eve? </div></div>
Sorry about the delay on this. It's a crazy time right now - sort of like trying to fill twelve holes with ten fingers.

In brief, Collin's position is that DNA analysis points conclusively that humans share a common ancestor with other beings. On the matter of Adam & Eve, he posed the question: is the description a symbolic allegory of the entrance of the human soul into a previously soulless animal kingdom, or is it intended as literal history? He also posits the argument that the Bible implies there were other beings on the earth before these two (a position I know some ministers hold). He continued:

"The real challenge for the believer comes down to whether Genesis 2 is describing a special act of miraculous creation that applied to a historic couple, making them biologically different from all other creatures that walked the earth, or whether this is a poetic and powerful allegory of God's plan for the entrance of the spiritual nature (the soul) and the Moral Law into humanity.

"Since a supernatural God can carry out supernatural acts, both options are intellectually tenable."

He takes the view that uncertainty of the interpretation means one cannot be dogmatic about a literal interpretation. Given that debate on the passage has been ongoing for almost 3,000 years, it shows no human can properly interpret the Chapter, and as it does not represent itself as an eye witness account, there's no obligation to take it literally.

His view is that of the theist-evolutionist which basically holds that God, who is not limited by time or space, created the universe and the natural laws to govern it. Further that He chose the mechanism of evolution to create plants, animals, etc., and that He used the same mechanism to give rise to special creatures, namely humans.

Personally I hold the theistic-evolution belief in what is commonly referred to as "theological tension", the same place I hold issues such as divine Sovereignty vs Free Will, the doctrine of predestination, foreknowledge, & election. They do not necessarily pose a theological conflict, but they are not without struggle. As I'm neither fundamentalist nor liberal, like St. Augustine of many centuries ago, the issue of time in Genesis 1 & 2 is one I'm not dogmatic about. As Collins notes, the Hebrew word translated day, also has other meanings including "space of time". Augustine wrote extensively on this in his Genesis Commmentary, and did not assume a literal 24-hour day either. Could God have used the same 'cookie cutter', i.e. mechanism, for man and other beings? He can do whatever He wants, and so BioLogos - as Collins calls it - cannot be ruled out; hence the "theological tension".

[Diplomat]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't believe she is expecting anyone to buy her story. She is sharing her experience. This is a personal thing that only you (general you here) can experience for yourself. </div></div>
Agreed. The article in question is simply that - an article in a magazine. I'd think the detailing of what caused her to change her beliefs would mean reading a book. There are any number of books in the market that documents other peoples' (atheists/agnostics) experiences and the "evidence" that resulted in their embrace of theism.

[DC]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
mmmmmm okay [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]..Just one last question. So, what do you propose be done then, fortylegz? Seeing as it is a matter to be taken seriously and obviously an issue, and as you pointed out as it relates to ja.com and the christian god, Any thoughts? It is a certainty that utopia is not the realistic goal here....but what are your thoughts regarding solutions to this prevailing issue?
</div></div>Done? I'm really not sure what you mean? "Solution?" "Issues?"

It seems that there are Christians here of varying degrees and denominations, Witchy is married to a Jewish man, and the rest of the posters are a handful of atheists.

Change is slow, but obvious. In a few hundred years, Im guessing that society will be finished with gods. There won't be anything for them to do. </div></div>

mmmm...Okay. Thanks for the clarification fortylegz. No further questions..

[DC]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

CEW says:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I hold the theistic-evolution belief in what is commonly referred to as "theological tension", the same place I hold issues such as divine Sovereignty vs Free Will, the doctrine of predestination, foreknowledge, & election. They do not necessarily pose a theological conflict, but they are not without struggle. As I'm neither fundamentalist nor liberal, like St. Augustine of many centuries ago, the issue of time in Genesis 1 & 2 is one I'm not dogmatic about. As Collins notes, the Hebrew word translated day, also has other meanings including "space of time". Augustine wrote extensively on this in his Genesis Commmentary, and did not assume a literal 24-hour day either. Could God have used the same 'cookie cutter', i.e. mechanism, for man and other beings? He can do whatever He wants, and so BioLogos - as Collins calls it - cannot be ruled out; hence the "theological tension". </div></div>


It is a notion that one can entertain, as I have been doign for while now, and leaning towards the theistic-evolution view. The word 'became' made me ponder along those lines...

BTW, are you familiar with Lee Strobel and his writings?

[DC]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=CEW][quote=Dyoll_73]

Quite frankly, no. I may just need to inhale 'something' to convince me that the moon is made up of cheese. But I must make haste to say that I would certainly not want to cast aspersions with respect to this person's new-found faith.

I'm not in a capacity to comment on this individual's state of mind; however, I know of two individuals personally about whom I can say that their conversion from 'no religion at all' to a more fundamentalist type of christianity recently, seemed to me more a reflection of a certain psychological state rather than the quality of the evidence.
</div></div>

I've been meaning to say:Dyoll, I can appreciate your post..

[Diplomat]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CEW says:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I hold the theistic-evolution belief in what is commonly referred to as "theological tension", the same place I hold issues such as divine Sovereignty vs Free Will, the doctrine of predestination, foreknowledge, & election. They do not necessarily pose a theological conflict, but they are not without struggle. As I'm neither fundamentalist nor liberal, like St. Augustine of many centuries ago, the issue of time in Genesis 1 & 2 is one I'm not dogmatic about. As Collins notes, the Hebrew word translated day, also has other meanings including "space of time". Augustine wrote extensively on this in his Genesis Commmentary, and did not assume a literal 24-hour day either. Could God have used the same 'cookie cutter', i.e. mechanism, for man and other beings? He can do whatever He wants, and so BioLogos - as Collins calls it - cannot be ruled out; hence the "theological tension". </div></div>


It is a notion that one can entertain, as I have been doign for while now, and leaning towards the theistic-evolution view. The word 'became' made me ponder along those lines...

BTW, are you familiar with Lee Strobel and his writings? </div></div>
Yep, I've read the three "cases".

[Sandie90]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> God declares himself as The One and Only God.

Thats where the God of the Bible differs from other faiths.</div></div>

So do a myriad of other gods! Wonder who's right? Maybe they can all duke it out and the best god wins! [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/fight.gif[/img]

All in all there are a plethora of people that go from atheism to faith and vice versa...so not sure what the point of this is other than a p***ing contest!

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: An Atheist's Journey to Faith

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: accepted2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Just to make a clarification here there is no christian god. The God of the Bible declares all other gods to be false as in a creation of man's need to avoid worshipping him.</div></div>
But but ... there is a god of the Christians. The god of Genisis, the god that made people out of clay and ribs, the god who parted the Red Sea, and killed everyone off but Noah?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: accepted2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He makes the bold statement that there is none besides him. Furthermore Jesus makes the claim that he alone is the way the truth and the life. </div></div>Well ther is two gods already... there is He, and Jesus... and although they are merged happily in doctrine, anyone just reading the Bible would never get this complexity that MEN have designed over the millennium.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: accepted2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the myriad gods man has created are not alternatives to the christian God they are all false.

God declares himself as The One and Only God.

Thats where the God of the Bible differs from other faiths.</div></div>
Perhaps the god of the Bible says that, yet he hangs out with Satan playing games with Job? How can the devil not be a god? And demons that get cast out... surely they too are gods too?