How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

[dahjah]

It's time to hollar.
What were some of the trials and tribulations you had to go through?
What about de trials now?
Are you satisfied?
Do we need to push likkle more?

How you feel about the state of the Blk community meaning where we're at thus far?

Since a blk histry munt enuh dis a OURSTORY! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Tropicana]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

Not getting any response to this one your majesty. Shoving things under the rug won't help folks. Ignoring problems won't make things go away or make hurt stop hurting. One of the reasons I came to this board is I saw it as a place where we could share our sturggles and offer each other encouragement and support.

Okay I will open things up.

For me growing up Black in Canada (Montreal to be sprecific), on the surface, everything was fine (on the surface) until Juniour High. That's when I started to feel excluded as kids were pairing up and I (as one of the few Black girls in the school was COMPLETELY ignored. Of course, at the time, I didn't have a clue that race was the issue.

Now looking back on it I realize that things were never fine. Our readers all had White faces, we learned nothing about Black history in school...or Asian history....or anything other than the contributions of Europeans for taht matter.

Getting a summer job was always a challenge but again I wasn't thinking about race back then so I didn't realize that this was a factor. The Black men I know who grew up here talk about being called the N word on a regular basis and being beaten up almost every day. Black men complain about being followed in stores and hassled by police when driving. That hasn't been part of my reality.

I grew up expecting work hard, do what's right and, while you may have to be twice as qualified as a White person to get the same job, everything would fall neatly into place. Boy were those expectations a recipe for disappointment and frustration.

I have found that even when twice as qualified, the opportunities have not come easily. Finding jobs has always been a struggle and taken a lot longer than White people with fewere qualifications. TWICE I have had co-workers with less experience get jobs for which I had alsop applied. I have twice had White co-workers without the minimum required qualifications and experience promoted over me. Filed and won one Human Rights complaint. The dating thing has been a bloody nightmare from day one leading to a bad marriage as I never did find someone with whom I was compatible. The Christian men (all White) wanted NOTHING to do with a Black girl (in high school) or woman (college and as an adult).

Occasionally, I still run into:

- the clerk goes to serves the White person ahead of me even though I was there first
- being completely ignored as if I am invisible when I approach someone White to ask a question or get directions...just ignored (this happens a few times a years and happened again about 2 weeks ago)

The biggest mistake I made was coming back here to get married. HUGE mistake. I don't recommend Canada as a place for Black people to live or raise children although I must say my son seems to be having an easier time of it. He has only reported one incident as a toddler when a kid told him he looked like "poo". One or two times he has been hard checked during hockey when he didn't even have the puck...not sure if this was racial. I have had to keep a close eye on things at school and if he was in the school public school system, I would have some major concerns. I don't think he will have any problems with dating when I finally allow him to date [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Black boys and Asian girls are in fashion and considered hot. Black girls and Asian men aren't although I do notice more interracial dating among the under 25 crowd.

In terms of where we are as a community...we're not progressing as a whole. Now I am not taking anything away from those who are doing well and many are doing well. Let me stress that before I go any further. I can't speak about the public sector but in the private sector Black managers are rare and Black directors and executives are even rarer. Too many in our community still live in inadequate housing, struggle to find jobs, etc. Our young people seem to be floundering without a strong sense of self. The school dropout rate among Black youth is still alarming. We have had problems with Black young men killing other Black young men. Two years ago, we had a slue of shootings every weekend for almost a month. Some were in broad daylight. The number of girls in our community having babies out of wedlock is still WAY too high.

I think that we are our worst enemies when shove issues under the rug and don't support each other. How can we expect to progress? As Jamaicans, our forebearers were never cowards. When did we start side stepping issues? Until we stop doing that, we won't progress.

[Fern]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb]
In terms of where we are as a community...we're not progressing as a whole. I can't speak about the public sector but in the private sector Black managers are rare and Black directors and executives are even rarer. Too many in our community still live in inadequate housing, struggle to find jobs, etc. Our young people seem to be floundering without a strong sense of self. I think that we are our worst enemies when shove issues under the rug and don't support each other. How can we expect to progress? As Jamaicans, our forebearers were never cowards. When did we start side stepping issues? Until we stop doing that, we won't progress. [/qb]

I concur.

[Suesumba]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

wealth doesn't accumulate in the black community. i remember by the time i was sixteen a lot of my friends had cars bought for them by their parents and i'm not talking some rinky dinky car neither. anyway, it seems to me that other people pave the way for their children and yet generation after generation of black people have to start from scratch. why?

is it only my perception?

[Tropicana]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

Originally posted by SueSumba:
[qb] wealth doesn't accumulate in the black community. i remember by the time i was sixteen a lot of my friends had cars bought for them by their parents and i'm not talking some rinky dinky car neither. anyway, it seems to me that other people pave the way for their children and yet generation after generation of black people have to start from scratch. why?

is it only my perception? [/qb]

NO it isn't your preception. If you look at the African Canadian Heritage Trail thread you will see that it wasn't always that way.

[Fern]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

Sue,

I say look at the difference in pay scales for blacks as oppose to other races. For many black people, by the time they take care of the necessities (housewhole expenses), there is just enough money left to get them to and from work til the next paycheck. So, it is difficult to pave the way financially for a lot of us. For many, all they have for paving the way is reinforcing the value of a good education, good morals, and determination to succeed. To me, that's not a bad start.

Another side is the one who do have a good income, but have the "neva si come si" mentality....buying everything they never had as a child or buying just to show the world they have likkle money. Either way, it will be a struggle.

[X]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

Yow King.. Interesting you should ask dat question.. Dont expect too much response still cause yuh dun know..

My take off the bat, believe me when I say I DID NOT KNOW WHAT IT WAS TO BE A MINORITY UNTIL I MOVED TO CANADA TWO YEARS AGO.

See growing up in Jamaica, skin nuh really matter in terms of how people treat yuh, what mattered was HOW MUCH MONEY YUH HAVE.

I went to a prominent high school, that was once an all white school. So because of history, the "higher colored" and tend to be upper class went there. Nonetheless, it didnt matter, black ghetto youth like myself flex wid the "Sirian" youths, no problem. Its all about who had the girls and who's parents had the money, and who had the better leadership qualities.
We had our crews, for example the youths from below the HWT clock was "The Warriors" and the ones above the clock (no matter what color) was "The Beverly Hillybilies".
Based on the crews, we'd have box football competetion, karate, Break dance .. ..
But never was there any color connotation.
In fact, I was PROUD of my black skin.. I use to say "Black is beauty, red is corruption".. and felt proud.. (still is)..

BRB.. Gotta run to the supermarket.. (sweet week off !)

[X]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

back..
King the man jinx I. Mi deh inna di line a di supermarket, mi big bottle a laundry detergent inna mi hand, fi cash it alone. Di cashier (a upper middle age (50 odd yo) lady, look pon mi while cashing the person before me and say " Lane one is open".. as if to say, mi fi go somewhere else go cash. Right away mi blood pressure rise, and mi armor roll out. So mi look har straight in di face and say.. "Its open but di lane full"..
She say OK.. finish cash the person, and then nicely cashed mi one item. No incident, no unusual.
Thing is, its weird how the slightest thing gets us ready for battle.. And its not because we want to, but because of experiences. Its must be tough growing up in such an environment.. People will get tired, and chose their battles.

Anyhow, So mi live a yard.. thinking mi a rebel.. Wearing mi "Black by Nature. Proud by Choice" t-shirts like dem a go outta style. Malcolm X's "By any Means Necessary" shirts neva miss me. (Lawd mi miss dem shirts)..
I remember my first interaction with foreigners that look different from me.. This was at a place called Shakeys Pizza (i think) in Mall (or Primere) Plaza on CSpring Road. A group of young white kids were there, chatting and with the boys acting like they own the place. I was there in my sweat pants and my "Black by Nature. Proud by Choice" t-shirt.. Just finished a rugby competition, feeling pumped.
So these foriners here, poking fun at people, acting like they own the place.
Me young, hot head, decide to knock them down a few. So decide to start licking out against the notion that fariners think dem can come inna fiwi country and gwaan like dem run things just cause a dem color. Sos attitude mi all a give the cashier.
Long story short, the kids were just chillin, and the people they were poking fun at, knew them. The meant no harm. I was just being an a-s-s (a skill I'd mastered)

Fast forward to moving to Canada...
First thing I was told be black here, "The more a Canadian smile with you, the more you dont trust em. Canadians are not to be trusted. They are methodical and selfish. They'll never have your back."
I was tool "I was too naive and trusty".. "Dis anuh Jamaica bredren! dem people yah use dem big brain pon yuh fi keep yuh down".

Still I would not believe it.. People are people i thought. Noway can people be that bad. It must be perceptions.
I do find that as time passed, I feel I am look at differently, but once the interaction starts, it tends to be OK for the most part.
Case in point, when I just got here, I'd hit the clubs with some Jamaican/Canadian associates. Thing is the club scene was always caucasian. So here we are a couple of black bald headed men in a club filled with young caucasian adults. never had a problem. they guys show respect, and there is alway way too much girls anyhow, so you'd have your hands full in no time. Now the problem lies what happens after.
If you're not carefull as a black man, I find you can easily end up like many famous black guys where the women after taking advantage of these guys, playing out their ultimate fantasy, they start to feel guilty, and ashamed, and scared. They then may just pull a Kobe accuser on your a-s-s.
Hence a factor in the high black men prison population and prison records.

Straigh out, Canada is good. It is a percievably stable society with low aggressive crime rate, and that is attractive to many of us back home.
We dont move here to enjoy the scenery.. We do it to provide options for our kids. Thing is there is a trade off, and that is, you realize that the world is a bit more complex than we grew up to believe.

My hats off to the born Canadians here. You guys have backbone. When I remember the foolishness I would fight for in high school, and see what kids have to face here, I feel wussa fool fool. becuse I would end up in a fight, just because a bredren was "nuff" or "dissed the program". I lost quite a few still, but was so freakin short tempered, that restraining wasnt an option.
Coming to canada and teaches u to pick your battles. But still, for our childeren's sake, sometimes we need to "point and bawl out". Not to take the crap lying down. If we dont fight the battles that need to be fought, they will..

[lapassionata]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

Xks. . .

[Suesumba]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

Originally posted by Fern:
[qb] Sue,

I say look at the difference in pay scales for blacks as oppose to other races. For many black people, by the time they take care of the necessities (housewhole expenses), there is just enough money left to get them to and from work til the next paycheck. So, it is difficult to pave the way financially for a lot of us. For many, all they have for paving the way is reinforcing the value of a good education, good morals, and determination to succeed. To me, that's not a bad start.

Another side is the one who do have a good income, but have the "neva si come si" mentality....buying everything they never had as a child or buying just to show the world they have likkle money. Either way, it will be a struggle. [/qb]

in canada where now into third and fourth if not older generations of blacks.

from my experience a lot of jamaicans and others worked hard, saved, bought the house, etc., stressed education, etc. and yet the children who are second and third generations are still floundering. this is what troubles me.

[lapassionata]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

I'm kinda young, so not much trials and tribulation. But trust me, living in the great white north, I'm just 'girding my loins' and buckling down and trying to prepare for the fight ahead in post-University life. I moved here with family at age 12 or so, and I was a quiet kid so I usually kept to myself in class and did my work. In high school I did my thing and because I lived in Scarborough, which is a really multicultural community, I had no problems. My best friends were chinese and Tamil; I actually had a couple of Black teachers, one of who looked out for me. So those were relatively charmed years.

Fast forward to University in Montreal, and well, things got a little sketchier. First time I was called ni**er, first time I had white people ignore me totally, first time I was followed out of a store and *grabbed* because I was suspected of shop-lifting (and check it, it was DOLLAR store!). Boy, some breed ah depression hit me in this city...I completely lost my way, my self-confidence, almost my identity in this city. Anyway, school soon finish, and I have plans that start with shaking the dust off my feet.

But anyway, to finish the story, there is a lack of visible role models in the Black Canadian community. There are plenty of negative stereotypes about Caribbean blacks in this country, and I feel like we're actually buying into them ourselves. And I hate the fact that only thing most people associate caribbean culture with up here is Caribana and entertainment. So no, we haven't gone come far enough in Canada, we don't have much political or economic clout. And since in the West money run tings...well you see where I'm going...

[Fern]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

Originally posted by SueSumba:
[qb]
in canada where now into third and fourth if not older generations of blacks.

from my experience a lot of jamaicans and others worked hard, saved, bought the house, etc., stressed education, etc. and yet the children who are second and third generations are still floundering. this is what troubles me. [/qb]

I hear you Sue, it's not much different here. I heard this morning about a website talking about what black history means to the generation X as oppose to the baby boomers and those who went through the civil rights movement. To me, it seems that too many of the younger generation are taking it all for granted and just out to get "theirs" from society and not making provisions for the up and coming generations. Sad state of affairs. I must admit I could do a bit more myself to help.

[caribelle]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

Wow...interesting replies. You know, like you xks, race wasn't a problem growing up at all. I am from the Caribbean - St.Kitts to be exact - so I grew up in an all black community. There was definitely the colour complex thing - light skin vs. dark skin etc. - plus the local whites feeling superior -but everybody got along as one. I didn't grow up feeling inferior as a black person at all, and I don't think my friends did either. We had so many positive role models around us - prime ministers, doctors, teachers, lawyers, judges, managers - all black - many females among them - that we knew there were no barriers preventing us from being what we wanted to be.

I went to Canada with a positive self-image, which gradually diminished as I settled there. For the first time in my life I started really feeling like a Minority - lke a LESS THAN. For the first time I started feeling different..inferior. That feeling was reinforced by the negative stereotypes of black people in the media as well as interaction with white people. I've had a couple experiences of racism in Canada -but more than that was just the subtle hint of superiority that a lot of white people give off when they speak to you. It's ever so subtle - but you feel as if they're looking THROUGH you and not really AT you. They don't consider you their equal and it shows in their eyes. Fake smiles and all.

I stayed in the Univ dorms the first year and felt like I was in a foreign land. There was only one other black girl in the building and she was in her 4th year. Just didn't feel comfortable with the white people - felt like I couldn't relate to them nor could they relate to me. Maybe it was just culture shock....But when I started getting black friends it was sooo much better. Just felt like I was in my own skin again. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

It was the same thing when I started working in Canada though - mostly whites and Asians. I used to eat at my desk every day because I just didn't feel comfortable in the lunchroom with everybody. One day I decided to brave it and sat down at a table with about 10 other white girls. WAS COMPLETELY IGNORED. They all sat there discussing movie stars and their fashion habits etc. etc. I ithought since I was new somebody would AT LEAST ask me a question - 'so where are you from? do you like it here?' etc . etc. NOTHING. Even though I tried to make conversation once or twice - the way they responded was like.. 'why is SHE disturbing us?' I felt like a Bug instead of a real person. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

My self image suffered a bit in Canada. I went through this phase of being ashamed I was black - ashamed I was from the Caribbean. Didn't want to wear anything or do anything to identify me accordingly. Then I went through the opposite phase where I wanted to proclaim my blackness - I suppose in defiance of white culture. I wore a lot of rasta/black conscious shirts, wanted to play my black music loud so everybody could hear - even started bopping my head on the bus with my walkman...'hey, I'm black everybody..look at me!'.. (can't believe I did that..) Then I finally settled down to being normal. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Anywaayy....all of that stream-of-consciousness stuff is just to say that being black in a white society can really affect your self image. It affected me and I was already an adult when I went there, with a good self image. Imagine if you're young and your sense of self isn't firmly rooted yet!

That's one of the reasons I would NEVER want to raise my child/children in North America. Nope... It's a trade-off as xls said. There are certain benefits to be gained but at the same time there are sacrifices. Sad that self-image is sometimes one of them. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Tropicana]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

I suppose in defiance of white culture. I wore a lot of rasta/black conscious shirts, wanted to play my black music loud so everybody could hear - even started bopping my head on the bus with my walkman...

You know what, don't fall for the blame the victim thing. It's not your fault. Even those of us who go to work in business suits and with conservative hairdos face barriers and challenges.

[Suesumba]

Re: How has life bin...For you to live in your Black skin...OURSTORY

a friend of mine who actually experienced the jim crow system in the states has relayed stories to me about how proud black people use to be in those extremely difficult times and i can't help but believe that we've lost that sense of pride.