What Are You Reading?

[rudemonk]

Re: What Are You Reading?

no I believe we have free will, however if we do then that pokes some holes in lots of people's beliefs...holes which I feel are very necessary I might add to start to strip away some of these ridiculous spiritual fabrications that have gotten mapped onto our belief systems.

the book definitely touches on science and religion, wether or not it makes sense yet I can't say I am only a few chapters or 'keys' into it but anyway I don't feel they are mutually exclusive subject matters- the same way science describes and understands gravity, IF there is a God and he is the reason why there is gravity, then sceince describes an aspect of the creator, short of proving his existence which has not been possible nor is short of YHWH himself dropping by the Larry King show...but there must be overlap within the scope to a point. Where I usually take issue is where people use faith to dictate to scientific inquiry, rather than what we have actually come to find out. Like Young Earth Creationists, or biblical fundamentalists, or anti evolutionists.

it is a fine point which I make- it is not faith in God that is the problem, it is how that faith is manifest and followed and what is believed, so it is the concept which people have about God or religion which I normally argue against or display to be irrational. Basically I am saying, if you feel it necessary to believe in something like a God, then for God's sake let it be rational and not gobbledeegook, grow up a little, lol...and at worst don't just pay it lip service, stop blabbering on about it and be about it. If 1 out of every 100 Christians actually followed Yashua's teaching we would be in quite a different world I would bet.

[Diplomat]

Re: What Are You Reading?

I agree you're making a "fine point", but I appreciate the clarity. I've said before that faith and science are not enemies, despite the behavior of some on both sides, that would want us to think otherwise. Whether or not the Bible supports science, or science supports the Bible is a matter of personal conviction, but I do believe that any movement forward involves a reconciliation of the two.

Same with the issue of free will. I do share the view that we do, to the degree that we're all personally able to choose between options, but I'm hard pressed to see how that could poke holes into my beliefs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If 1 out of every 100 Christians actually followed Yashua's teaching we would be in quite a different world I would bet.</div></div>
The influence would probably be more obvious, but then again, his teachings extended to all men. If each person were engaged in doing what they were supposed to, they wouldn't have the time to notice those who are not. But yeah, lest we forget, free will, right?

[rudemonk]

Re: What Are You Reading?

you're good until you say this:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">despite the behavior of some on both sides...</div></div>

science as a general rule does not care for religion. what I mean is it does not respect religion so by it's nature it steps on a lot of religious toes. that is the problem of religion, and religion needs to get over it. the only time science is an adversary of religion is when religion seeks to subvert scientific inquiry- such as what we saw recently in the Dover case.

the only time there are 2 sides is when religion gets it's back up over a sacred cow that just got roasted by some discovery which torpedoes the cow. I'm of course, not speaking editorially. Scientists are opinionated to be sure, but what you do not find are organized groups who are organized along the lines of debunking religion as their primary purpose, at large in the public, to the degree with which you find religious groups trying to affect public policy and thinking.

and also...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whether or not the Bible supports science, or science supports the Bible is a matter of personal conviction...</div></div>

That could not be further from the truth. Speaking again in general terms, science is not looking to support anything except the accrual and testing of knowledge pursued through rigorous inquiry along independent and converging streams of inquiry. Personal conviction can only go so far, because those convictions are testable and falsifiable. This is vastly different than religious beliefs or much of what is claimed to have happened in the Bible- metaphysically.

There are plenty of places in the Bible where science has clearly proven the Bible wrong. That is fact, and not open to conviction or one's interpretation or belief, unless you just want to be ignorant or wrong. It might be a matter of personal conviction- in the sense that your beliefs are put ahead of all else, that you choose not to accept certain scientific findings- such as evolution. But such convictions have little to no bearing on science. For example, the fact that someone does not believe in evolution will have absolutely no bearing on the use of DNA evidence to prove them innocent or guilty of crime.

Someone who personally believes in Creation is not going to be able to stop medicinal advances based off the truth of evolution.

In fact, ironically and even a little hilariously, the very same people who are so vocally upset about the fact that they share common ancestry with apes uses scientific advances developed through the application of evolutionary theory and probably owes their very existence to evolution being right, lol...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Same with the issue of free will. I do share the view that we do, to the degree that we're all personally able to choose between options, but I'm hard pressed to see how that could poke holes into my beliefs.

</div></div>

well, without knowing what specific beliefs of yours we are discussing, I think you hit the nail on the head. For you to have free will, you have to be able to choose between options...and I would say further to really have free will you need to be making informed choice. But that puts God into a pretty sticky ethical position which is unresolvable without accepting that God is not omnibenevelont, not omniscient, or not omnipotent.

one big issue is that if God extended the teachings of Yashua to all men, why did he not broadcast the signal to all men. A lot of people did not get the fax...so it is unethical to subject them to the rules of the game they don't know they are playing.

[Diplomat]

Re: What Are You Reading?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">one big issue is that if God extended the teachings of Yashua to all men, why did he not broadcast the signal to all men. A lot of people did not get the fax...so it is unethical to subject them to the rules of the game they don't know they are playing.</div></div>
Oh, they did but they didn't bother to read it.

Some interesting thoughts earlier, but better suited for a separate thread. What I will say though is that minds that are hostile to Bible or Science will always interpret everything in the light of their convictions, even when looking at the same things.

[rudemonk]

Re: What Are You Reading?

I don't think there is any way to claim universal dispersal of the information presented in the Bible- literally speaking.

God's message is subject to distortion, interpretation, a host of issues which then present ethical challenges to belief in Him.

[Gen]

Re: What Are You Reading?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anything resonate? </div></div>


umm unfortunately not yet. I stopped reading after a couple pages what with being so busy and all. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif[/img] I think I need to focus you know...clear my head when I pick it up again.

and this is my second copy. the first was given to me free on 5th avenue by some hare krisha peeps during one of their parades, I chucked it couple years ago and then purchased this one couple mths ago, determined to get through it.

[Gen]

Re: What Are You Reading?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Unlocking the Mystery of Depression - A Psycho-Theological Explanation on How It Happens, How It Is Prevented, and How it Is Healed" by Dr. Clarence Duff.

This book is the author's attempt to provide the missing key he believes is badly needed to unlock the truth behind our vulnerability to depression. It presents an integrative and balanced approach, not only on the understanding of human nature and vulnerability, but also regarding prevention and healing.

An excellent read so far. </div></div>

this sounds very interesting.

[Sandie90]

Re: What Are You Reading?

Just started reading "An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding" by David Hume. Will comment more once I've had a chance to read further. Just read the introduction and it's good so far. Has anyone else read this or his other works?

[rudemonk]

Re: What Are You Reading?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tek_weh_yuhself</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

and this is my second copy. the first was given to me free on 5th avenue by some hare krisha peeps during one of their parades, I chucked it couple years ago and then purchased this one couple mths ago, determined to get through it. </div></div>

I used to get books from those guys too, my fav was "Easy Journey to Other Planets"...

I kept getting it. Must have gotten 5 copies of it. Finally I was like, hey...you tryin to tell me something?

[Diplomat]

Re: What Are You Reading?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShellyBelle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just started reading "An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding" by David Hume. Will comment more once I've had a chance to read further. Just read the introduction and it's good so far. Has anyone else read this or his other works? </div></div>
Haven't read an entire book of his, but I do quite like the way he started his 'autobiography' - It is difficult for a man to speak of himself without vanity, therefore I shall be short. Published as a standalone, it was 72 pages long.

[Diplomat]

Re: What Are You Reading?

Inspired by the movie "Freedom Writers", I'm now reading the definitive edition of Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl. This book is said to be 'one of the most moving and eloquent documents of the Holocaust'.

For those familiar with The Diary of Anne Frank, this is an expanded edition.

[countryspeng]

Re: What Are You Reading?

the kebra negast

[Diplomat]

Re: What Are You Reading?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SPENGdon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-style: italic"> the kebra negast</span> </div></div>
Now, that should make for a very interesting read.

[Diplomat]

Re: What Are You Reading?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Completed:</span>

- David Berlinski's &quot;The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions&quot;. A secular scientist challenges some of science's finding/conclusions. Very interesting read.

- Allistair &amp; Joanna McGrath's &quot;The Dawkins Delusion?: Atheist Fundamentalism and theDenial of the Divine&quot;. Sort of a look at (but not a response to) Richard Dawkin's &quot;The God Delusion&quot;.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Reading:</span>

- James Kugel's &quot;How to Read the Bible: A Guide to Scripture, Then and Now&quot;. A look at how ancient interpreters understood the Bible relative to how it is understood by modern scholars. Very insightful read.

- Joye Jeffries Pugh's &quot;Eden: The Knowledge of Good and Evil 666.&quot;

[Compry]

Re: What Are You Reading?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> James Kugel's &quot;How to Read the Bible: A Guide to Scripture, Then and Now&quot;. A look at how ancient interpreters understood the Bible relative to how it is understood by modern scholars. Very insightful read.

</div></div>

Sounds interesting.