<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: foolya</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The prove is in the pudding. White folks never let go of the past. 2 centuries later whites are still teaching their kids to take vengeance on the descendants of the Haitians for driving out the French.</div></div>
White haven't you seen <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Black religious nuts</span> saying the similar things here? </div></div>
In the end it is not a race thing, but more a religious war.
Some will claim that is the wrath of God because Haiti is involved in Voodoo.
Some say that if Haitian gods were so powerful then they would have protected them from earthquake.
So putting race right back in it It is the Europeans who brought those Africans to Hispaniola and are in many indirect ways responsible for this suffering. If not for slavery some other people would be there and arguments would vary where the need to push religious agendas fail.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Some will claim that is the wrath of God because Haiti is involved in Voodoo.
Some say that if Haitian gods were so powerful then they would have protected them from earthquake.
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Couldn't some say that the Voodoo gods are displeased with the presence of evangelists in Haiti?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leddih</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Some will claim that is the wrath of God because Haiti is involved in Voodoo.
Some say that if Haitian gods were so powerful then they would have protected them from earthquake.
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Couldn't some say that the Voodoo gods are displeased with the presence of evangelists in Haiti? </div></div>
Good point.
So here's some irony when you consider Pat Robertson talking out of his [censored].
To cover the war cost against the upstart slaves on Saint Domingue (later renamed Haiti), Napoleon needed money. To get the much needed money, he practically gave away <span style="font-weight: bold">828,000 square miles </span>of French territory west of the newly formed United states (I think only 13 states at the time). The United States government took all of that land off of France's hand for a cheap 15 million dollars in 1803. Today that land area consists of Arkansas, Missouri, Iowa, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, parts of Minnesota that were west of the Mississippi River, most of North Dakota, nearly all of South Dakota, northeastern New Mexico, the portions of Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado east of the Continental Divide, and Louisiana west of the Mississippi River, including the city of New Orleans. Despite this, Napoleon STILL lost the war to the former slaves.
Now compare that to the fact that in 1917 the United States purchased a mere <span style="font-weight: bold">133 square miles</span> of land from Denmark that became the United States Virgin Islands (my homeland). They paid 25 million for it and it still remains the most expensive piece of property the United States has purchased to date.
Another fallout from the successful Haitian Revolution was that Simon Bolivar, eventual liberator of Latin America from Spain's control, made his way to Haiti in 1815 after escaping Spain's threat on his life. Before he made it to Haiti, he first arrived in Jamaica where he was denied support and had attempt made on his life. In Haiti he found support and protection from the new Haitian government under Alexandre Pétion. He was granted Haitian soldiers and other vital materials and returned back to South America to wage his war of Independence. Haitian support stipulated that he also free all African slaves.
I guess the so-called pact with the devil paid off for quite a few folks except Haiti.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I posted this in another thread
Pat Robertson is a media whore. By uttering such nonsense, he gets free media. </div></div>
No only free media but also he raises major fund from it.
The proceeds of one of his so-called fundraising to help war torn villagers in Africa turned out to be for the purchase of Helicopters to access the Diamond Mines cut off due to war.....That is his diamond mines.
The 700 Club Kool Aid Drinking disciples follow this guy every word like the followed Jim Jones I just hope my mom is not in it, she used to be strong devotee of Billy Graham and Oral Roberts.
from my understanding christians beleive in one god and one god only....All other dieties are avatars of satan...
At Bois Caiman a ceromony took place that dedicated the soul of Haiti to a combination of Taino and African dieties.... <span style="font-weight: bold">Thus from a christian perspective it is correct... </span> or is any one saying that these are the true gods and the christian god is the devil ????
I think to show support to the Haitian we should all recreat the ceromony at Bois Caiman and dedicate our blood to the these dieties....And repugaite the white christ....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuri_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said 'We will serve you if you will get us free from the prince.' True story. <span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">And so the devil said, 'Ok it’s a deal</span>.'</span> And they kicked the French out.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Diabolical_Tanya</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the voodoo priests offered to give the country to Satan for 200 years and swore to serve him. On January 1, 1804, the nation of Haiti was born and thus began a new demonic tyranny. </div></div>
So the demonic tyranny should have ended on December 31 2004, no?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from my understanding christians beleive in one god and one god only....All other dieties are avatars of satan...</div></div>
Dutty Boukman's ceremony was what <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Pat Robertson </span>called a pact with the devil.
The question is not whether or not it is true in terms of Christian Religious Beliefs the problem Haiti's Political, Social and Economic problems as well as Natural Disasters on that ceremony of over 200 years ago.
This is not the first or only time that he has used religious hogwash to explain a Natural Disaster.
Any human being that that believes in such idiotic gobble gock should be scorned and laughed at every time he or she sets foot in the public arena.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You watch these so-called christians fall on their own swords. </div></div>
For once I concur with something you say,...the christian cult will always find a way to put their spin on natural disasters though,this one will be layed firmly at "satans" door,...his PR people are not as tricky as the other fellow`s.
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Subj: Haiti: Boukman, Aristide, Voodoo and the Church.
HAITI: BOUKMAN, ARISTIDE, VOODOO & THE CHURCH
Over the past decade there has been a marked rise in the use of religious nationalism as a political tool. Religious nationalism embodies a rejection of colonialism and the present trend towards the globalisation of culture (global Westernisation). So it is not uncommon these days for a political party or individual aiming to take power or struggling to hold on to power, to use to religious nationalism to gain popular support and dragnet the vote of the majority religion.
This has been the case with Hindu nationalism in India and Buddhist nationalism in Sri Lanka. It was inevitable that eventually African Traditional Religions such as voodoo would be promoted politically in the same way. In this regard, Haiti (in the Caribbean) is most certainly the nation to watch.
BOUKMAN AND OTHER RELEVANT HISTORY
As with all nationalism, some knowledge of history is crucial for understanding the present situation. "Hayti" (or mountainous land, as it was known by the original inhabitants, the Arawak Indians), was discovered by Christopher Columbus and named "Hispaniola"(Little Spain) in 1492. The Spanish colonised the island and under their rule the Arawak Indians were virtually annihilated. In 1697 the western portion of the island was ceded to France and named Haiti. (The eastern portion under Spanish rule became Saint-Domingue, now Dominican Republic.)
Haiti flourished under French rule and became invaluable as a resource for cocoa, cotton, sugar cane and coffee. By 1780, Haiti was one of the wealthiest regions in the world. The plantation system was however built upon the backs of vast numbers of slaves imported from West Africa.
Several consequences of this era provide the foundations for the present situation. * Firstly - the West African slaves brought with them the religious practices of voodoo. * Secondly - the French colonial masters treated the slaves with such undue harshness they created hatred amid an already resentful environment. * Thirdly - a class of "mulattos" (light skinned, sophisticated, Catholic, French-speaking Haitians) arose from the relations of the slave owners and the slaves. They were at odds with the dark-skinned, voodoo practising, Creole-speaking masses.
On 14 August 1791, a black slave and witch doctor named Boukman led the slaves in a voodoo ritual. They sacrificed a pig and drank its blood to form a pact with the devil, whereby they agreed to serve the spirits of the island for 200 years in exchange for freedom from the French. The slave rebellion commenced on 22 August 1791, and after 13 years of conflict, the slaves won their independence. On 1 January 1804 they declared Haiti the world's first independent black republic. An iron statue of a pig stands in Port-au-Prince to commemorate the "Boukman Contract". (Link 1)
Since independence, Haiti has been in a continual state of political struggle and wracked with poverty.
PRESIDENT ARISTIDE, VOODOO & THE CHURCH
Haiti's current president, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, is a former Catholic priest who gained notoriety with the Catholic Church and popularity in Haiti in the late 1980s on account of his liberation theology.
Aristide was elected president in 1990, ousted in a coup in 1991, and re-elected as president in Nov 2000 (results disputed). He survived coup attempts in July and December 2001. November 2002 was marked by unrest and anti-government protests. The next elections are scheduled for later this year.
In light of the historic and political facts it is therefore very interesting that in April 2003, President Aristide made voodoo an official religion in Haiti (link 2) declaring, "voodoo is an essential part of national identity." (Link 3)
Haiti is reckoned as being 95% Christian (predominantly Catholic), but according to Catholic missionary John Hoet, Haitians "are 100% voodoo". (Link 4)
It is primarily the growing evangelical Christian Church in Haiti that is opposed to voodoo, actively working to bring people out of it and to help them find reconciliation with God and peace and strength through the Holy Spirit. (Link 5)
Christian Aid's 'Mission Insider' reported on 14 August 2003, "While some witch doctors want to renew the 200-year commitment to Voodoo, Christians are spear-heading a year-long prayer movement to 'take Haiti back from Satan', according to the HAVIDEC website. HAVIDEC (from the Creole for Haiti Vision for the Third Century) is 'a concerted effort of all the major churches, denominations, and Protestant organizations in Haiti to bring about a spiritual deliverance for Haiti on the occasion of the celebration of our country's 200 years of independence (1 January 2004)'."
ALARM BELLS
Several analysts have already surmised that Aristide's official recognition of voodoo is a political move to shore up popular support before the elections.
Los Angeles Times reporter Carol J. Williams found evidence to support that theory when she interviewed people in Haiti recently. (Link 3)
"Aristide is the only president in our history who has done something for us," said one voodoo practitioner. "We will stay with him forever and perform every ceremony necessary to keep him in power. We will not negotiate with any country on this, no matter how much pressure they put on us. We will eat rocks if we have to, as long as we can keep him in power."
Williams says, "Legitimising voodoo has strengthened Aristide's image as a man of the people and probably has enhanced popular support for the rumoured bid by the former Roman Catholic priest to amend the constitution so he can seek a now-prohibited third term as president.
"By bestowing legitimacy on the African-origin religion, Aristide, the beleaguered president of this poorest of Western countries, has signalled to his people that they should be proud of their African heritage, not forced to subvert it under the religious practices of the European Christians who once repressed them."
There is concern that the promotion of voodoo as "an essential part of national identity", could signal danger for evangelical Christians. Williams quotes one Haitian as saying, "Voodoo has done everything for Haiti. It gave us our independence, while the imported religions held us by the throat."
Christian Aid reported recently (14 August), "One ministry spokesman in northern Haiti said five of its pastors had been murdered recently. He blamed it on the strong influence of Voodoo in the area. No other details were available." This report, from a highly trusted and reliable source, is being further investigated.
3) "Official recognition of voodoo in Haiti stirs enthusiasm, concern." By Carol J. Williams, Los Angeles Times, 6 Aug 2003 http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/21...recognition_of _voodoo_in_Haiti_stirs_enthusiasm_concern+.shtml
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It is the Europeans who brought those Africans to Hispaniola and are in many indirect ways responsible for this suffering. If not for slavery some other people would be there and arguments would vary where the need to push religious agendas fail.
wonder what's Missa Roberson's reason for the 2004 Tsunami that killed over 300,000 people in Thailand? 
So the demonic tyranny should have ended on December 31 2004, no?
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