1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

[Fledgist]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Originally posted by Trelli:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by servant:
[qb] "It's a pretty underhanded attempt to smear all homosexuals with paederasty. Nice try.

Another transparent attempt to generalise information about a specific group of people in order to further obfuscate the issue.

Nice try [/qb]

This is a fine example of ducking. You're trying to attribute paedophilia exclusively to homosexuals, and being mealy mouthed about it. Of course, to expect honesty from you -- given some of the things you've posted, including outright lies about my published work, is too much. [/qb]

you are the one lying here though...

he did not try to attribute paedohilia exclusively to homosexuals. in fact, he explicitly said "the diagnosis of paedophilia does not address sexaul orienation".
he didn't say the priests involved were engaged in paedohilia. outright homosexual rape, he said. [/qb]

Do you understand what paedophilis is?

[servant]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

”I'd call him a pederast, not gay.”

And the the importance of this distinction would be what ?

”Likewise I would not term an adult man that has sex with little girls "heterosexual" I'd also call him a pedophile.”

If they are prepubescent, psychiatrists would agree with you.

”Neither case is the normal behavior for a heterosexual or a homosexual - in both cases the normal behavior is romance/sex/whatever with an adult of the preferred sex.”

I would agree that there is nothing normal about the behavior of the priests under discussion. The term being used to describe the priests is what I am seeking to clarify.

”I'm not really clear on what age has to do with the sexual orientation of the abuser...either the victim is over the age of consent or they are not.”

It has everything to do with age. Pedophilia is a mental disorder and is defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition (Text Revision) or the DSM-IV-TR for short, as “Recurrent, intense, sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children.” Homosexuality was removed from the DSM years ago (that's another post) so you will find no reference therein to sex with same-sex pubertal or post pubertal boys being a mental disorder.

”According to the stats I posted earlier, most victims of pedophilia are girls, and most abusers are men”.

True

”So most sexual abusers of children are heterosexual, using the definition you are using for the priests.“

Of pubescent and post-pubescent girls yes.

”All I'm saying is if you use the sex of the adult and the sex of the child to declare the abuser homosexual, you must use it in all cases.”

Depending on the age of the victim. Again, Pedophilia, as presently defined, is not orientation dependent.

”And that would mean most sexual abusers outside the priesthood are heterosexual.”

Yes.

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Originally posted by servant:
”I'd call him a pederast, not gay.”

And the the importance of this distinction would be what ?

That he's having sex with children, not adults.

”Likewise I would not term an adult man that has sex with little girls "heterosexual" I'd also call him a pedophile.”

If they are prepubescent, psychiatrists would agree with you.

...and if they are old enough to consent then they're just heterosexual. So I think we agree.

”Neither case is the normal behavior for a heterosexual or a homosexual - in both cases the normal behavior is romance/sex/whatever with an adult of the preferred sex.”

I would agree that there is nothing normal about the behavior of the priests under discussion. The term being used to describe the priests is what I am seeking to clarify.

Pederast is the term, I think. Unless the boys are over the age of consent in which case I call it sex. Wildly inappropriate sex, given that it's a priest-parishioner relationship, but legal nonetheless.

”So most sexual abusers of children are heterosexual, using the definition you are using for the priests.“

Of pubescent and post-pubescent girls yes.

OK, so where is the "no" if pubescent and post-pubescent girls are "yes"?

[servant]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

"Unless the boys are over the age of consent in which case I call it sex. Wildly inappropriate sex, given that it's a priest-parishioner relationship, but legal nonetheless. "

I disagree. If they are over the age of consent it is not just sex, it is homosexual sex. And if it is against their will, such as many of the victims have gone on record saying, it is also rape. The last time I checked, rape was still illegal.

"OK, so where is the "no" if pubescent and post-pubescent girls are "yes"?"

"No" if they are prepubescent. In those cases, they would simply be pedophiles.

By the way ohliz, I appreciate the tone of your posts. Thanks.

[mangoskin]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

..but how is the Catholic church to address this problem, and put in place church policy to deal with it?

(wonder how many abusive priests there are in JA? Would there ever be an in-depth investigation there?)

[servant]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Well mango, in my humble opinion, a good start might have been to abide by the law. How's that for a policy.

Everyone of these men should have been arrested and tried in court.

[Trelli]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

rape is illegal. paedophilia is illegal. maybe if the cardinals weren't busy covering these ol fawts collective a$$es, they would been properly dealt with in a court of law.

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

rape is illegal. paedophilia is illegal. maybe if the cardinals weren't busy covering these ol fawts collective a$$es, they would been properly dealt with in a court of law.

Agreed.

It's a real shame that this has been going on and then been covered up for so long.

I'd love to get back to Britisha's question if we can....has any other church had a similar pattern of complaints and if so, have they undertaken any kind of study of their own clergy as the Catholic church has done in response to this crisis?

It seems to me that wherever there are children, there are pedophiles. We hear of abusive school teachers or coaches, camp counselors, daycare workers, etc. all the time.

I would think non-Catholic churches wouldn't be that different...unless we assume that religious people are holding themselves to a higher standard than the general population?

We have seen this is NOT the case in the Catholic church, their problem seems as widespread as in the general public, maybe even more so.

But other churches and religious organizations of faiths other than Christianity?

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

By the way ohliz, I appreciate the tone of your posts. Thanks.

And I yours, servant.

[tonic]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Originally posted by Trelli:
[qb] rape is illegal. paedophilia is illegal. maybe if the cardinals weren't busy covering these ol fawts collective a$$es, they would been properly dealt with in a court of law. [/qb]

Trelli, one of the legal defense that some of these homosexual priest are using is that some of these acts were consentual consented to. The implication is that is these acts were consentual then it was not like the priests were guilty of rape. The issue then become one of consentual sex and not sexual abuse.

[wonbyone]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Originally posted by Payroll:
[qb] why are priest not allowed to marry? [/qb]

Some are. The stipulation is that they can only come from the ranks of Anglicans and they must have been married before becoming a Catholic priest.

Edit:excuse me but they can come from the ranks of Episcopalians not Anglican.

[wonbyone]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Originally posted by Fledgist:
No Christian has ever committed a crime. If they do, they're immediately defined as 'not true Christians'. [/QB]

Wrong again! They are classified as human.

[Fledgist]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Originally posted by Tim:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
No Christian has ever committed a crime. If they do, they're immediately defined as 'not true Christians'. [/qb]

Wrong again! They are classified as human. [/QB]

Anything but Christian. Frankly, given the crimes of Christianity, I am deeply ashamed to be a member of the same species.

[Trelli]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

are you really a member of the same species?
funny, I was thinking you were some sort of alien... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[wonbyone]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by Tim:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
No Christian has ever committed a crime. If they do, they're immediately defined as 'not true Christians'. [/qb]

Wrong again! They are classified as human. [/qb]

Anything but Christian. Frankly, given the crimes of Christianity, I am deeply ashamed to be a member of the same species. [/QB]

What are you saying then? Surely you are not claiming to be perfect? Are you saying that an atheist pedophile is somehow better than a Christian pedophile? Oh the crimes that atheists commit because they believe that there is no one to answer to! (Sorry, I could not resist turning your reasoning around to exploit its weakness.) BTW Christianity cannot commit crimes only people can. Faith is not a physical being.