Can a person fall from grace?

[DC]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your point Silent_River and CEW's is exactly why I posted that other perspective when I came across it. We (human) cannot and will not understand the extent of God's grace and mercy. To us, we believe it's extended only in life. How many of us know what goes on after death? I don't. I've learned to stop trying to figure out what God has done, is doing and will do.

</div></div>

I tell you Compry...we cannot know with absolute certainty can we? [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70384-praying.gif[/img] grace is a renewed gift every morning we wake up...... [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70459-hugs.gif[/img]

[Compry]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

One of my favorite scripture...Lam. 3:22-23. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70459-hugs.gif[/img]

I'm doing something on this site and decided to search on the current subject and found this other perspective.

Is suicide a sin?

In today’s society, suicide is increasingly viewed as an acceptable means of solving one’s problems. In some legal systems, medical professionals have been given the right, and even the power, to assist in the suicide of those whose conditions render them incapable of carrying out the act themselves. Aside from the moral and ethical issues this raises on the human level, what does God say about suicide?

The Sixth Commandment states, “You shall not kill” (Ex. 20:13; Deut. 5:17). Notice that there is no distinction made between killing another person and killing oneself.

A person considering suicide has reached that point by allowing circumstances in his life to rule over him. The apostle Paul asked, “Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Rom. 6:16). In verse 12, he exhorts us, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lusts thereof.”

In Matthew 22:39, Christ taught, “…You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” In Ephesians 5:29, Paul stated, “For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it…” A person contemplating suicide may say that he hates himself, but his real motivation is one of utter self-love, to the point that he totally disregards the feelings and needs of others, and the impact that his actions will have on his family and friends. In I Corinthians 13:5, Paul stated, “[Charity (love)] seeks not its own…” He also stated, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel [a non-believer]” (I Tim. 5:8).

Those who commit suicide receive the same judgment as those who do not even believe God’s Word. Their ultimate reward is shown in Revelation 21:8: “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

The Bible clearly shows that the unpardonable sin is any sin unrepented of (Heb. 10:26; I John 5:16; Jas. 4:17). Killing is plainly sin. One who kills himself is certainly in jeopardy of being left in an unrepentant condition.

Source

[Rev James]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

CEW!


Matthew 12:31-32 (KJV)
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. [32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.



“I really don't believe anyone can answer that question with absolute certainty either way, however one could argue that grace is a gift extended by God and not something we can earn or forfeit.”

GRACE

b. Mercy; clemency. 5. A favor rendered by one who need not do so; indulgence.
6. A temporary immunity or exemption; a reprieve.

If grace is a gift. Then it cannot be earn. However, it can be rejected, spurned, lost, or stolen.

[niceniss]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrJames</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can a sinner reach the place in sin where God will not pardon him or her? My aunt’s husband was a vile sinner. He hurt so many people until the people banned together and employed the service of couple of wizards. The wizards came to his house, throw him a rope, and told him to hang himself. He hanged himself two times and some how miraculously escaped. I was called in to pray with him. We both prayed and cry. He could not forgive himself for what he has done to people, so he finally hanged himself the third time. This time he died. When I was little, I hit one of his dogs, he told me that by twelve noon, my cutlass is going to chop me up, and so it was. However, now it was his time to take the count.

http://www.rtbpms.com/stopwastingtime.html </div></div>

he needed to forgive himself...

[Nylah]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'> The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16 According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,</span>

So You want to tell me that this author really believe that a

christian can do anything and then end up the same place as

those who try and us successful at keeping Gods laws, as long as he really believe?

So you mean that this author really belueve that if a christian really beileve in God,he can do such an act as commit suicide?

You mean that he does not rely on God ,but take his life instead,and still believe in God at that time?

He/she was either drunk hwen he was writiung this or he does not really belueve the tennets of Christianity.

No wonder they practice so much deviant behavior and bring dusrepute to the religion. </div></div>

so you mean to say that any sin that goes unrepented by a Christian and they die, they will not be let into heaven.... good reason to be a believer when none of us have the ability to be perfect and act with sin every single waking moment of out lives......

and what about ppl who commit suicide due to a mental illness? They dont have the capacity or same internal tools to pull themselves emotionally from where they are and not harm themselves. They deserve comdemnation to I would guess by this argument.

Lovely.

[Rev James]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

Empress!

Your questions seem to be legitimate and without sarcasm. I think I should respond to you. God know all the people who truly love him, and want to serve him. He therefore, went ahead and pre-destine those people. So, regardless of how they end, has little effect on their final salivation.

God is not in any contest with his people. He is not waiting for you to sin, so clabber you.

Exodus 33:19 (KJV) And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

[Rev James]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

A VENDETTA FOR THE PROPHETS.


As you, serve God. You must be constantly examine your spirit, to see if you are in the faith.

2 Cor. 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


The people would not receive Jesus’ message because of envy.

Matthew 27:17-18 (KJV) Therefore, when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ? [18] For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.

THEY ENVIED MOSES.

Psalm 106:16 (KJV)
They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the Lord.

1 Cor. 3:3 (KJV)
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

They envied Joseph and would not receive his message.

Genesis 37:11 (KJV)
And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

Envy was added to hatred. Envy is selfish grudging of what another enjoys (Job 5:2; Proverbs 14:30; Romans 1:29; 1 Tim. 6:4; Titus 3:3). It is associated with bitterness, strife, murder and other sins (Eccles. 9:6; Romans 1:29; Romans 13:13; 1 Cor. 3:3; 2 Cor. 12:20; Galatians 5:19-21; 1 Tim. 6:4; Titus 3:3; James 3:14-16; James 4:5). Joseph's dreams incited envy in his brothers but deep thought in Jacob who took them as divine indication of events that would affect his family. They also helped prepare Joseph for his coming sufferings in Egypt (Genesis 42:8-9; Genesis 45:4-8; Genesis 50:15-21).

[Nylah]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrJames</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Empress!

Your questions seem to be legitimate and without sarcasm. I think I should respond to you. God know all the people who truly love him, and want to serve him. He therefore, went ahead and pre-destine those people. So, regardless of how they end, has little effect on their final salivation.

God is not in any contest with his people. He is not waiting for you to sin, so clabber you.

Exodus 33:19 (KJV) And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.



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my question was rhetorical because I disagree with what Dr Dudd wrote.

but predestination opens up another can of worms for me which I have hardly seen a valid Christian interpretation for.

[Mutty]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Empress_Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
but predestination opens up another can of worms for me which I have hardly seen a valid Christian interpretation for. </div></div>

Boy, does it ever!

[neutral]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

"Can a person fall from grace"..?

Depends on what position they were in,and how big grace was,...now take the missionary position,..imagine if the person was precariously balanced on a well fed 20 stone grace,....it could be curtains if he wasnt holding on tight when grace....lets say ..."arrives" where she was going.

[DC]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Can a person fall from grace"..?

Depends on what position they were in,and how big grace was,...now take the missionary position,..imagine if the person was precariously balanced on a well fed 20 stone grace,....it could be curtains if he wasnt holding on tight when grace....lets say ..."arrives" where she was going. </div></div>

Newtral, yu need Grace and Mercy.. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70388-shameonyou.gif[/img]
callin Dr J. on Newtral.. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

[Diplomat]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=CEW]The problem is I do not believe you can apply "simple logic" to the situation under discussion. One cannot speak of grace without speaking of mercy, and who is to say where God applies the latter? In Matt 9:1 we read "And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee." There is no record the man asked for forgiveness for anything, so he was the recipient of both grace and mercy. Likewise, there is no record that the woman caught in the act of adultery asked for forgiveness, yet Jesus made it clear to her that He did not condemn her for the act. Another instance of grace and mercy. The thief on the cross was also ushered into paradise without asking for forgiveness (Luke 23:39-43).

Grace is a gift; there's nothing we can do (even if we ask a thousand times) to earn it. </div></div>

1) Do you believe that Jesus could read what he was thinking,and forgiveness does not have to be verbally spoken,but done in the mind?

Not impossible, but that would be reading something into the text that is not there.

2) Didn't Jesus say to him that "his sin was forgiven'? Sound like Jesus heard somthing why he replied thus to me. But that is me an my looking for logic in things.

Yes, He did say those words as recorded in Matthew 9.

3) DId the theif on the cross ask for forgiveness,after or before death?

He never did. He just asked that Jesus remember Him in Paradise, to which Jesus replied to the effect that today, we will both be in Paradise (Luke 23:43).

4) Does the scripture support one ask for forgiveness after death??

No, because that's not possible (Luke 16:19-31)

5) Does the scripture support God granting mercy to a person who never ask forgiveness?

There have been demonstrations of it - the woman caught in the act of adultery is a case in point (John 8:3-11). Just as important, in the OT we read of God saying "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy" (Ex. 33:19). IMO, this is a part of the mystery of His Sovereignty.

5) Is it possible to asl forgivemness after one is dead??

No, see answer to #4.

[Diplomat]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrJames</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CEW!


Matthew 12:31-32 (KJV)
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. [32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.



“I really don't believe anyone can answer that question with absolute certainty either way, however one could argue that grace is a gift extended by God and not something we can earn or forfeit.”

GRACE

b. Mercy; clemency. 5. A favor rendered by one who need not do so; indulgence.
6. A temporary immunity or exemption; a reprieve.

If grace is a gift. Then it cannot be earn. However, it can be rejected, spurned, lost, or stolen.
</div></div>
I'm not sure what yours is in response to, but the text quoted has no bearing on the subject being discussed. Jesus made it clear that blaspheming (speaking against, insulting, making disparaging remarks) the Holy Ghost was the unpardonable sin, a subject that was discussed in a previous thread.

[mountaingal]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

if grace is a gift, how do you know when you have received it?

if you've asked a thousand times for grace, how do you know you have not received it? if you have not asked for grace, but God has given it to you, how do you know?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Can a person fall from grace?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HemGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if grace is a gift, how do you know when you have received it?

if you've asked a thousand times for grace, how do you know you have not received it? if you have not asked for grace, but God has given it to you, how do you know? </div></div> If grace is agift,what is the motivation to try to do good then? since grace is given at the pkeasure,meanung it is niot waht you do ,but whether or not he feel to grant you grace. Of course to me it makes no sence,but I am slow as you all know.