Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

[ohliz]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

I actual agree with the rightwingers who say you cannot legislate morality.

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Which ones say that?

[JUNE]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

WAHALLA,
wha yuh mean I'm di proponent secular, STOP CHAT FOOLISHNESS A MI EARS, CHAT ENGLISH PLEASE, WEH ALL DAT FA. Just seh yuh no believe ina god. cho. In a way mi can see how mon corrupt god's way and mek nuff ppl even disbelieve his existance but be wise. The earth neva create itself, then who? Please dont embarass yuhself an tell mi bout nuh big bang theory because my question is wha cause it? Mi specifically waan kno wha cause yuh fi come to this conclusion of an hateious? Yes mi perposely spell it wrong. just answer di question.

[Wahalla]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

Originally posted by A.SO.IT.GO:
[qb]WAHALLA,
wha yuh mean I'm di proponent secular, STOP CHAT FOOLISHNESS A MI EARS, CHAT ENGLISH PLEASE, WEH ALL DAT FA. Just seh yuh no believe ina god. cho. In a way mi can see how mon corrupt god's way and mek nuff ppl even disbelieve his existance but be wise. The earth neva create itself, then who? Please dont embarass yuhself an tell mi bout nuh big bang theory because my question is wha cause it? Mi specifically waan kno wha cause yuh fi come to this conclusion of an hateious? Yes mi perposely spell it wrong. just answer di question.[/qb]

Obviously I share the same belief of a secular society with atheists such as Tony Blair, Archbishop Carey, Desi Tutu, Jefferson and the other framers of the US constitution. A beleif in a seular society does not make a person an atheist.


I am an atheist.. I ususally state this as my disclaimer states. ( I post it once per thread). As for you summiarliy dismissing my beleifs as foolishnss is disappointing.

I

You will note I have no desire to debate the existance of god here. I dont think this thread is appropriate.

I dont chose to inform you why I am an atheist. I dont ask Angelfire ( The most ardent belevier, who once "claimed to have all the sexual vibrancy of the sum total of all porn movies.. You remember dat one AngelFire ?) [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] to justify her beleifs and all this time she has never asked me. I respect that. Despite us having diametrically opposed views on most things. Nor do I care why Whichy abandoned the Wicca way... So why I am an atheist is a personal beleif. I wonder why all belivers asks that question?

Ronald Reagan, George Bush I, Pat Robertson all used the claim that you cant legistlate morality.

[tracyradtke]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing -Anatole France

Too many wrongs have been committed in the name of any given religion for it's practitioners to claim innocence or correctness. --Unknown

In my humble opinion, the TRUTH is, that we are all right. Every one of us. Christians, Jews, Wiccans, Muslims, Bhuddists, Taoists, all of us are right, as long as we believe. The new tolerance is not anti-anything, simple tolerance means not invading the space of another who would like to simply believe, with bilious rhetoric.

To weigh in on the Creation/Evolution issue for a minute...Here again, both theories in my opinion are correct, here's why. God, who/what ever it is, created the universe by the only way it was possible (big bang?) and the result is the evolution of humanity and animal species, and the adaptation of same to climates and geographical areas. End result? Evolution is the PRODUCT of Creation.

Different paths, one destination. Christians have Christ, Jews go straight to the source, Bhuddists have Bhudda, Hindus have Ganesha, Muslims have Mohammed, Wiccans have the Lord and Lady. All of these are simple human manifestations and conduits to the One God. It strikes me as simple really, all roads lead to God. Not, however one God over another, as I believe that all are the same. God is neither man, nor woman. Not white, nor black nor asian, but all of these things. While we may not all agree on the road we take, we all hope against hope that there will be an eternal reward for our time spent here. A reward, issued by God.

One need not ACCEPT as their own, a belief, to TOLERATE it.

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[Dyoll]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

Originally posted by Wahalla:
Obviously I share the same belief of a secular society with atheists such as Tony Blair, Archbishop Carey, Desi Tutu, Jefferson and the other framers of the US constitution.

Blair, Tutu and Carey are atheists? Aren't these men fervent Anglicans? Was that a slip of the tongue or are you suggesting that they are closet atheists despite their public uterances? Jefferson, like many of the framers of the US Const., was a Deist; he believed in a supernatural being, but also believed that being was not actively involved in the workings of the universe, therefore prayer is useless. This being may not be all powerful or all knowing. Deists don't believe in the divinity of Jesus.

A beleif in a seular(sic) society does not make a person an atheist.

Tell that to the Bible/Koran/Torah-thumping religious freaks.

Ronald Reagan, George Bush I, Pat Robertson all used the claim that you cant(sic) legistlate morality.

Actually we can, and do, legislate morality. We do it all the time. Every law expresses some moral judgement. Think about it. Laws against theft or murder or incest or homosexuality, etc, say that we consider such actions to be wrong and outside the protection of the law.

What I think you're referring to the undue entanglements between church and state or religion and politics whereby religious groups seek the aid of government to have their particular dogmas effected through public policy, thereby resulting in intolerance, coercion and persecution. Am I correct?

[royalty]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

to Flashpoint
Are you perfect and allknowing?
If yes, how do you come to that junction?
If no,do you trust yourself enough to base your thoughts on your personal opinion?
You don't believe in absolute truth?
Just asking

[ohliz]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

Wahalla, i'm trying to find this online but cannot, what I am finding is conservatives accusing liberals of saying you can't legislate morality.

I don't disagree with you, I just find it intriguing that Bush I, Reagan and Robertson would say such a thing when they generally say the oppposite, as far as I know.

[JUNE]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

WAHALLA,

HOW YUH A GO CLAIM SEH YUH BELIEVE A TING AND YUH DONT EVEN KNO WHY YUH BELIEVE WHA YUH TINK YUH BELIEVE, DIS IS CONFUSION BUT IT'S YOUR CHOICE FI BE FOOLISH SO MI DONE WID DIS.


FLASHPOINT,

HOW YUH AGO SEH ALL DEEZ RELIGIONS IS RIGHT WHEN DI HOLE A DEM CONTRADICT ONE ANODA? WHY WOULD GOD TELL ONE GROUP DI WAY FI MEK IT TO HEAVEN IS BE BAPTIZE AND TELL DI ODA NO DO IT? DONT YUH TINK DATS CONFUSION? ALL DI RELIGION YUH MENTION WAS STARTED BY FALSE PROPHETS. NEVA TELL MON FI START A RELIGION ALL GOD SEH IS FI BE HOLY, NOT ATHIEST, CHRISTIANITY, MUSLIM, BAPTIST, ANGLICON, JEHOVIAH WICKEDNESS, SEVENTH DAY DISADVANTAGE, CATHOLIC, ETC. HIM SEH FI BE HOLY LIKE HIM.

[Wahalla]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

Blair, Tutu and Carey are atheists? Aren't these men fervent Anglicans?

I was being ironic..... All the above profess belief. All are acklowlege belief in a secular society...


What I think you're referring to the undue entanglements between church and state or religion and politics whereby religious groups seek the aid of government to have their particular dogmas effected through public policy, thereby resulting in intolerance, coercion and persecution. Am I correct?


Spot on erudite and to the point... I beleive strongly that the interferance from religion in public policy eventually distorts the political processes. This is clearly demonstrated by the interferance of various members of the clergy in Latin America. Its history is littered with the bones of the campasinos who have paid this price. (this raises questons on the effect of liberation theology in the Sandanista struggle, the moderation effects that the church lords have in the British upper house, Desi Tutu in SA...)

WAHALLA,
HOW YUH A GO CLAIM SEH YUH BELIEVE A TING AND YUH DONT EVEN KNO WHY YUH BELIEVE WHA YUH TINK YUH BELIEVE, DIS IS CONFUSION BUT IT'S YOUR CHOICE FI BE FOOLISH SO MI DONE WID DIS.


Aso it guh. I dont ask anyone to explain their beleifs. But every so often I get asked why and frankly ones beliefs are personal and I think it is rude to ask. I know what I believe and could ilustrate it with clarity should I chose to do so. I just dont chose to do so.

[fiver]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

good to see you are still here Wahalla. hello again everyone.

HOW YUH AGO SEH ALL DEEZ RELIGIONS IS RIGHT WHEN DI HOLE A DEM CONTRADICT ONE ANODA? WHY WOULD GOD TELL ONE GROUP DI WAY FI MEK IT TO HEAVEN IS BE BAPTIZE AND TELL DI ODA NO DO IT? DONT YUH TINK DATS CONFUSION? ALL DI RELIGION YUH MENTION WAS STARTED BY FALSE PROPHETS. NEVA TELL MON FI START A RELIGION ALL GOD SEH IS FI BE HOLY, NOT ATHIEST, CHRISTIANITY, MUSLIM, BAPTIST, ANGLICON, JEHOVIAH WICKEDNESS, SEVENTH DAY DISADVANTAGE, CATHOLIC, ETC. HIM SEH FI BE HOLY LIKE HIM.

i know this wasn't directed at me but i thought i might put my two shekels in.

HOW YUH AGO SEH ALL DEEZ RELIGIONS IS RIGHT WHEN DI HOLE A DEM CONTRADICT ONE ANODA?

i think that Flashpoint was stating that all were right to pursue their vision of the truth, that it would be wrong to follow a belief system you did not, yourself, believe in. i'm certain Flashpoint will correct me if i'm wrong.

WHY WOULD GOD TELL ONE GROUP DI WAY FI MEK IT TO HEAVEN IS BE BAPTIZE AND TELL DI ODA NO DO IT? DONT YUH TINK DATS CONFUSION?

good question. four possible answers come to mind:

1)one group has it right and the other has it wrong.

2)both groups have it wrong.

3)both groups are right and God approves of both decisions. one might make a biblical case that this is confusion and God could not be the author of confusion, but one could also make the case that God has used confusion on man when he confounded or confused the single language of man.

4)there never was a God.

i'm sure you can come up with a few more scenarios.

ALL DI RELIGION YUH MENTION WAS STARTED BY FALSE PROPHETS.

according to you. some belief systems would claim yours is false.

NEVA TELL MON FI START A RELIGION ALL GOD SEH IS FI BE HOLY, NOT ATHIEST, CHRISTIANITY, MUSLIM, BAPTIST, ANGLICON, JEHOVIAH WICKEDNESS, SEVENTH DAY DISADVANTAGE, CATHOLIC, ETC. HIM SEH FI BE HOLY LIKE HIM.

it would not be logical for any God, from Allah to Zeus, to tell people to be atheists.

i too am suspicious of organized religions that convince people they need an intermediary to be "holy".

cheers. and welcome to the board.

[tracyradtke]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

Fiver, that was my point exactly, glad you were able to get what I was going for.In truth, religion is far too personal to be bared in the way we're doing it here, but hopefully someone will come away thinking differently. to Flashpoint

[b]Are you perfect and allknowing?
If yes, how do you come to that junction?
If no,do you trust yourself enough to base your thoughts on your personal opinion?
You don't believe in absolute truth?
Just asking[b]

Royalty, to answer your multi-part question in order...

No, only one perfect and all knowing cat in the Universe, and I ain't it.
Of course I trust myself, I trust my heart, don't you?
Personal opinion is formulated by thought, in most people anyway, and thus, opinion is thought.
Do I believe in absolute truth? Absolutely.
There are unwavering principles here in the temporal that one simply cannot debate.
Examples are things such as gravity and relativity.

A.SO--Listen, this debate is age old, but my take on it is a different one, here's my theory.
God, what ever it is, (I say 'it' not 'who' on purpose) needs to let people know it's out there, so messengers are sent (advertisement).
The messengers deliver a message of peace, and truth and love. The receivers of the message would like to believe it, but the ruling classes bastardize the message and contort it for their own needs/devices/benefit to maintain control.
Do I think that many religions are confusing? Yeah, of course, but my taxes confuse me too.



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[accepted77]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

Angelfire

Lets do a little Bible study.
Acts 17:16
Now while Paul waited at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
17
Therefore disputed him with the Jews and with the devout persons in the market daily with them that met with him.
(Notice that the city stirred Pauls spirit - the Holy spirit in him - but his dispute was not with the idolaters or the city per se but with the Jews and the devout)

In other words he focused his message to those who would most likely recieve it, the believers, not the sinners.

18. Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoics, encountered him and some said, What will this babbler say? And others, "he seem to be setting forth some strange gods", for he preached unto them Jesus and the resurection.

19. And they took him and led him unto Areopagus requesting "May we know this new doctrine of which you speak".
20. For you bring strange new things to our ears and we would like to know what these things mean.

(Notice Paul did not seek an argument with these philosophers, rather the words of truth they overheard him teaching the believers drew them to request more)

21. The authour here shows this was a custom of these philosophers to invite strangers to share some new story.

22. Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars hill and said "Ye men of Athens I percieve in all things ye are too superstitious"

23. For as I passed by and beheld your DEVOTIONS I found an altar with an inscription TO THE UNKNOWN GOD, Whom therefore you ignorantly WORSHIP, him I declare unto you.

(Now Paul was stirred in his spirit in the presence of such Idolatry. But he, now speaking to the city, was kind.
Notice he did not berate their worship of the false gods, but simply revealed to them the true God who they WORSHIPPED in ignorance).

23 through 29. Paul use words like 'ONE BLOOD of all nations of men to dwell on the face of the earth'.....that they should seek the Lord if haply they may feel after him....even....For in him we live and move and have our being as certain of your Poets have said FOR WE ARE ALSO HIS OFFSPRING.

(Paul used these idolaters own words to seek a common ground with them)

Then in verses 29 through 31 he expounded since we all are the offsping of God we ought not to think that the Godhead can by made from the works of mans hands.

This is the centerpiece of Paul's argument If we are all one blood from one source and this source is God then since we were made of him we cannot create our maker with our hands or with our minds.

32. Notice it was not the broad agreement about God that met resistence it was the notion of the Jesus resurection from the dead.

The stumbling block to the world is not our stance on abortion, homosexuality, or other issue, it is Jesus and his resurection.

I abhor the murder of children in abortion clinics as much as you, but the issue is issues.

It is the acknowledgement that without a full acceptance of Jesus death and resurection as the only way to God, and the evidence of that grace transforming our lives to seek after righteousness that separates us from the world.

I do apologise for the use of the word emotional as it seem to imply just emotions guiding your actions, that was not my intent. My intent was to evade a topic that you have strong convictions about, by pointing out Jesus's broader view of murder.

How do we approach others of differing faith, by preaching Jesus and him crucified, in love.

Paul made converts that day of whom were Dionysius and Damarius, he did not tear down the Idols which offended him, nor started a civic movement to eliminate the Aeropagus, but preached the word in love and the word drew men unto God.

[JUNE]

Re: Spiritual Tolerance and Diversity - One Christian's View

Mi believe dat all these religions false and mi would rather go by di Bible, dats inspired by god fi certification don fi tek smaddy else opinions dat dem mek up ina dem mind to be troo as if dem wiser or dem wisdom is above God's. Di problem is dat alot of ppl dont know the scriptures dat dem read but if yuh really undastand it which mon ago mek law seh evrybody including himself fi love yuh enemy, no fornication,etc. PPl come on yuh kno yuh wouldn't and yuh cant even honestly tink bout smaddy weh woulda do dat.