Three Lost Days

[fOrTyLeGz]

Is losing (only) three days really being dead?

We have all heard that Jesus died for our sins. But really even though he may have really died (gave up the ghost?), he knew that he was going to rise up again (be undead) after only three days, and he didn't stop telling his followers this foreknowledge that he had. Is this really a dying?

Many people feel so sorry for Jesus and the blood that he lost and the suffering that he experienced. And yet so many ordinary people have it so much tougher at the end of their lives than he did. Plus, they don't KNOW that they are going to become undead after three days. And they really die, and don't show up a few days later wondering why none of their friends were waiting to see the miracle unfold that he promised to show them.

[Beluved]

Re: Three Lost Days

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Sarry yoh loose me... are you asking if Jesus really died or are you stating that He should have died a more horrifing death...?? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Virtuos Woman]

Re: Three Lost Days

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but if you are trying to make the argument that just because Jesus knows that He would be raised from the dead in three days that the pain of His death was somewhat less, then I would have to disagree with you.

I'm a tad confused if that is your angle because the fact that He knew He would be raised from the dead have nothing to do with the agony He was then facing. If this was just a walk in the park for Him, then explain to me why prior to His death, praying in the garden of Gethsename preparing for His death, He asked - Lord let this cup pass from, nevertheless not my will, but thy will be done. On the cross when the agony and the pain of death came over Him - He cried out, Father, Father why has thou forsaken me??

As Christians, we believe that when we die a physical death, the body dies but the soul lives on - so to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now knowing that fact doesn't make suffering from a disease like cancer which eventually may kill you any easier to cope with. I've seen people on their death bed just waiting to die to go home to be with the Lord, but the pain is not any less om their last days on earth simply because they are going home to be with the Lord.

I may have taken this entire thing out of context, so perhaps you could shed some light and what exactly you are saying here.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Three Lost Days

I mean that he died on one day. Sure it hurt and he suffered, and was scared. But he knew that he would be gone from living for only three days, and he would have his body back, and go on about his business. Plus, by doing this he was "saving mankind." And he knew that he would just be like sleeping a dreamless sleep for three days.

Didn't many martyrs and just regular people suffer far worse? I guess I am saying that his suffering just doesn't seem so awful to me compared to say St Joan, or the suffering of slaves for a whole life time, or the Jews in concentration camps.

[quodlibet]

Re: Three Lost Days

Question for clarity:

Are you asking if the sure knowledge of resurection increased the capacity to face death?

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by quodlibet:

[qb]Question for clarity:

Are you asking if the sure knowledge of resurection increased the capacity to face death?[/qb]

Yes.

[Jaysan]

Re: Three Lost Days

[quodlibet]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by quodlibet:

[qb]Question for clarity:

Are you asking if the sure knowledge of resurection increased the capacity to face death?[/qb]

Yes.[/qb]

Does the sure knowledge of pregnancy increase the capacity to face the pain of giving birth?

[coffeegyal]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by quodlibet:
[qb]

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by quodlibet:

[qb]Question for clarity:

Are you asking if the sure knowledge of resurection increased the capacity to face death?[/qb]

Yes.[/qb]

Does the sure knowledge of pregnancy increase the capacity to face the pain of giving birth?[/qb]

I think the sure knowledge of the end product (lovely new human being) increases the capacity to face the pain of giving birth.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Three Lost Days

He didn't die die, like the rest of us do. He died KNOWING that he would be back in a few days . Of course his disciples didn't believe him although they saw him raise people from the dead dead, and heal blind folks, and lepers, and make food for multitudes out of food for six.

[Virtuos Woman]

Re: Three Lost Days

I still fail to see the point you are so desperately trying to make here. The fact that He knew He would be raised from the dead in three days has no bearing on the extent of His suffering on the cross while He was still very much alive alive. So your point that He did not die die just doesn't do it for me. He died and He rose 3 days later - and yes He suffered greatly before doing so.

The very same thing will happen to all those who have already died and those of us who will eventually die. We will die and we will rise again someday. So we do not rise again after 3 days, how does that make anyone's suffering from cancer or aids any different from someone else???

[jedi]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]He didn't die die, like the rest of us do.

(Jedi: He died, died like the rest of us will)

He died KNOWING that he would be back in a few days

(Jedi: This is deep. Though he was God he was also man. He had the same fears as mortals. Plus he had never died before, therefore it was a complete trusting in His Father to raise Him again on the third day. The bible account says that He was so afraid and distressed that he sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemanie, but He was so obedient to His Father (may we likewise even know an ounce of such obedience) that He said-"Never the less thy will be done" that is when He "died" (completely surrendered to death)
Ask a man on deathrow how it feels to know that you are going to die for sure on a certain day.)

Of course his disciples didn't believe him although they saw him raise people from the dead dead, and heal blind folks, and lepers, and make food for multitudes out of food for six.[/qb]

So what is your point here? You don't believe Him either even though you have all the written accounts at your disposal after the fact. He had raised Lazarus from the dead but how would He be raised? Remember that in those days God was not speaking to men anymore as in the days of Moses which would have made it even easier to believe, and yet even they didnot believe. How much more so those who had yet to experience such a thing as resurrection of oneself from death. Think about this.

[Diplomat]

Re: Three Lost Days

Excellent points Virtuous Woman and Jedi.

One of the things that makes death for a martyr dying for Christ "easier" to face, is the knowledge and assurance of the ressurection. I think some fundamentalist from another religion happily face death with the promise of 72 virgins waiting for them, but that is another story! One has to bear in mind that while Christ was on earth, he was in human form, and like any other condemned man during those times, facing death by crucifixion was not like facing death by lethal injection. You would really have to study what a crucified person goes through while waiting to die, to have a full understanding of how brutal this form of death was.

The foreknowledge that He would be raised from the dead was something that He know long before He came to earth. It however did not change the agony of what He was to face as recorded during His conversation with the Father on the eve of his crucifixion. Were He still in the grave, God's plan for salvation would have been meaningless. Bear in mind also that the main point behind His death, other than our salvation, was the fact that during those 3 days, it is recorded that He was in hell/hades basically kicking up a stink and putting a butt-kicking on those guys down there. Took Him only three days to do it and once He was through, He came back. I think that was pretty cool [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[jedi]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]Excellent points Virtuous Woman and Jedi.

One of the things that makes death for a martyr dying for Christ "easier" to face, is the knowledge and assurance of the ressurection. I think some fundamentalist from another religion happily face death with the promise of 72 virgins waiting for them, but that is another story! One has to bear in mind that while Christ was on earth, he was in human form, and like any other condemned man during those times, facing death by crucifixion was not like facing death by lethal injection. You would really have to study what a crucified person goes through while waiting to die, to have a full understanding of how brutal this form of death was.

The foreknowledge that He would be raised from the dead was something that He know long before He came to earth. It however did not change the agony of what He was to face as recorded during His conversation with the Father on the eve of his crucifixion. Were He still in the grave, God's plan for salvation would have been meaningless. Bear in mind also that the main point behind His death, other than our salvation, was the fact that during those 3 days, it is recorded that He was in hell/hades basically kicking up a stink and putting a butt-kicking on those guys down there. Took Him only three days to do it and once He was through, He came back. I think that was pretty cool [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [/qb]

Eh-em ......ummmmmm

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by Virtuos Woman:

I still fail to see the point you are so desperately trying to make here. The fact that He knew He would be raised from the dead in three days has no bearing on the extent of His suffering on the cross while He was still very much alive alive. So your point that He did not die die just doesn't do it for me. He died and He rose 3 days later - and yes He suffered greatly before doing so.

I think many suffer much more. I think the fact that he knew (so the Bible tells us) that he wasnt going to be dead very long, IS a big deal. It was his mission to come and die for all of us naughty people (so the Bible tells us). And had he not done so, I assume he would have failed his mission, and that is impossible, because he (Jesus) IS god.

Originally posted by Virtuos Woman:

The very same thing will happen to all those who have already died and those of us who will eventually die. We will die and we will rise again someday.

Really?

Originally posted by Virtuos Woman:

So we do not rise again after 3 days, how does that make anyone's suffering from cancer or aids any different from someone else???

Oh some suffer much more than others at the end of their lives. Maybe you havent noticed yet.