WHY do they teach that ...

[dahjah]

SHEM ,HAM and JAPHETH are the fathers of three different races.
I've never heard so much bull.
And to think as a yute I fell for it.
I brought it up before longtime ago in wan adda poas but nuh baddy neh bite.

Wah mi a seh is:
De tree a dem cum from de same fadda an madda, infact they were triplets, so I don't know where they get this. It mussee cum outta slavery fe fool wi.

One more ting is the curse: Genesis 9:18->27

18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Ok first HAM saw his fathers nakedness and ppl are led to believe that his fathers nakedness is his wife who is his (HAM's) mother.

When yuh read it, it seh dat de faddah was naked and de oddah two breddah covered his nakedness, (so maybe it's the wife, dem maddah)
We are also led to believe that HAM had sex wid de ooman

Any how in verse 24 it says: "And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him."

Now since the three boys were triplets Japheth happens to be the younger son of the three.

Genesis 5:32
And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

This is why they are triplets--> he was 500 years old, you can only be 500 for one year and he begat these three in the same year.

SO is wah all dis mean tuh unno?

[jedi]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Neither have I heard that claim so who teaches this? Enlighten me for I have never heard that in all my years of practicing Chrisitianity.

I know that during slavery days this was a twisting of the word to justify the supremacy of one race over the other but that of course had its purpose. Likewise many tailor the word of God to satisfy their own purposes. We see a lot of that going on even now.

[dahjah]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

I've heard many yt preaches preach this here when mi a yute.
Mi all hear it pan TV. (preacha's)

Have you not heard how HAM is the father of the Black race?
Shem the father of the Jews?

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Originally posted by King dahjah:

20 And Noah ...planted a vineyard:
21... and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 ...And Ham, saw the nakedness of his father...

Ok first HAM saw his fathers nakedness and ppl are led to believe that his fathers nakedness is his wife who is his (HAM's) mother.

When yuh read it, it seh dat de faddah was naked and de oddah two breddah covered his nakedness, (so maybe it's the wife, dem maddah)
We are also led to believe that HAM had sex wid de ooman

SO is wah all dis mean tuh unno?

"Seeing nakedness," must be a euphemism for some other terrible behaviour? This story has never made a bit of sense to me.

[Mutty]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Dahjah, people usually speak of the three men as fathering three distict races of people because of the names of their sons which happen to coincide with ancient regions bearing their names. For example. Cush (Ethiopia), Put (Libya), and Mizraim (Egypt) are all in ancient and modern day borders of Africa hence the idea Ham fathered African peoples.

I cannot rule out the possibility these men were not triplets based on how that particular verse is written but my better reading sense tells me what it is saying is that Noah BEGAN having them during his 500 year and beyond. The order in which they are listed does not necessarily mean their birth order either as we shall see. Genesis 10:21 clearly tells us that Japheth was the "elder" as opposed to being the younger like you said basing your assumption on the way their names are listed in Genesis 5:32.

With that assumption, you erroneously went on to apply that to the account you listed. If Japheth's name is listed last, then you figure he was the youngest so when it mentions Noah awoke and saw what his youngest son did, then you assume it has to have been Japheth when all along the account tells us Ham was the offender and it is his son, Canaan, (NOT Ham himself) who incures the curse. When did the story switch from Ham to Japheth? Just from the fact Canaan is mentioned as being the one the curse fell upon, we know Ham is the one being spoken of because Ham was the father of Canaan (Genesis 10:6)

Will come back with the rest later.

[N.L.L.L. Aimé Olenga]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Originally posted by King dahjah:
[qb]SHEM ,HAM and JAPHETH are the fathers of three different races.
I've never heard so much bull.
And to think as a yute I fell for it.
I brought it up before longtime ago in wan adda poas but nuh baddy neh bite.

Wah mi a seh is:
De tree a dem cum from de same fadda an madda, infact they were triplets, so I don't know where they get this. It mussee cum outta slavery fe fool wi.

One more ting is the curse: Genesis 9:18->27

18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Ok first HAM saw his fathers nakedness and ppl are led to believe that his fathers nakedness is his wife who is his (HAM's) mother.

When yuh read it, it seh dat de faddah was naked and de oddah two breddah covered his nakedness, (so maybe it's the wife, dem maddah)
We are also led to believe that HAM had sex wid de ooman

Any how in verse 24 it says: "And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him."

Now since the three boys were triplets Japheth happens to be the younger son of the three.

Genesis 5:32
And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

This is why they are triplets--> he was 500 years old, you can only be 500 for one year and he begat these three in the same year.

SO is wah all dis mean tuh unno?[/qb]

Hi! King dahjah,

How could I never came across this thread of yours King dahjah? So, maybe adversity melt in hostility that I was afraid... stupid maybe... prejudice... while the thoughts of wisdom are flowing in ones brethren vains? Go man good for you, sign you have started thinkin... Nice way to view it, and believe me this was saved as reserve or a desert after dinner.

And you didn't spoil it at all... brand new... fresh...

But I see the desert was already served before dinner was anyway... lets enjoy the flavor of the desert... a brethren says here seen one nakedness in his tent means sleeping with one ooman. I agree with that indeed seeing one nakedness in his tent means having sex with the man wife. That is correct translation, plain and simple.

Indeed that is blant true, since this book is full of paraboles, doing unto Sarah come to light with the consequenses we all know of, now

20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

We can see here that indeed he was beginning to be an husbandman meaning... he was starting having intercourse with his wife when he planted the wine tree in her wineyard...

The action of planting in the win yard shows you a clear picture of all these trees coming from the ground and sticking from the soil. The same as is a man planted in the wineyard of a ooman.

21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

No man can disagree with this orgasmic painting of orgasm in this paragraph. How could one explain to me a man's orgasm, isn't like getting drunk with the best buzz in the world?

You know when you call the man to come, it is certain he will come and when the man comes... he rally comes unto you... then he is drunk, in another world, even the oomen who enjoy the most than men of the action... it is always men who loose their heads and control over it and can surrender anything for it. Also called the elexir orgasmic extacy of the men... that made them slaves of the oomen...

Maybe I am wrong, many oomen will agree with me that the best time to get things out of men. Is the time he is coming on you... Just bring him close to it and later unto it... there... and when the time comes, confused he is, and can't say a word yet, press him and he will break to your will. Oomen wineyard is a big problem for men hearts and brains, I have come across and never being able to overs that one..., the biggest weapon oomen have over men.

22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

He was too old to satisfy the madah, and she was too horny dat night... so the child was by and she knew about his big thingy down dere... suffering from the bottom of her wineyard, and this man couldn't do the jjob properly.

She couldn't stand it anymore. And she didn't want to go outside and look like a prostitute, as she has three boys and Ham was handy with a lord blessings of his manhood stick... so she got what was close there and which was hers. Where is a crime in heir eyes, it was just to cool down the heat and the starving thirst-need of her wineyard.

As she didn't had nothing to hide, right there in the Noah's tent, she lied the boy... Who reaching the time to come could stay quite, he could have been quite Noah wouldn't be aware of that because it wasn't the first time. As you can see the adah was expecting it.

Screaming of joy of that super coming maybe this time she was winning underneath him, he busted with joy after when making the same promise as the father to take care of the madah pumpum... Unfortunaly Noah caught that moment and wasn't please of all the joy the little Ham give to the madah.

Then he went to tell his brothers of the story with the madah and his promise to the madah-girlfriend... and they went to cover their fadah shame with their support on this time of hard challenge, he has become the rival of his son since the madah hot wineyard isn't anymore satified with his older stick and its poor performance job rate.

Any how in verse 24 it says: "And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him."

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't say a thing while the whole adventure was taking place... he wanted to see how far the boy would enjoy and bash his wineyard right in front of him. Because he was dead tired and like asleep but could see and hear all the rumbling, mumbling, screams of pleasure and pain coming out of this two on fire and joy of the wine of his own wineyard.

By jealousy when he woke up after passing through all the moment his wife had without him but his son. He decided to spare his son from the curse because he was helping him and his mother. But as his jealousy and pain of seeing the ups and downs of his son on his wife... wherever age you are. He decided to curse his son's son, Canaan for the help-sin his son Ham was doing unto his mother-wife.

This will bring you far from the beginning of all time in the bible and visit this same occuring in the Cain story. Cain who killed his Brother for his mother-wife and also killed the father when he become an obstacle in Cain and Eve love-sex relationship.

It is not stranger that some people to this day are practicing incest... many are marrying in their families, cousins marying cousins or nephews and nieces or nieces and cousins, and nephews and cousins. Sisters and brothers, fathers and daughters, sons and mothers... You might see in the horrible picture when even certain grandparents have joined in the show and all of these animosity start from the bible, is it this the words of god?

Isn't it funny?

Good walk.

[dahjah]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Nice work Mutty but mi still believe dem is triplets. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Mutty]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

So from the clues give, we know Japheth was the oldest and Ham was the youngest placing Shem in between.

Like you, I cannot buy the idea Ham slept with his mother. Some take the term "nakedness" beyond the contextual meaning in the account. Why? Well in other parts of the early Old Testament, the term "uncover nakedness" means sleeping with a another person's wife or husband (see Leviticus 20:20), however, we are made VERY aware that the nakedness here refers to Noah's own nakedness because we are told he was in his tent naked. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The idea here is not that Ham may have had sex with his mother or father but that he gazed with satisfication upon his naked father. We are not told how this was determined but from the reaction of Noah, we can tell it was more than just seeing and noticing. There had to have been something more that went on either as judged by some act he committed or some telling antic. The fact that Canaan is singled out indicates he may not have been innocent in the matter either OR the subsequent curse prophetically envisioned a behavior in that particular child that would embody perversions or an ultimate nature which indeed the Canaanites DID become. The bottom line was, as Ham shamed and dishonored his father so Canaan would bring shame and dishonor to Ham's legacy and name.

Dahjah, I know what you want to get at and there is no need to fear on that end. NO, God did not curse black people as some have taught and still believe. Noah curse ONE son of Ham NOT all of Ham's descendants.

With the Japheth thing. I suspect where you want to take that one, but I will leave that alone for now.

[Mutty]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Originally posted by King dahjah:
[qb]Nice work Mutty but mi still believe dem is triplets. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/qb]

Whether or not they were tiplets is irrelevant isn't it Dahjah?

Gotta admit though. You brought up a very good topic. Thanks.

[dahjah]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

In truth I had no intention of taking it to a black level unless smaddy else entered there.

[Mutty]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Originally posted by King dahjah:
[qb]In truth I had no intention of taking it to a black level unless smaddy else entered there.[/qb]

Good. If they did I would not even see the grounds.

[N.L.L.L. Aimé Olenga]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb]
The idea here is not that Ham may have had sex with his mother or father but that he gazed with satisfication upon his naked father. We are not told how this was determined but from the reaction of Noah, we can tell it was more than just seeing and noticing. There had to have been something more that went on either as judged by some act he committed or some telling antic. The fact that Canaan is singled out indicates he may not have been innocent in the matter either OR the subsequent curse prophetically envisioned a behavior in that particular child that would embody perversions or an ultimate nature which indeed the Canaanites DID become. The bottom line was, as Ham shamed and dishonored his father so Canaan would bring shame and dishonor to Ham's legacy and name.

Dahjah, I know what you want to get at and there is no need to fear on that end. NO, God did not curse black people as some have taught and still believe. Noah curse ONE son of Ham NOT all of Ham's descendants.

With the Japheth thing. I suspect where you want to take that one, but I will leave that alone for now.[/qb]

Interesting thematic Mutty - The return;

Could you have any reasom to why, Ham has four children and Noah picked upon the last born to be cursed for the sin of his father and Noah's own son?

It is possible you could deny the essence of the action done by Noah... proves to many that Cannaan was actually the incestious son born from Noah's wife and mother of his son Ham?

Which could explain why that grandson and stepson was bringing shame to Noah's legacy ... what could this grandson of Noah could have done so bad that he served to be cursed for his father doing or conflict with his grandfather?

Logic requires those who involve with this analysis to follow that logic even though they fear the discovery looked for. King has started something that helps to visit the site of a crime with new information, as detectives we have not interest to destroy the scene of a crime but preserving it.

As in this case we need to preserve the idea of those passages given by King dahjah they are at the origin of this investigation.

Good walk...

[Fledgist]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Because the authors of the Bible were a bunch of racists. That's simple.

[Mutty]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]Because the authors of the Bible were a bunch of racists. That's simple.[/qb]

Thank you for your clear, pointed insights.

Nobodady was asking about any biblical writers. The author of the thread made it very clear he was referring to "yt" interpreters and teachers of the Bible.

[dahjah]

Re: WHY do they teach that ...

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]Because the authors of the Bible were a bunch of racists. That's simple.[/qb]

Is how dis cum een ya fledge?
mi knaw seh yuh wrong doe but...