Can you be Christian AND...

[atticus]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

WitcheyOoman:
No, the field instead of the fork was not my original idea. Wish it were. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] When I was in high school, our Presbytery ran a church camp outside of town called Covenant Mountain. Each spring they had a "work camp" where senior highs went for a week and did the manual labor to get the camp in shape. The "counselors" or task masters, generally were the ministers who tended to the high school youth groups and tended to be younger themselves. Having had a philosophically inquisitive mind from a early age, I would sneak out after lights out and join them for hours of such discussions about life and religion. I was in heaven. It was one of those young ministers that proposed the idea and I have carried it with me ever since. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ForTylegz:
You are very right about the damning thing. Having lived all my life in the Bible Belt, I am covered up with people who are adamnet that if you don't believe like them, aren't racist, commie hating, homophobic and a card carrying Republican, then you are fated to hell as a worthless, liberal, homosexual, communist, pinko.
So I feel your comment there. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[accepted77]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Originally posted by WitchyOoman:
[qb]
Yes, SUnmist, I do devoutly believe (my [Anglican] Church teaches me so) that the pure of spirit will indeed spend eternity with God/in God's presence (or, "in heaven"), no matter what their religious "sect" practices were in Life... All that matters is their goodness (or not!). It's only the non-eucharistic-centered Christians who say otherwise, and the farther they are from being eucharist-centered, the louder they usually scream about the "One [Only] True Path".

[/qb]

Witchey Ooman

Of late I have taken to not commenting on your posts as you do tend to take dissagreement as a personal attack, which is not my intent.

But this comment goes way off the scale. Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. Its his standards to which we hold true, if you are not in christ, calling oneself christian is a misnomer, he said I am the way the truth and the life no man commeth to the father but by me, and elswhere it is said of him niether is there salvation in any other name but in the name of Jesus.

Now some except there may be other truths, but Jesus says he is the truth, as a christian you are faced with the path of who do you believe.

Is there only one way? Only one truth? Only one source of life?

Or is it just a matter of interpretation and you can believe what you want to believe.

Is Jesus the truth or is he a liar?

A rasta can be anything he wants to be.

But a christian must not be a hearer of the word only he must be a defender of the word and a believer of the author of our faith, we are not called to be conformers, we are called to be separate.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto Salvation.

It is not my attempt to condemn anyone but to call a spade a spade, But like the prophet of God said to the preists of Baal, "If Haile Sallasie be God serve him but if Jesus Christ be God serve him you cannot serve God and Haile Sallasie".

Haile Sallasie may accept it but the Mighty God in Christ, the Christian God will not.

[NYer]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Is Jesus the truth or is he a liar?

...or were his words messed with at some point in the last couple thousand years by those who had a political/economic stake in Christianity being the ONLY way?

Just pointing out there are more possible answers than A and B.

[accepted77]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Nyer

Thats just the point its who do you believe when it all comes down to it.

From Genesis the Bible pronounces a One God doctrine, Alpha and Omega, in Revelation the testimony remains the same. The kingdoms of this world is now become the kingdom of our Lord.

There has never been another God that is recognised in scripture worthy of honour praise and worship.

Satan or Devil or Dragon or Devourer is a rogue angel who is never the equal of God but who have enticed man to worship him and his minions and throughout history these have gone by a multitude of Names. Man's fertile imagination is a rebellious playfeild for the creation of these deities. They come and go in popularity with the times.

Who today worship Baal?

He was a popular idol in the life and times of the Isrealites.

But we still worship the Great "I am" his name Is still "YHVH" take your choice Jehoavah or Yahweh and his salvation is given by his only begotten Son the incarnate God in human flesh Jesus Christ. Not another deity but this same God indwelling as man. The Messiah Jesus Christ.

God has always been One this One displayed to us in Human form Jesus Christ. Who says I am in my Father and my Father in me.

[jaith]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

It seems that one CAN be rasta and Christian just as one can be any form of christian and Christian...also...any rasta or christian may NOT be Christian. It all depends in what or who one places their faith.

I've known people who considered themselves Christian all their lives to find out that they were, in truth, christians.

True Christianity is NOT a religion.

[NYer]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

There has never been another God that is recognised in scripture worthy of honour praise and worship.

There hasn't?

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Originally posted by accepted:

There has never been another God that is recognised in scripture worthy of honour praise and worship.

accepted, why would a god want praise and worship? Now and then an individual will come along and people will praise or even worship that person, and yet the majority of the people will always know that this is just cult madness. So then, no (normal) beings like being worshiped and praised... except the Christian god.

No normal parent want their grown children to worship them, or even praise them really. And yet this god is for some reason "worthy" of this worship business? And he wants it? Isn't this more like anthropomorphism? "When the god gets angry then bad things happen to us, so let's give him some blood now," kind of thinking?

[atticus]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

This is a great discussion. I appreciate everyone's input. I look forward to each new post. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

How are the ways that Rasta and Christianity "dovetail" or compliment each other? I have been doing the Protestant Christian thing all my life. I know a little more than alot of non-Rastas about the Rastafarian faith, eg. not a lot.
Anyone have really good resource points for the Rasta faith? I just know that Christianity (as I know it) and Rasta are blood brothers or at least kissing cousins! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Sunmist22]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Nyer, Accepted and Jaith, I think we are all in sinc. Atticus, I am glad that you are previe to so many perspectives, gives you much to think about, marinade on. Me too for that matter.

No matter the prophet, or who heard what - see The angel Gabriel spoke to Muhammad, GOD spoke to Moses, Jesus to James, Peter and John.

Man wrote it all down so it is subject to scrutiny.

I think we all know that what is logically good in the Book of Life, makes sense to live. Interpretation of the book is and will always be controversial, however it seems what holds the most credence by way of what the masses hold true, has everything to do with day to day living.

Someone posted in an earlier dialog that the Rasta man came forward with two strong traits. And it is true. Anyone who does study the Rastfarian and the Christian's basic philosophy will find many similarities, however they will also find one MAJOR discrepancy.

The Rasta lives his faith daily, 24/7, the Christian sporatically. If the Christian lives his faith daily, 24/7, unfortunately, he is considered to be a fanatic by some. A lot of Christians, live their faith on Sundays, Wednesday night at bible study, and at summer revival time.

Strange.....

Sunmist

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Originally posted by accepted:
[qb]

Originally posted by WitchyOoman:
[qb]
Yes, SUnmist, I do devoutly believe (my [Anglican] Church teaches me so) that the pure of spirit will indeed spend eternity with God/in God's presence (or, "in heaven"), no matter what their religious "sect" practices were in Life... All that matters is their goodness (or not!). It's only the non-eucharistic-centered Christians who say otherwise, and the farther they are from being eucharist-centered, the louder they usually scream about the "One [Only] True Path".

[/qb]

Witchey Ooman

Of late I have taken to not commenting on your posts as you do tend to take dissagreement as a personal attack, which is not my intent.

But this comment goes way off the scale. [/qb]

(1) I'm not taking your comments as a personal attack, since they aren't even necessarily my own beliefs, but those of other denominations [of Christianity] besides mine.

Whether you choose to beleive it or not, they are, as I stated, the beliefs of millions of Christians (the denominations I mentioned).

Whether or not you choose to agree with those beliefs in no way bears on the fact that other Christians do in fact so believe.

Don't believe ME? ... Then go and seek out any Orthodox Christian clergy and ask... and you'll get the same answer as I posted. That is their [Church's] Canon. Still having trouble believing it? ... Then seek out a few more Orthodox priests, and ask them, too... You'll get the same answers... Okay, NOW try asking some Anglican priests... Darned if you STILL don't get the same answers! Try some Roman priests... and you still get the same response. You'll continually get the same information that I presented, until you get farther away from the eucharist-centered Churches (denominations). You will find that I am telling the truth: the further from Eucharist-centered Christianity you go, the more you will find the belief to fall in line with your own belief.

So... how is my imparting that information "way off the scale"??? Whose "scale", for that matter?!! (Your particular "flavor" of Christianity is hardly the only one out there!)

/

But a christian must not be a hearer of the word only he must be a defender of the word and ...

Er... a Christian must be a hearer of ALL of The Word, not just the certain select potrions s/he chooses to hear.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto Salvation.

Nor am I...

It is not my attempt to condemn anyone but to call a spade a spade, But ...

Indeed... Let's [call a spade a spade]... ALL of the earlier/est Churches (denominations) believe one way, and the later ones differently... Perhaps the PROTESTant Churches made the changes... and rationalized them... ?????????????

By the way, I am not "attacking" you personally, nor anyone personally.
I strongly defend your right to believe as you choose; I just won't stand by and allow you to tramp all over anyone else's (including my own). You have no more right to call me (or any Orthodox, Roman, Anglican, or other [Catholic] "unCHristian") than anyone does to call YOU "unChristian"!

[accepted77]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Witchey Ooman,

We don't usually agree on much, but I do hope we can agree on this.

It matters not what Catholic or Anglican or Pentecostal or any other name brand of denomination thinks.

What matters is what the Word of God says.

You cannot be leaven and unleaven, bond woman and free woman, son and bondservant, a fountain does not spew forth bitter water with sweet, doth men gather grapes from thistle, a good tree cannot bring forth corrupt fruit, the analogies go on and on. You cannot bring homosexuality into the house of God and expect blessings.

Now because one sect of clergy says it is true does that make it true for God?
Whose standards are we seeking here Sect or Word?

One cannot worship Haile Sallasie as God and still worship YHVH as God.
Worship unexceptable to YHVH.
He is a jealous God and will only share his Glory with Jesus Christ and his Church.

Last time I checked the Noble Bereans were checking the Apostles in scripture to see if what they said was truth. And the mixing of truth and divination by Baalam was condemned likewise, in scripture.

Now I have heard comments that christians chase away non-christians by being hardline, let everyone come in and is up to them what they want to believe, if some want to believe Hindi, its OK. If some want to believe Rasta its OK. We can all call them christian as long as they are trying.

Before the flood, everyman did what was Good in his own eyes, it didn't please God then, will it please him now?

The wide road does not lead to God, never has, never will.

Narrow is the road that leads to salvaion and few are those that seek it.

[NYer]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

I've been reading a book on Rastafari and it seems some Rastas believe Selassie is king/Lord and some do not.

In fact Rastafariansim doesn't seeem to have hte same orthodoxy that Christianity has.

I'm only 1/4 of the way through the book tho.

[NYer]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

The wide road does not lead to God, never has, never will.

Can you share the bible verse that tells you that?

[jaith]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Is it a possibility that all those who think they have found it really haven't???

[NYer]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

THanks you jaith, interesting. The Bible Gateway offers this commentary:

The Narrow Way (7:13-14)
Within this chapter, verses 1-12 fit together somewhat loosely, but the paragraphs in verses 13-27 make more sense together. Most first-century Jewish people believed they were saved by virtue of descent from Abraham (3:9). Yet Jesus regards the assumption of salvation as a deception; most of his contemporaries were unsaved (7:13-14). Those who led them showed by their lives that they were not God's true representatives (vv. 15-20); indeed, many professing servants of Jesus will themselves be banished from God's presence in the judgment (vv. 21-23), for only those who truly obeyed his teaching will stand (vv. 24-27). When one compares the great numbers of people today who cavalierly identify themselves as Christians yet never consider the claims of Christ, one shudders to realize how deadly such deception remains. May we present Christ's radical claims boldly so that more professing Christians may reckon with the reality of his lordship.

Jesus' image of the narrow way should have made sense to his hearers (v. 13). Greek, Roman and Jewish writers often employed the image of the two paths in life (for example, Sen. Ep. 8.3; 27.4; Diogenes Ep. 30; Deut 30:15; Ps 1:1; m. 'Abot 2:9), and those particularly concerned with the future judgment especially employed the image of the two ways, the narrow one leading to life and the broad one to destruction (as in 4 Ezra 7:3-16, 60-61; 8:1-3; Test. Ab. 11A; 8B).

Some people's assurance of salvation is a delusion (Mt 7:13-14). To enter the narrow gate of the kingdom we must knock, that is, request that God make us citizens of his kingdom (vv. 7-8). The difficulty of Jesus' way includes embracing by repentance both persecution (5:10-12) and the ethics of the kingdom taught in the Sermon on the Mount.

Most Jewish people in Jesus' day were religious; respecting God and keeping his commandments were an important part of their culture. These would be the many people of whom Jesus' hearers would think when they heard him. Yet Jesus, like a few contemporaries who were particularly scrupulous (4 Ezra 7:45-61; 8:1-3), declared that most people were lost. Jesus intends his words to jar us from complacency, to consider the genuineness of our commitment to him.

One wonders how many members in our churches today assume that they are saved when in fact they treat Jesus' teachings lightly-people who give no thought to their temper, their mental chastity, their integrity and so forth during the week (compare 5:21-48), then pretend to be religious or even spiritually gifted in church. Do we have the courage to communicate Jesus' message as clearly as he meant it to be conveyed, to warn ourselves and others that it is possible for people to assume they are saved and yet be damned? Some texts in the Bible provide assurance to suffering Christians that the kingdom is theirs; this text challenges "cultural Christians," those following only Christian tradition rather than Christ himself, to realize that they need conversion.

Interesting....