Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

[yozey]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Jedi here is some startling news. The one thing that the every HIV test claims (from rapid assays through EIA through Western Blot) is that no test is a definitive diagnosis of HIV infection or of AIDS status. That is a warning on all HIV tests. There is also the fact that antibodies (what we test for) do not appear immediately after infection. So even if the donor picked it up just prior to donating blood no amount of testing would have ruled him positive. So the argument about lack of testing cannot hold water and no self respecting professional would agree that vigilant testing will make any blood supply 100% safe.

As for this boy being used as a vessel of God to help others like us, if that is your personal conviction then more power to you. I just wanted to know what you thought about it.

[evanovitch]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

hey i refer to pilot when i want a well thought out response to a question...if that makes me a part of his cheering section i will state it here and now....i was lucky to get a good education in jamaica and noone will ever make me ashamed to stick with the educated...me neva one fi shame a anyting good...... big up pilot...strive ahead wid u lucid thoughts and writing..u grammar good too...

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

It's man's fault for,more than likely, manufacturing the disease in the first place,nuh????

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb] If the family of this little boy were to ask you why this has happened to their son what would you tell them ?

[/qb]

It wouldn't hurt to provide your answer.

[yozey]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

The boy is an unfortunate vitctim of the realities of life. Killer bugs exist, people catch them and the best way to tackle it is not to point fingers whether is God, the MOH, KPH, Blood Bank, or anybody elses fault these things do happen and in his case as a hemophiliac the chances are greater. Let us not forget that the first 2 cohort studies about AIDS was done on homosexuals and hemophiliacs.

What we need to do is to make this situation as comfortable as possible for him as he is living with a terrible reality.

[jedi]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb] Jedi, I am going to confine myself to the theological issues you raised as that is the purpose of this thread, not to dissect the Jamaican healthcare system (or, as Pilot said, to "denigrate" his family).

"Is it God's plan that this child's life would be the SENTINEL EVENT that would draw the world's attention to Jamaica's shoddy healthcare system? It is a crime that Aids have been around now for over 20years and this should happen to anyone in this day and age. Now you tell me if it wasn't this life what else the Ministry of Healthcare's conscience? I doubt it. If caution is taken from now on will many more innocent lives be saved? I would say quite likely. Does that make God wicked? C'mon now who is wicked God or the Jamaican Gov't that does not give a hoot about the common citizen? Answer me now Mr. R.C."

Jedi, are you seriously telling me, that an all powerful, all knowing, and loving God, would have to use something as tragic as the slow, painful death of a young child, to make a point such as this ?

Jedi: Here we go with the blame it on God for everything mentality. This argument cannot be separated from the deplorable condition of the Jamaican healthcare system, simply because having given them everything possible to make a better system, (which the people have been robbed of by reckless spending and crookery) God then sheds the light on this system before the whole world, by calling attention to inhumane treatment people have to suffer in Jamaica when they become ill. In the absence of God would the story be different. Does God take pleasure in this? I think not, but God did not cause this child to die did he, but this childs story will hopefully save many lives and the deplorable management of healthcare will have to change.

The only sane response to this outrageous suggestion is one word:

Why ? See above. [/qb]

R.C. you obviously believe that God is only supposed to be a sweet benevolent father that fixes human beings mistakes while ignoring the root causes of these outrageous crimes against innocent people. The root cause of the problem is not God, it is man, currupt and stink, that misuses the resources of the people to fatten their greedy bank accounts and live high and mighty while the poor suffer. Who provided these resources in the first place? Who created this world with all it's rich resources and placed man in it? A life is lost, it is a shame but thank God it has been brought to the light for the world to see. Instead of blaming God, get on the bandwagon and write letters to the Minister of Health condemning this deplorable and outrageous occurence.

[PILOT]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Thanx for the cheer up Yaah evonovitch, thats what friends and family are for...

Some of my friends in this forum in particular feel I am unreasonable because much of the facts that would enable me to draw absolute conclusions about the questions that they ask are unavailable to me and the families and parties involved are already wounded. I prefer to just allow them a chance to heal.

My faith will not allow me to dwell on presenting probable causes for a specific case where all the facts may not be available.

How many of us know the concrete accuracies surrounding HIV or every virus for that matter.

In reference to the doubtful one who said "One raised the idea that aids is the result of sin and now he backs down when he cant handle a medical error that thrashes his argument".

Doubtful Thomas what I oulined in the previous post was that even in a case where AIDS is said to be caused by sexual intercourse and their are ways to prevent it from being transmitted through sexual contact, persons are still rebellious to thwart the life saving laws by barebacking, and as a testimony to my faith I can see where some folks would treat and are treating sinfulness in such manner and are being paid the wages of death.

Just like how some are given warnings about how to prevent themselves from contracting a terminal illness and still make the obvious mistake which doctors, lawyers, pastor, councillor have warn them against.

I say the burden of responsibility remains with man who contracts the HIV virus while partaking in unbridled sexual intercourse which stands against Gods laws on sexual purity.

Now that is a whole different case from the one above.

Its funny also cause I hear that I being dishonest, you ask me a question I given you a statement based on my own conscience within the sight of God yet you still believe that I some how not behaving in good faith.

Dangerous for true, maybe next time I should just leave you alone when you bellow.

and then one ask you a question or two and we cya get an answer...

Is like the bible say some people don't want to live in peace and we don't have no control over them, let them do their thing, the wheat and the tears have to grow together until harvest.

Again, i don't want to be aparty to the spiritual speculation on the specific case of boy and woman. thank you!

[jedi]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Originally posted by Simple Man:
[qb] Jedi here is some startling news. The one thing that the every HIV test claims (from rapid assays through EIA through Western Blot) is that no test is a definitive diagnosis of HIV infection or of AIDS status. That is a warning on all HIV tests. There is also the fact that antibodies (what we test for) do not appear immediately after infection. So even if the donor picked it up just prior to donating blood no amount of testing would have ruled him positive. So the argument about lack of testing cannot hold water and no self respecting professional would agree that vigilant testing will make any blood supply 100% safe.

As for this boy being used as a vessel of God to help others like us, if that is your personal conviction then more power to you. I just wanted to know what you thought about it. [/qb]

Well for your information since the institution of testing for the HIV virus there has been a dramatic reduction in the number of HIV deaths related to blood transfusions. And although no test is 100% fool proof there is still absolutely no excuse for not testing every dononation of blood. Further more I stand on what I believe, that God is very much watching mankind's affairs and He is a God of the poor and needy. The Jamaican healthcare system is indefensible and has no reason to be so poor.

[yozey]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb] And although no test is 100% fool proof there is still absolutely no excuse for not testing every dononation of blood. [/qb]

And you know that the "allegedly" contaminated blood received by the boy was not tested?

[jedi]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Originally posted by Simple Man:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb] And although no test is 100% fool proof there is still absolutely no excuse for not testing every dononation of blood. [/qb]

And you know that the "allegedly" contaminated blood received by the boy was not tested? [/qb]

Go back and read the article. Did the government not take liability for this occurence and offer to pay for the delivery of care and medicines both to the child and the woman which they have only partially done?

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Originally posted by Simple Man:
[qb] The boy is an unfortunate vitctim of the realities of life. Killer bugs exist, people catch them and the best way to tackle it is not to point fingers whether is God, the MOH, KPH, Blood Bank, or anybody elses fault these things do happen and in his case as a hemophiliac the chances are greater. Let us not forget that the first 2 cohort studies about AIDS was done on homosexuals and hemophiliacs.

What we need to do is to make this situation as comfortable as possible for him as he is living with a terrible reality. [/qb]

Although,RollinCalf's question was probably not directed towards you,I'm sure that he will agree that the young boy and mother would have been relieved,thus more willing to accept what you've stated here.

[yozey]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Jedi are you serious? The Government did not accept liability for the issue. Think about this legally now. The article says that the parents of Michael received a letter stating that the boy did in fact get infected through the healthcare system. This claim and the contents of the letter was later refuted by Dr. Figrueroa and he said it is not an admission of guilt but a letter to facilitate the proper care of the boy. After all Jamaica's healthcare system is still part of a social contract. If this letter was an admission of guilt, wouldn't Miss Haughton have all weapons she needs to stick it to Government in court?

The Government did not accept liability and they did publish that results of blood donors at the time the boy "allegedly" contracted the disease were all negative indicating that the blood was infact tested.

[jedi]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Originally posted by Simple Man:
[qb] Jedi are you serious? The Government did not accept liability for the issue. Think about this legally now. The article says that the parents of Michael received a letter stating that the boy did in fact get infected through the healthcare system. This claim and the contents of the letter was later refuted by Dr. Figrueroa and he said it is not an admission of guilt but a letter to facilitate the proper care of the boy. After all Jamaica's healthcare system is still part of a social contract. If this letter was an admission of guilt, wouldn't Miss Haughton have all weapons she needs to stick it to Government in court?

The Government did not accept liability and they did publish that results of blood donors at the time the boy "allegedly" contracted the disease were all negative indicating that the blood was infact tested. [/qb]

She does have all the ammo she needs the LETTER, the written word cannot be retracted. Regardless of what Mr. Figueroa later said. Furthermore I would not put it past them to come up with false evidence to support their case. Regardless it is their responsibility to provide better health care to the people. BTW- have you seen some of these hospitals? Particularly in the rural areas of the country.

[britisha]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

Originally posted by Simple Man:
The one thing that the every HIV test claims (from rapid assays through EIA through Western Blot) is that no test is a definitive diagnosis of HIV infection or of AIDS status. That is a warning on all HIV tests. There is also the fact that antibodies (what we test for) do not appear immediately after infection. So even if the donor picked it up just prior to donating blood no amount of testing would have ruled him positive. So the argument about lack of testing cannot hold water and no self respecting professional would agree that vigilant testing will make any blood supply 100% safe.

Excellent points. This is why they recommend autologous blood as the best over nondesignated donated blood in cases of surgery. The autologous blood is still tested however, the fact still being, if you need blood you will be getting your own.

The question Simpleman is were these units tested prior to giving them to these patients.

[yozey]

Re: Question for Pilot and His Cheering Section

From article
Dr. Peter Figueroa, Chief of Epidemiology and AIDS, has said that the Ministry's defence is based on the negative results from tests carried out on blood donors from that period. The Attorney-General, representing the Ministry, also filed a defence in court. But this did not matter to Michael, the name by which the boy is referred.

This should answer your question britisha.
Also autologous blood transfusions cannot be considered an option for a hemophiliac. He already has a bleeding disorder and drawing blood from him for future use is a dangerous option.