Can you be Christian AND...

[Kishi]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Your story describes one probalem I have always had with the general Christian population...closed minded to the fact that everybody has a different mind and that thinking different isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] YES! TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH!

I know many people that are Hindu and Muslim, but it depends on their father for which faith they practice. If the father is Muslim, and his wife is Hindu, then the grandchildren will be Muslim.

I think this is a really great way of children opening up their eyes to the different ideas and thoughts of people around the world. It isn't necessary to always practice the same thing as the majority, be yourself!

[Sunmist22]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Greetings to you WitcheyOoman,

First let me apologize if I have upset you in any manner, it was never my intention. I find this dialog very stimulating. It is always good to exercise your brain in the company of people with convictions, determination and strength of heart.

I did not put words in your mouth (at least that was not my thought), I AGREED with you - if one is TECHNICAL about "religion", the "rules and regs", then you cannot be both a Rasta and a Christian, however most every human being breaks some rules in their walk through this life. And there is a lot to be said for "break it" thinking.

Let me answer your previous questions, please remember though, these are JUST my thoughts/opinions and I absolutely do not mean to vex your spirit.

1. The relevance of Jewish men and Rasta men and how they are with their woman. With my DEALINGS with both of these cultures, I have witnessed a deep and abiding love for their daughters, mothers, etc. Respect of the highest form. I can not generalize and say ALL of anyone, however I have not witnessed in my walk, classifications made by Rasta men or Jewish men that their female counters are "Ho's, Skeezers(sp), tramps, sluts, etc. From the individuals of these two cultures, that I encountered, I have always recieved the utmost respect. And they provided AS WELL a keen sense of safety.

2. Catholic restrictions, the biggest issue I have personally is with the restrictions put on MAN by MAN. It is not natural for a MAN to take a vow of chasity. Not in the manner of a vow, if it happens it happens. Yes lots of people are celibate(sp), for any number of reasons, however I feel the pressure of the restrictions within this religion are unnatural. A man is just a man. And then when things happen because of this imposed chasity, it is not considered a crime, however a mistake??? I just don't get it?

Our bible says none of us are without sin, true enough. I agree with you regarding "rituals", and I hope I don't offend you by agreeing. We must live a good life and there are a number of rituals that keep us on the right track, be it fellowship, a groundation, revival, yoga, a chapter a day or simply chanting.

I have a very dear friend who is Catholic, she goes to Mass faithfully every Saturday at 4:00 p.m. I respect her devotion and KNOW she will see GOD in heaven, or glory or paradise.

You mentioned in your last correspondence, something I will not try to write back verbadim, however it went something like this. God will accept many regardless of their "sect" if they are pure in spirit. (I hope I got that right). I believe that with all my heart - whether you are a Bahbah, or whether your othodox, we're all going to sing the same song...

I am long winded,

Blessed WitcheyOoman, much thanks for your assistance in helping me understand.. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Sunmist

[Sunmist22]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

I got it Witchey, the Anglican Faith, I like what you said about that and God's acceptance... That would mean that "people" or "man" would not tell another "man", you will not get to heaven if you don't pray five times a day, or know that Christ died for your sins, etc.

Also, I know of Jews who believe Christ died on the cross for our salvation. One jewish woman had a medalion made which is the star of David in a circle with a cross in the center. I thought it was the most wonderful thing..

This world is Big Witchy, there are no limitations only your own.

Peace and blessings be with you always..

Sun

[rasjew]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

I am Rasta and Jewish.

[Sunmist22]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Yes RasJew!!! You are a blessed one. Give Thanks and Praise, Jah don't run no wire fence yiahhh.

I keep the star of David close to my heart..

Thanks for letting me know.. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Peace

Sunmist..

[Sunmist22]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Atticus,

I was raised in a Baptist Church, same issues, did not understand why we would tyde(sp)to the church and not to the world. We we prayed continually for the congregation and not for the world.

My soul needed to extend something to the world, and not the confines of a building on Sundays..

I was touched by the Rasta long long time ago. The validating factors, it is everyday of our life, not sometimes, not partial.

Black Heart Man, is the wonder of the city..

Sun

[atticus]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Sunmist,
You seem to strike a chord with each post. Yes! The need to extend ourself to the world and outside the sanctuary. Your upbringing explains alot of why you can hit the point. Growing up, I was the oddball for not being Baptist and all mi friends were. Just never been a Holy Roller or for Hellfire and Damnation. I grew up in a very small Presbyterian church and had a very enlightening experience with a group of young ministers who saw things in a different way.
Example: maybe we do not come to a fork in the road so much as to a field where we choose our own paths. I thought that was cool.

Anyway, thanks again. Peace

[Sunmist22]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Thanks Atticus,

Being an oddball has wonderful advantages if you are secure in yourself and your personal worth to YOURSELF. I think that is why I smile at the sheep that follow sheppards, I follow what my gut instincts tells me is right - because life is short and I want every second to count.

I like the explanation the ministers provided you with. Bunny Wailer sang in Black Heart Man "Wisdom is found in the simplest places, in the nick of time".. And I have found this to be true.

Whatever path of faith you decide to take will be good and correct for YOU. It is important that it feels comfortable and familiar, like old time but new at the same time.

I love the simply lessons. One of the best I have learned is, YOUR HEART NEVER EVER LIES TO YOU, IT CAN NOT. Or, you can not lie to yourself, what a wonder. You can lie to others, they can lie to you, you can ATTEMPT to tell yourself something is one way and your HEART will stay fast that it is the other.

Whatever it is that you are discovering now, by way of your spirital faith and what feels right to you must be good. Refreshing - seen?

I feel your spirit and I hear George Harrison singing, "Here comes the Sun" and it's alright**.

Peace

Sun

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Atticus, you say:

I think there is a reason that Jesus did not manfest his wonders and teachings within the confines of the institutional churches or synagogues of his day. In fact, as I recall, there are Biblical references against the institutionalization of faith in the Living God. We now have ministers, priests and rabbis that fall directly into Jesus' statement that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.

I'll agree with the above sentiments. I also feel it important to point out that this isn't necessarily true of ALL organized religion, ALL institutions, or ALL various clergypersons. I hate to see people (not necessarily YOU) "throw out the baby with the bath water".

As to this:

The Rasta really seems to hit home with my thoughts and feelings set out above. They live their faith everyday with everyone they meet and do not rely on a weekly church visit to maintain their faith. The concept of "One Love", while found in the New Testament (in so many words) is not practiced or adhered too by todays major denominations. That concept and the practice of it I found in Jamdung is what initially endeared Ratsa to my heart and began my quest to reconcile my existing faith with this new wonderful one.
And Peace to you, WitcheyOoman

I think that it's just as important for weekly ritualistic worship/fellowship as it is to practice the "love one another" commandment; BOTH are as important to one who wishes to live according to God's wishes. I don't mean to take anything away from Rastafarians... I just think it's necessary for weekly corporate worship also (not necessarily in a church or synagogue).

Okay... Sunmist:
I hear you. I agree with most of what you're saying.

I see/hear shades of covert... overly broad and sweeping characterizations in this paragraph about Jewish men and Rasta men... and, truthfully, if I heard your words from some other people's mouths, I'd cry "racist", but I DON'T THINK that you mean it that way. It's difficult to say this in print on a webpage... but, I'll try. Whenever I see or hear a person make claims about "all ___" (fill in the blank with ANY racial, religious, ethnic, gender, or gender-orientation group of humans), it raises red flags in my mind. There IS NO "ALL of" statement that is true of ALL of ANY group!!
Anyway, that said, I don't think you menat anything prejudiced about it.

As to what you term "Catholic restrictions"... well, you aren't the first to make this mistake, and I've said it here many times... and I suspect that I'll be saying it here many more times.
There are many different Catholics; the Roman Church is BUT ONE of them!!! I am Anglican, Anglo-Catholic. OUR priests (and WE ordain women in OUR Church!) do not have to remain celibate; they are quite often married, usually with children, as well. All of the Orthodox Catholic Churches also have married priests (who have families too). ONLY the Roman Church prefers (yes, I said 'prefers', as there are indeed some married Roman Catholic priests!) celibate priests. I think the very notion of enforced celibacy utterly ridiculous -- as well a extremely dangerous! (Ex: What sort of spiritual counsellor is a frustrated, unhappy man?!)

Yes, SUnmist, I do devoutly believe (my [Anglican] Church teaches me so) that the pure of spirit will indeed spend eternity with God/in God's presence (or, "in heaven"), no matter what their religious "sect" practices were in Life... All that matters is their goodness (or not!). It's only the non-eucharistic-centered Christians who say otherwise, and the farther they are from being eucharist-centered, the louder they usually scream about the "One [Only] True Path".

Yes, rituals -- even those so simple as, say chanting, or meditating -- do indeed help to give a certain necessary rhythm to one's life... that is why Jesus taught us to abide by certain rituals (IMHO). I think he knew that.

Don't worry about being "long-winded"... *I* am the "Queen of Long-Windedness" on the J'com Boards. Just ask ANYone whose been here longer than 18 months or so... Sunmist, yuh cyaan outwind ME, no matter HOW HARD yuh try!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

You make me laugh with this:

I got it Witchey, the Anglican Faith, I like what you said about that and God's acceptance... That would mean that "people" or "man" would not tell another "man", you will not get to heaven if you don't pray five times a day, or know that Christ died for your sins, etc.

Yes, you "got" what I was trying to point out! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Remember this: ONLY God will ultimately decide on your eternal Fate!!

RaSJeW, fi' real?! How yuh calculate your Jewishness? (Ie: Do you fit the criteria as set down by Jewish Law?)

I've never met a Jewish Rastaman before... how interesting! Were you raised Jewish (regular attendance in a synagogue)? Where? I've been all over the island of Jamaica (the only area I haven't been thru at any length is the Port Antonio area), but haven't yet come across any synagogues, although I've heard that there are a few... just never got to any of them, yet.

Hey, atticus, is this ("Maybe we do not come to a fork in the road so much as to a field where we choose our own paths.") yours? Or someone else's? Whose? I LIKE it!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

This has been a heartwarming discussion! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Originally posted by atticus:

Your story describes one probalem I have always had with the general Christian population...closed minded to the fact that everybody has a different mind,and that thinking different isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Funny isn't it? It's like if you are a believer, then you have a weapon to make other people wrong, bad, ignorant, AND damned. Usually, being a true believer doesn't add to ones capacity for loving, but for damning.

Originally posted by Fledgist:

I was there as a reporter in the press section.

¡Muy intersanté!

[rasjew]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

I think it's beautifuly how carefree and open the Rasta are to different people, maybe it's in the ganja because normally human kind is very evil.

[Sunmist22]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Witchey!!! Thanks for coming back and responding to me. I must proclaim my ignorance of the Catholic faith, so your high level overview is a good first start for me.

I am of a nature, when intrigued, will devour any and all information on a topic or group of related topics, (know what I mean)?

Most assuredly, I did not mean ALL of any folks, I did mention I don't like to generalize because I don't know ALL of any folks. However of ALL the folks I have MET personally of certain faiths, this is what I have witnessed, etc...

Making generalized statements about people or groups of people is wrong and goes against everything I believe in for one reason, there is good and evil found everywhere one travels.

This has been a GOOD forum, and I appreciate everyone reading my thoughts. I am new here and have been reading, not sure what topics really exercised my mind, however this one, and this arena does.

Thanks to you all for the mental stimulus... I look forward to more.

Sunmist [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Fledgist]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by atticus:

Your story describes one probalem I have always had with the general Christian population...closed minded to the fact that everybody has a different mind,and that thinking different isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Funny isn't it? It's like if you are a believer, then you have a weapon to make other people wrong, bad, ignorant, AND damned. Usually, being a true believer doesn't add to ones capacity for loving, but for damning.

Originally posted by Fledgist:

I was there as a reporter in the press section.

¡Muy intersanté![/qb]

How did you know I was there on behalf of the Spanish wire service?

[da musiq-bwoy]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Originally posted by WitchyOoman:
Baptism is a ritual that (IMHO) IS "that important" in that it is what brings us from Death into everlasting Life, what binds us to the One Body, etc.

If I may, I'd just like to clarify:
Baptism is an outward and visible sign of the internal work of salvation by the Holy Spirit. It symbolises putting to death the old way of living (for sin and self) and shows the beginning of a new life (of obedience to God). Baptism itself will not save you, will not wash your sins away. But it shows that God has done that cleansing of your sins and that you want everyone to know that fact.

For example, in the New Testament you find that people are baptized after they have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord of their lives because they want to show everyone the remarkable thing that has happened to them: Jesus has died to take their punishment and has risen again to defeat death and offers new (eternal) life to them.

Praise God!

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Can you be Christian AND...

Originally posted by Fledgist:

I was there as a reporter in the press section.

by Mr. LeGz:

¡Muy intersanté!

Originally posted by Fledgist:

How did you know I was there on behalf of the Spanish wire service?

Sorry. That is classified info.