JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

[RasItal]

The government has won its latest legal battle over the proposed Portmore toll road.

Monday the Constitutional Court threw out a motion filed by the group of Portmore residents opposed to the plan to change the causeway to a toll road.

For the second time a group from Portmore has failed in a legal challenge to the government over its decision to establish a toll road connecting the growing dormitory community with the Corporate Area.

Two months ago the High Court threw out a motion by the Portmore Citizens Association and Portmore Advisory Council which had opposed the Toll Road.

The story was the same Monday as the Constitutional Court did not find favour with the legal challenge of a group of Jamaica Labour Party (JLP) councillors who reside in Portmore.

The group of councillors had challenged the construction of the Toll Road on constitutional grounds.

They contended that the decision to convert the Causeway into a Toll Road was a breach of their constitutional rights under section 18 of the Constitution.

They further argued that the construction of the Toll Road would interfere and restrict access to their property in Portmore.

But government lawyers rebuffed their motion and maintained that the conversion of the road is not in breach of their rights to their property.

The panel of judges agreed with the government and ruled that the declaration of the Minister to convert the Causeway into a toll road did not infringe on the constitutional rights of the residents.

Monday afternoon lead attorney for the group, Oswald James, expressed his disappointment with the ruling but noted that he was not yet fully aware of the reasons for the decision.

He says it is clear that this is not the end of the road for the residents.

In the meantime, the Portmore residents who took the matter to court have already instructed their lawyers to check the ruling for grounds of appeal.

JLP Councillor Natalie Campbell-Rodrigues, who is one of the residents who filed the motion, says they are devastated by the court defeat.

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Source: RJR news

[niceniss]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

well they can take it to the privy council where they might get justice from judges not nyamming from the palms of the PNP.

[mari]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

Causeway being the shortest way to go "cross di wata" is normally so congested that it is only used in one direction at peak hours anyway and is always under construction/repair. there are however several ways of getting to and from portmore. It takes a little more time, but is still comfortable. In the after work time the access roads leading to the causeway are blocked for miles coming out of downtown Kingston and Three Miles.

My conclusion was that the reason the government wanted to change it to a toll road was to encourage traffic to use the alternative routes.

[niceniss]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

your conclusion is incorrect.

[mari]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

Thanks for the correction.

What is the real reason?

[niceniss]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

think about it; Portmore people are the primary users of the causeway. If this is supposed to be beneficial to them why is it that the overwhelming majority of Portmore residents(regardless of political leaning) are coming out against the toll road? So much so that they brought it to the courts(they lost and so the JLP tried again).
Why?

[mari]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

Thinking is not my strong point, but I'll try:

1. Because it is the shortest way to get home from both up and downtown?
2. Because it has become a habit to travel on this road.
3. Because they don't see why they should start paying for something that they have used free of cost for so long.

If they were here in Germany they would win the legal case with point number three. There is a law here called Habitual Law. Use of the road as it is would be gaurantee by law, because it has becoming habitual after so many years usage.

Such a law may be hidden somehere in the Jamaican legal system. It is also in English law (rights because of habit), and we took over a whole lot of things from England when we became independence. Maybe they should try with that instead of constitutional rights.

To challenge the change in usage of a road under constitutional rights looked very shaky in the first place.

Please note that I am not fighting with you. I am debating a point. If I don't reply to you after this, it's because it is now 5 pm and I am closing and going home. I have not personally switched on the computer at home in months. So we can continue tomorrow, when I'm back at work.

See you then

[BakYaSoh]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

Yahdie, you live in Germany? Where? (I used to live in Pforzheim, in the Black Forest.)

Britain has something called "common law." This is, in significant part, law out of habit as you describe. It is based on precedent -- what did judges decide in the past, and what was legal in the past. British Common Law begins during the reign of Henry II Plantagenet who set up the law courts in the shires. For the first time, the law in England was not simply what the King said it was.

Jamaica is not a common law state, it is a constitutional one. (Britain has no constitution.) Therefore, Jamaica has no legal foundation for habitual usage. While many will use this argument to appeal to the mercy of the court, that is all they are doing, appealing to the mercy of the court. (I am not sure, but I think Jamaican law is like Russian law in that neither recognizes precedents -- each judge rules independently and is not held to a previous judge's precedent.)

Germany has both a written constitution and the Habitual Law. But, although the Habitual Law often functions the same as Common Law, they are very different constructs. The Habitual Law is not intended to be a living constitution, as Common Law is, but is a legacy of German disunity. Not very long ago, there were as many as 250 different states in The Germanies, each independent and making their own laws. The Habitual Law is a way of exempting long held custom and tradition from national laws. Habitual Law has been extended by the courts on a national level to mean all habitual usage. (At least that's my take on it -- please let me know if I'm mistaken.)

[mountaingal]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

at the risk of hijacking, can i ask, backyaso and yahdie, why it is:
* Germany in English
* Allemagne in French
* Deutschland in German

Whameck three diffrant name fi di one country?

[BakYaSoh]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

Deutsch means German, thus Deutschland means Land of the Germans.

Although the Germans called their language Deutsch, even in Roman times, the Romans called the Deutsch "de Germanii," and referred to the German people as Germanium, and to things German as Germanicum. Thus, the British, having been a Roman province, call the Deutsch Germans from Germanium, Germanicum and Germanii. It is odd that this stuck, since English is really a German patois invented by the German invaders of the 5th - 7th centuries CE.

Allemani was one of the German tribes way back when. When the Franks (more Germans) conquered Gaul, they renamed it Frankland, which became Francia, then France. The Franks referred to Eastern Germany as Allemagne because the Allemani were a large German tribe on the east bank of the Rhine.

By the way, The United States of America is die Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika in German. Jamaica is Jamaika (zha MY kah), Canada is Kanada, the UK is das Vereinigte Koenigreich Grossbritanien und Nordirland, and beautiful, sunny California is Kalifornien. My German driving licence has New York City as Neujorkstadt -- though most Germans laugh when I show them that. (Is it okay to show off a little? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )

Many other country names are mangled in translation too: Magyarorszag is Hungary, Sqiperi is Albania, Sverige is Sweden, and Hellas is Greece.

[mari]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb] at the risk of hijacking, can i ask, backyaso and yahdie, why it is:
* Germany in English
* Allemagne in French
* Deutschland in German

Whameck three diffrant name fi di one country? [/qb]

You forgot Allemania in Spanish etc. etc. Almost all European countries have a different name for other countries and sometimes also for places within the individuals countries.
.
BakYaSoh has explained some of the basics of how it came to be better than I could have.

Germans only refer to their country as Germany when they are in English speaking countries. The name of the country is Deutschland, and the people are the Deutsche. I never knew this until I came to live here.

Maybe it has to do pronounciation, e.g. all German cities with diffcult to pronounce names have been renamed by the English: München is called Munich, Köln is called Cologne etc. However I understand why, because it took me years before I was correctly able to pronounce some place names/words correctly.

Many English words are also difficult for Germans, so they make it easier on themselves by using a German pronounciation to correspond with the spelling. Jamaica therefore became Ya my ka, because:
1. There is no 'j' in the German language und it was either spelling it with dsch (German written J) or pronouncing it Yut (German pronounciation of the letter J); ja the German for yes is pronounced ya.
2. ai is pronounced like the letter 'I' in English. there is no single letter 'I' in the Germany language.
3. The letter 'C' is always pronounced 'say'.

Germans therefore spell Jamaica, J a m a i k a, pronouncing it like above. When you tell most Germans you are from Jamaica, they don't know what you are talking about. An acquaintance of mine had to spell the name before they understood where she meant, while at the bank.

[mari]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

Originally posted by BakYaSoh:
[qb] Yahdie, you live in Germany? Where? (I used to live in Pforzheim, in the Black Forest.)

Habitual Law has been extended by the courts on a national level to mean all habitual usage. (At least that's my take on it -- please let me know if I'm mistaken.) [/qb]

I live in Bergisch Gladbach, which is lies between Cologne (Köln) and Bonn.

England had (still have?) courts of law and courts of justice. Sometimes what is legal and what is just differs, so if someone lost their case in a court of law, he could seek redress in the court of justice.

I learnt this long ago in school in Jamaica (Mercantile Law)

I thought habitual law also applied in Jamaica, because there is a law that says a squatter occupying premises for over 60 years, becomes the legal owner and can apply to have the title transferred to his/her name. (?)

Your statement on habitual law in Germany sounds good enough to be correct, but I don't really know how it came to be. However, I will check it out.

There was a case here, where one neighbour sued the other because he had a statue in his front yard, facing towards his living room and showing the stinky finger. The one who sued lost, because he didn't sue until five years after the statue was first erected. The grounds: Habitual Law. He had lived with the insult so long that it didn't make any difference anymore. If he had sued shortly after the statue was erected,he would have won

[BakYaSoh]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

Bergisch Gladbach -- what a cool name for a town. I've never been to Bonn or Koeln. One day.

And yes, good call, England STILL has courts. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

The land squatting falls under homesteading laws (they may be called something else in Jamaica). Even from biblical times, homesteading laws have been their own category. The Bible's commandments, and Talmud's commentary, on land law (I'm studying this right now) is surprisingly extensive. How long does it take to make a homestead claim, how long does the owner have to dispute someone else homesteading on her land before she loses her land? But these homesteading laws, both in the Bible and secular society, are differentiated from other property laws.

Where I lived in Germany, the "J" in Jamaika is pronounced like the French "J" in "journalist." But then, in Pforzheim, we pronounce the "es" in "Pommes Frites." And, of course, there's the obligatory "le" at the end of all our words, like saying it's "halbele Siebele" for 6:30.

Tschuessle. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[Wardob]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

Just an observation


YARDIE: - “ Jamaica is not a common law state, it is a constitutional one. (Britain has no constitution.)

Not a common law state? I am not questioning your legal knowledge but from my understanding Jamaica is governed by both common and statute laws. And clearly by its definition (Common law is the law of the land from time immemorial) they do have the legal foundation for habitual use.

YARDIE: - “(I am not sure, but I think Jamaican law is like Russian law in that neither recognizes precedents -- each judge rules independently and is not held to a previous judge's precedent.)

Your legal knowledge may be far superior to mine, but all judge rule or should rule independently regardless of precedent. But that does not say reference or precedents are not used in our courts, on the contrary I believe our judges or often guided by and refer to precedents set by others.

YARDIE: - “Therefore, Jamaica has no legal foundation for habitual usage.”

Again I am not questioning your legal knowledge but as a friendy advice if you have a piece of property in Jamaica that is been used as a pathway constantly by the citizens for certain period, (I believe 5yrs and over) without they been disturbed you may loose it. At least once a year close it off, stop them by either written notification clearly posted or put up a gate and lock it for a day or two

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: JLP lose court ruling on Portmore Toll Road

I taught mercantile law in college in Jamaica for a while too, and mercantile laws abe strictly British common law,which is seperate from the general laws as practiced in the country.
It is based on previous decisions of courts ranging back to as far as laws exsted.
There is a habitual aspect of right of way use of path way. This is the basisi why every ptivate road in Jamaica has ti be gazzetted as closed to the public at least on dat every year. thuis is because unopp[sed use of a right of way will result in the right being transfered to the state,not the party using it.
Amy way only the government could benefit from any such use if the kaw as existed. I think that therr really is no case to be heard on the bridge.