Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

[niceniss]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

well said yahdie- you say.

maybe because you are both talking nonsence or lived in a different reality than the rest of Jamaica.

[niceniss]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

and yahdie to answer your question: YES some are stupid!
unless you haven't been in a jamaican election you should know that a lot of criminality of stuffing ballot boxes, voting numerous times, stealing ballot boxes and intimidating voters to stay away from polling station takes place on election day, not to mention the high percentage of electorate who simply refuse to vote so the outcome you see is not often real.

the people who perform these criminal acts are stupid whether you like to admit it or not.
dont even bother to pretend that the "votes" reflect the electorates choice.

[mari]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

I know this happens, in certain areas, on both sides of the fence, so it most probably balances out, and I also agree that Jamaica must have its quota of stupid people..... but do only the stupid people go out and vote? I don't believe so. And yes I think the votes reflect the electorates choice, and that even in the areas where such acts you mentioned are wantonly carried out. Political birds of a feather flock together in such areas.

I was in Jamaica early this year, and saw a country on the move inspite of so many years of being falsely governed.

As Johnnycake said, we should try to curb our biases and, stop arguing among ourselves, and try to cure the disease, with which the symptoms will disappear by themselves.

[niceniss]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Originally posted by Yahdie:
[qb] I know this happens, in certain areas, on both sides of the fence, so it most probably balances out, and I also agree that Jamaica must have its quota of stupid people..... but do only the stupid people go out and vote? I don't believe so. And yes I think the votes reflect the electorates choice, and that even in the areas where such acts you mentioned are wantonly carried out. Political birds of a feather flock together in such areas.

I was in Jamaica early this year, and saw a country on the move inspite of so many years of being falsely governed.

As Johnnycake said, we should try to curb our biases and, stop arguing among ourselves, and try to cure the disease, with which the symptoms will disappear by themselves. [/qb]

funny you should say curb biases when in the previous post you said manley was the best thing that ever happened to Jamaica! :saying a prayer:

both sides? JLP candidates have been jailed under "state of emergency" on election day so they couldnt even cast their votes!
yes, both sides do participate in those activities but it would be a complete lie to say that it hasnt been carried out on a much larger scale by PNP. The JLP are usually reactionary.

[remo]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Originally posted by MaasDee:
[qb]

Originally posted by remo:
[qb] A lot has been said about the film being one sided or the director is a Manley desciple..But,what I havent heard from any of them is that the film is inaccurate in any way [/qb]

Come now Remo, I can't believe that you would make a perposterous statement like that after reading my first post.

The first two paragraphs states this fact very clearly:

"I saw it too and it was a disgrace what this woman has done with the truth.

As a Jamaican who has seen the progression of Jamaican politics since independence in 1962, her one sided and biased assessment of Jamaica's financial woes and who is to be blamed is downright disgusting and libelous."

That this film is riddled with lies and inaccuracies should be more than evident from me saying that!

[/qb]

The film is showing us what really happened after the fact(a post mortem if you will)...Would you care to point out the lies and inaccuracies here for us....

[remo]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Originally posted by Yahdie:
The worst enemy of "THIRD WORLD" and other weaker countries is the USA, ask anybody who has lived in one did not prostitute itself to US policies.

The USA deliberately set out to "MASH UP" Jamaica with its propaganda, its economic and other sanctions, money policies, the guns that were sent to terrorize and destablize.
[/QB]

Careful Yahdie,This kind of statement will get you in trouble here,According to some on here this never happened.
The U.S. never sent weapons to help their buddy uncle eddie forcing uncle manley to run to his friends in Cuba and elsewhere for his own supplies of weapons,The results of which can still be seen today add in poverty, gang warfare and the drug cartels and what we get is a recipe
for disaster..
So we sit here and blame one side or the other
what does that get us?

[niceniss]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Originally posted by remo:
[qb]

Originally posted by Yahdie:
The worst enemy of "THIRD WORLD" and other weaker countries is the USA, ask anybody who has lived in one did not prostitute itself to US policies.

The USA deliberately set out to "MASH UP" Jamaica with its propaganda, its economic and other sanctions, money policies, the guns that were sent to terrorize and destablize.
[/qb]

Careful Yahdie,This kind of statement will get you in trouble here,According to some on here this never happened.
The U.S. never sent weapons to help their buddy uncle eddie forcing uncle manley to run to his friends in Cuba and elsewhere for his own supplies of weapons,The results of which can still be seen today add in poverty, gang warfare and the drug cartels and what we get is a recipe
for disaster..
So we sit here and blame one side or the other
what does that get us? [/QB]

maybe you an yahdie can produce a likkle supmn called... er... I dont know... EVIDENCE?

[remo]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Evidence?
Just look at our history or do you deny that too?

[niceniss]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Originally posted by remo:
[qb] Evidence?
Just look at our history or do you deny that too? [/qb]

oh come now! what history? dont try that with me... wont work.
evidence to substantiate your claims. Solid evidence.

[remo]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Originally posted by Donnika:
[qb]

Originally posted by remo:
[qb] Evidence?
Just look at our history or do you deny that too? [/qb]

oh come now! what history? dont try that with me... wont work.
evidence to substantiate your claims. Solid evidence. [/qb]

I wont have any proof until uncle eddie confesses
and I dont intend to hold my breath for that one
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[niceniss]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Originally posted by remo:
[qb]

Originally posted by Donnika:
[qb]

Originally posted by remo:
[qb] Evidence?
Just look at our history or do you deny that too? [/qb]

oh come now! what history? dont try that with me... wont work.
evidence to substantiate your claims. Solid evidence. [/qb]

I wont have any proof until uncle eddie confesses
and I dont intend to hold my breath for that one
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/qb]

in other words, libel and proganda is fine as long as Eddie Seaga is the target?

gotcha loud and clear

[Sinco01]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Originally posted by Donnika:
[qb]

Originally posted by remo:
[qb]

Originally posted by Donnika:
[qb]

Originally posted by remo:
[qb] Evidence?
Just look at our history or do you deny that too? [/qb]

oh come now! what history? dont try that with me... wont work.
evidence to substantiate your claims. Solid evidence. [/qb]

I wont have any proof until uncle eddie confesses
and I dont intend to hold my breath for that one
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/qb]

in other words, libel and proganda is fine as long as Eddie Seaga is the target?

gotcha loud and clear [/qb]

no Donnika ... there were ..er... other parties involved here ..
but if you need manifest ... invoices .. flight numbers ...
sorry i can't help ... wasn't paying attention .. was too busy dodging bullets

[johnnycakes]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

Donnika,
You evidently have no knowledge of the Cold War and the standard U.S foreign policy of overthrowing or subverting governments that show an interest in socialism which is anathema to those who own the U.S. and its government.
The U.S overthrew the socialist ELECTED governments of Guatemala in 1954, the Dominican Republic in 1965, Chile in 1973 . It waged war against a socialist leaning Nicaragua until it collapsed. It spent billions waging war against leftist movements throughout Latin America for the past 50 years and more.
It is currently spending about a billion US a year waging war against the FARC'sa leftist insurgency in Colombia, is hard at work secretly trying to oust Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, an avowed opponent of capitalism in Latin America and the United States has waged military, propaganda and biological warfare against democratic socialist Cuba since it's revolution in 1959.

For you or anyone else to suggest that the U.S had no hand in subverting and ultimately ousting Michael Manley for his socialist leanings and his friendship with Fidel Castro is to simply dismiss the history of the Western Hemisphere for the past 100 years.

For Maasdee,
Anytime you would care to go point for point about what you consider inaccuracies in my previous post, fire away.
To rebut your point about Edward Seaga not tripling the national debt: It's coincidental but his master Ronald Reagan whom he was the first head of state to visit after his (Reagan's) election also tripled the national debt of the United States during his terms in office fighting the Cold War. Edward Seaga's government in kowtowing to U.S. (capitalist) interests was rewarded by being granted the loans which were denied to Michael Manley. Not only those loans but even more.
The figures are available if you'd care to take the time to research them but consider that if Mr. Seaga took all the loans he was offered, he had to greatly increase the national debt.

Michael, between a rock and a hard place: the U.S pressure and his opposition at home would surely also have taken the money as well so it is not a Seaga vs. Manley argument but rather a statement of what conditions are like for all deeply indebted Third World countries.

I would ask that those who disagree with what I posted argue the information and not name-call which makes it seem that you have no counter to what I say is true.

Would any of you say that poor and working people are better off under capitalism such as is enforced upon you by the United States than under Cuban style democratic socialism.?


Debate this: The Cubans on average make $20.00US (about $1200.00 JA ) less per week.
For that $20.00 they get excellent and free medical care, dental care, equal,excellent and free educational opportunities from pre-school to graduate school, a guaranteed job that pays a living wage, guaranteed adequate shelter, a crime free country , guaranteed levels of nutrition.
No one on this board can point out ANY Third World country in which capitalism has accomplished all that in 45 years.

Not only that but Cuba has an electoral system under which the people and not parties like the JLP and PNP decide who they get to vote for as their representative in the government .
In Cuba political parties, including the Cuban Communist Party (PCC) are forbidden by law from participating in electoral campaigns thus eliminating the corrupting influence of those with money .
Can you imagine a large group of Jamaicans in each community gathering on nomination day and choosing from amongst themselves the people who will run for the office of local representative? No PNP, no JLP just the people themselves choosing one of their own neighbors to represent them.
Another factor is that in Cuba, that elected representative has to report back to that group every six months and if the people who nominated and elected that representative don't like what he or she has done in office, by law they can remove him or her on the spot.

Imagine having an electoral system like the Cubans that has successfuly eliminated corruption in the political process.
Imagine living and raising your children in a loving, crime-free environment.
Imagine not having to worry about the cost of rent, medical and dental care, education, a job that pays enough to live well for your entire life and the lifes of your children.

Or, as you prefer, waste your time trying to slap bandages on the cancer called capitalism that is eating you up and live with the all the worries you now have that are worsening as they are in all Third World countries.
It's your life, it's your country and the future is in your hands.

And please, stop this senseless bickering about whether the PNP or the JLP is to blame for all that is wrong with your lives.
The problem is twofold: an economic system that places 80% of the nation's available wealth in the hands of 5% of the people as is standard in most capitalist countries and a debt load incurred by those at the top that takes some 70% of all the money taken in by the government and sends it to banks in the wealthy First World..

In Cuba all that money goes to feed, house, clothe and provide medical dental care and educations for ALL its people.

Why are you so insistent on sending all that money to rich people when it is needed so badly at home?

Explain that to yourselves and your children.

and remember this:
"In the world today, millions of children sleep in the streets: not one is Cuban."

[niceniss]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

johnnycakes, noh badda waste time fi address me caw me cyaan badda wid you socialist communist propaganda dem as usual.

Sinco, if you no have no evidence, yuh noh have no case and yuh can get charged fi libel. memba dat.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Interest article - Setphanie Black -Life & Debt

I notice that Donnika does not realize that the expression of facts,although involves a person,is not the same as being biased.
As far as she is concerned it seems,any positive statement about the PNP is essentially bias.
I suppose she will have a learning experiencce
if she comes into contact,with some really honest members of the JLP.