Bullets can't kill poverty

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would like to see the briefing notes that Dr. Dud sent to Little man, to cause him to accept corruption, division, negative growth, 25% destruction of the economy, terrorism and bringing us into the Cold War.

The legacy of which is lasting and which every Government since the 70s have had to battle with.
</div></div>
Do you think I have time to be sending personal notes to posterss here?

As usual you always resort to personality attacks, when you hav eno facts to back up upour drivels. This is not th eentertainment section. It is about serious discussion. IOf you have nothing od substance to contribute personal attacks cannot be subsuttuted instead. when are you foing to frow up? How many times have you been suspended from these boards, for the same behavior pattern?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you think I have time to be sending personal notes to posterss here?

As usual you always resort to personality attacks, when you hav eno facts to back up upour drivels. This is not th eentertainment section. It is about serious discussion. IOf you have nothing od substance to contribute personal attacks cannot be subsuttuted instead. when are you foing to frow up? How many times have you been suspended from these boards, for the same behavior pattern? </div></div>

LOL.. <span style="font-weight: bold">Personality Attacks</span>?
You are a Doctor tell me can someone truly attack another’s personality?
In any case it was Little Man that mentioned that he became convinced by your efforts and changed his thinking.... all I asked for were the <span style="font-weight: bold">briefing notes</span>.

[bee_bop]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

Tuff Gong said:
&quot;Look I cannot argue with emotions, Menlie talk a lot of noise but he and his gangs set Jamaica by hundreds of years. Blacks were doing fine before Menlie and did worse after Menlie. No other Government prior to that used the State resources in such a corrupt manner.
In every measurable stats the country did worse:

Crime
Economy
State Corruption
Respect for fellow Jamaicans
The country was split apart by shade, race and class. Most of the Chinese and Jamaicans whites were driven out of the Country or their business driven underground.
You can say what you want I was there.&quot;

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">Why does it have to be Dr. Dudd who convinced me??? Most Jamaicans would know that prior to the '70's they didn't have much say. Even some of the privileged minority had to hol' their corners. When Manley came in he created opportunities for them through his nationalization. How do you think some of the local insurance companies, hoteliers, and bankers, got so big, all of a sudden??? If some of those multinational companies had not 'up and went' there wouldn't have been much chance the local elite would have decided to go '<span style="font-weight: bold">big</span>'.
Ask a lot of the 'average' people, how many of them were able to go to the school of their choice, before Manley??? Through free education, a lot of people were able to avail themselves of a higher education, rather than mere primary school. Maybe some people have thrown this opportunity away, but that is their choice, at least they didn't feel compelled to avoid school.
The Cold War would have hit Jamaica one way, or the other, in most countries dictatorships were either 'torn' down, or 'propped-up'. Guns were being distributed laissez-faire, all over. How do you think the AK-47, and the M-16, have become so common???
Nobody drove Chinese, or anyone else, out of the country, in the '70s. There was a lot of hysteria, and panic, mostly over non-existent, or insignificant bogey-men. This fear gripping the nation was in the interest of the then-opposition, because it undermined the ruling party, what with people taking money out of their bank accounts 'helter-skelter'. They could have stood their ground and ensured that the policies made were in good economic sense. Not every government in the world has made the best decisions regarding finance, especially when faced with 'uncharted waters'.
Most of all, from Jamaica got independence, people had been talking of blacks going crazy...maybe they finally have gone collectively insane, but much long after. Before Jamaica got independence, there was talk of peasantry buying machetes for homicidal purposes, ignoring the fact that most people involved in farming, at the time, needed this tool.</span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Littleman says:
[color:#660000]Why does it have to be Dr. Dudd who convinced me??? Most Jamaicans would know that prior to the '70's they didn't have much say.] </div></div>
You were the one who said Dr. Dud convinced you.
99% of all the views I ever heard expressed about the Menlie era are positive on Menlie.
The victors write the History, but since I saw the destruction with my own eyes hew to no emotional candy coating and distortion of the facts.

[bee_bop]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Littleman says:
Why does it have to be Dr. Dudd who convinced me??? Most Jamaicans would know that prior to the '70's they didn't have much say.
You were the one who said Dr. Dud convinced you.
99% of all the views I ever heard expressed about the Menlie era are positive on Menlie.
The victors write the History, but since I saw the destruction with my own eyes hew to no emotional candy coating and distortion of the facts.
</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I think you have taken me grossly out of context, I merely referred to Dr. Dudd from the specific context of him having stated that, &quot;had changes not taken place, Jamaica would have seen civil war.&quot; I have heard that said from other sources, particularly someone from a more privileged background. So this statement is not an earth-shaking revelation.</span>

[evanovitch]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Littleman says:
Why does it have to be Dr. Dudd who convinced me??? Most Jamaicans would know that prior to the '70's they didn't have much say.
You were the one who said Dr. Dud convinced you.
99% of all the views I ever heard expressed about the Menlie era are positive on Menlie.
The victors write the History, but since I saw the destruction with my own eyes hew to no emotional candy coating and distortion of the facts.
</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I think you have taken me grossly out of context, I merely referred to Dr. Dudd from the specific context of him having stated that, &quot;had changes not taken place, Jamaica would have seen civil war.&quot; I have heard that said from other sources, particularly someone from a more privileged background. So this statement is not an earth-shaking revelation.</span> </div></div>

actually LM, in my opinion as one who was there as a teen in Manley's era an mixed wid people from both sides of the aisle as far as di political parties go, dere was a select few who would have agitated tings fi bring about a coup under the guise of a 'civil' war....no real civil war of course but there was a dedicated group who wanted to go the route of Cuba...irony is dat nuff a dem a some a di most monied a yaad dese days....

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Littleman says:
Why does it have to be Dr. Dudd who convinced me??? Most Jamaicans would know that prior to the '70's they didn't have much say.
You were the one who said Dr. Dud convinced you.
99% of all the views I ever heard expressed about the Menlie era are positive on Menlie.
The victors write the History, but since I saw the destruction with my own eyes hew to no emotional candy coating and distortion of the facts.
</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I think you have taken me grossly out of context, I merely referred to Dr. Dudd from the specific context of him having stated that, &quot;had changes not taken place, Jamaica would have seen civil war.&quot; I have heard that said from other sources, particularly someone from a more privileged background. So this statement is not an earth-shaking revelation.</span> </div></div>

actually LM, in my opinion as one who was there as a teen in Manley's era an mixed wid people from both sides of the aisle as far as di political parties go, dere was a select few who would have agitated tings fi bring about a coup under the guise of a 'civil' war....no real civil war of course but there was a dedicated group who wanted to go the route of Cuba...irony is dat nuff a dem a some a di most monied a yaad dese days.... </div></div> The period that Littleman and myself are refering to with regards to near civil war, was prior to Michael Manley and the PNP getting into office.
This was during the 60's when the JLP was in power.
We hear very little ablit this because it would take away from some of the hows and whys of Manley becomming what he termned &quot;democratic socialist&quot;.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I think you have taken me grossly out of context, I merely referred to Dr. Dudd from the specific context of him having stated that, &quot;had changes not taken place, Jamaica would have seen civil war.&quot; I have heard that said from other sources, particularly someone from a more privileged background. So this statement is not an earth-shaking revelation.</span> </div></div>

I have not and I dare Dr. Dud or anyone else to prove to me that Jamaica was nearing Civil War in 1972 when Menlie took over?
When Menlie came to power he promised better must come. What he clearly meant was robbing what he claimed to be the rich and the 21 Families (with the aid of some of the very 21) to fill the pockets of the some of the Power Hungry.
He was able to further enrich Marc Rich, Iran, certain branches of the Azans, the Mahfoods, the Matelons, Burch Stewart and set the stage for activists such as Peter Bunting, Mark Golding, Dr. D. K. Duncan, Danhai and others to become the nuevo riche in the late 80s/90s/2K, while systematically making the poor poorer.

He and his cohorts eventually got their Civil War, every references to 1980 claim it was a Civil War, so there goes you and Dr. Dud magnificent theory.
I cannot divorce you from your love of the Menlie era but the truth is very different. We went from tun corn meal and chicken back being dawg food to being a staple in most households, below Norbrook.

[neutral]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The period that Littleman and myself are refering to with regards to near civil war, was prior to Michael Manley and the PNP getting into office.
This was during the 60's when the JLP was in power.
We hear very little ablit this because it would take away from some of the hows and whys of Manley becomming what he termned &quot;democratic socialist&quot;. </div></div>

Dont know bout no civil war prior to manley taking office in 72,..however,I do know that the period after he took office something changed the political landscape,and set the stage for partisan politics and violence as a political weapon,..and lead us to where we are now mired in deep shtt and up the creek without a paddle.

Thats just my opinion though,I have never been a political pundit of Ja,...or claim any authority on the matter,just your average common or garden internet Jamaican.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The period that Littleman and myself are refering to with regards to near civil war, was prior to Michael Manley and the PNP getting into office.
This was during the 60's when the JLP was in power.
We hear very little ablit this because it would take away from some of the hows and whys of Manley becomming what he termned &quot;democratic socialist&quot;. </div></div>

Dont know bout no civil war prior to manley taking office in 72,..however,I do know that the period after he took office something changed the political landscape,and set the stage for partisan politics and violence as a political weapon,..and lead us to where we are now mired in deep shtt and up the creek without a paddle.

Thats just my opinion though,I have never been a political pundit of Ja,...or claim any authority on the matter,just your average common or garden internet Jamaican. </div></div> No need for speculation this is only about 40 years ago. It is recorded in the Daily Gleaner during the periods between 1963 and 71. All one need to doi is to check the archives and search using terms &quot;riot&quot; and &quot;state of emergency&quot; and it is their for all to see. ther was the Chinese riots, the Rodney rioys,both of which required states og emergency and a lot of innocent black boys killed by poluce to show power. That was a part of the strategy used to put down riots in those days. today it son;t work because people always look as soon as police in thearea.
This has nothing to do with my memory either it is all about reading the old news papers. I jad no political intrest either. as a matter of fact I was brought up in a family that was JLP as far as I can remember. I was forced to read about it as a part of my course ii ecinimics at Mona. That experienced opened my eyes and it has been opened ever since.

[neutral]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This has nothing to do with my memory either it is all about reading the old news papers. </div></div>

So wah yah seh Dr D,...yu is not a ole head like de rest a we...DWL.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This has nothing to do with my memory either it is all about reading the old news papers. </div></div>

So wah yah seh Dr D,...yu is not a ole head like de rest a we...DWL. </div></div> It depense on how old a head yopu talikng. I was not quite up to reading the news or intrested in much then. I am still an old foot since my daughter graduate Columbia this summer with a masters degree, so I will soon be looking to being a grand father,

[evanovitch]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The period that Littleman and myself are refering to with regards to near civil war, was prior to Michael Manley and the PNP getting into office.
This was during the 60's when the JLP was in power.
We hear very little ablit this because it would take away from some of the hows and whys of Manley becomming what he termned &quot;democratic socialist&quot;. </div></div>

Dont know bout no civil war prior to manley taking office in 72,..however,I do know that the period after he took office something changed the political landscape,and set the stage for partisan politics and violence as a political weapon,..and lead us to where we are now mired in deep shtt and up the creek without a paddle.

Thats just my opinion though,I have never been a political pundit of Ja,...or claim any authority on the matter,just your average common or garden internet Jamaican. </div></div> No need for speculation this is only about 40 years ago. It is recorded in the Daily Gleaner during the periods between 1963 and 71. All one need to doi is to check the archives and search using terms &quot;riot&quot; and &quot;state of emergency&quot; and it is their for all to see. ther was the Chinese riots, the Rodney rioys,both of which required states og emergency and a lot of innocent black boys killed by poluce to show power. That was a part of the strategy used to put down riots in those days. today it son;t work because people always look as soon as police in thearea.
This has nothing to do with my memory either it is all about reading the old news papers. I jad no political intrest either. as a matter of fact I was brought up in a family that was JLP as far as I can remember. I was forced to read about it as a part of my course ii ecinimics at Mona. That experienced opened my eyes and it has been opened ever since. </div></div>

u too comfortable wid dis black boy ting...how many were killed in teh Rodney riots...fi real....dat was mostly UC students dung a Cross Roads...tear gas did leggo an di wind was against it so all di police did get teargas so dem neva ha yeye fi fyah....scan di newspaper report u a claim fi read from...fi real....an mi wasn't even in HS den but mi memba dat fi many a reason the least of wich is knowing di police Supe in charge of di operation....Area 6 dat ....an mi hear nuff bout di post mortem of dat attempt fi curtail di fracas wich was so out of joint to be laughable,as was Shearer's over compensating fi him shawtcomings by tryin to be forceful...an yes, mi grew up in a JLP fambily too

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The period that Littleman and myself are refering to with regards to near civil war, was prior to Michael Manley and the PNP getting into office.
This was during the 60's when the JLP was in power.
We hear very little ablit this because it would take away from some of the hows and whys of Manley becomming what he termned &quot;democratic socialist&quot;. </div></div>

Dont know bout no civil war prior to manley taking office in 72,..however,I do know that the period after he took office something changed the political landscape,and set the stage for partisan politics and violence as a political weapon,..and lead us to where we are now mired in deep shtt and up the creek without a paddle.

Thats just my opinion though,I have never been a political pundit of Ja,...or claim any authority on the matter,just your average common or garden internet Jamaican. </div></div> No need for speculation this is only about 40 years ago. It is recorded in the Daily Gleaner during the periods between 1963 and 71. All one need to doi is to check the archives and search using terms &quot;riot&quot; and &quot;state of emergency&quot; and it is their for all to see. ther was the Chinese riots, the Rodney rioys,both of which required states og emergency and a lot of innocent black boys killed by poluce to show power. That was a part of the strategy used to put down riots in those days. today it son;t work because people always look as soon as police in thearea.
This has nothing to do with my memory either it is all about reading the old news papers. I jad no political intrest either. as a matter of fact I was brought up in a family that was JLP as far as I can remember. I was forced to read about it as a part of my course ii ecinimics at Mona. That experienced opened my eyes and it has been opened ever since. </div></div>

u too comfortable wid dis black boy ting...how many were killed in teh Rodney riots...fi real....dat was mostly UC students dung a Cross Roads...tear gas did leggo an di wind was against it so all di police did get teargas so dem neva ha yeye fi fyah....scan di newspaper report u a claim fi read from...fi real....an mi wasn't even in HS den but mi memba dat fi many a reason the least of wich is knowing di police Supe in charge of di operation....Area 6 dat ....an mi hear nuff bout di post mortem of dat attempt fi curtail di fracas wich was so out of joint to be laughable,as was Shearer's over compensating fi him shawtcomings by tryin to be forceful...an yes, mi grew up in a JLP fambily too </div></div>

According to the Gleaner, the University and CAST students marched down to Jamaica house and was teargassed by the police in a effort to srop them. THat was during the day. The riots started during thenight when the people started burining the businesses down town. it went as far as Cross Roads, torrington bridge. Ans yes they killed innocent by shooting them in that riot. In thoise days they civilians did not have any ullegal fire rms, but the police shot the with their rifles just the asme. Yoi know how it fo with the bopy talk and th eopld people. I rememeer My father always reger to adults as boys,because suring colonial periods blacks were seen as boys and girls irrspective of their age.. So it just came back to me the way they were tteated..

[evanovitch]

Re: Bullets can't kill poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The period that Littleman and myself are refering to with regards to near civil war, was prior to Michael Manley and the PNP getting into office.
This was during the 60's when the JLP was in power.
We hear very little ablit this because it would take away from some of the hows and whys of Manley becomming what he termned &quot;democratic socialist&quot;. </div></div>

Dont know bout no civil war prior to manley taking office in 72,..however,I do know that the period after he took office something changed the political landscape,and set the stage for partisan politics and violence as a political weapon,..and lead us to where we are now mired in deep shtt and up the creek without a paddle.

Thats just my opinion though,I have never been a political pundit of Ja,...or claim any authority on the matter,just your average common or garden internet Jamaican. </div></div> No need for speculation this is only about 40 years ago. It is recorded in the Daily Gleaner during the periods between 1963 and 71. All one need to doi is to check the archives and search using terms &quot;riot&quot; and &quot;state of emergency&quot; and it is their for all to see. ther was the Chinese riots, the Rodney rioys,both of which required states og emergency and a lot of innocent black boys killed by poluce to show power. That was a part of the strategy used to put down riots in those days. today it son;t work because people always look as soon as police in thearea.
This has nothing to do with my memory either it is all about reading the old news papers. I jad no political intrest either. as a matter of fact I was brought up in a family that was JLP as far as I can remember. I was forced to read about it as a part of my course ii ecinimics at Mona. That experienced opened my eyes and it has been opened ever since. </div></div>

u too comfortable wid dis black boy ting...how many were killed in teh Rodney riots...fi real....dat was mostly UC students dung a Cross Roads...tear gas did leggo an di wind was against it so all di police did get teargas so dem neva ha yeye fi fyah....scan di newspaper report u a claim fi read from...fi real....an mi wasn't even in HS den but mi memba dat fi many a reason the least of wich is knowing di police Supe in charge of di operation....Area 6 dat ....an mi hear nuff bout di post mortem of dat attempt fi curtail di fracas wich was so out of joint to be laughable,as was Shearer's over compensating fi him shawtcomings by tryin to be forceful...an yes, mi grew up in a JLP fambily too

According to the Gleaner, the University and CAST students marched down to Jamaica house and was teargassed by the police in a effort to srop them. THat was during the day. The riots started during thenight when the people started burining the businesses down town. it went as far as Cross Roads, torrington bridge. Ans yes they killed innocent by shooting them in that riot. In thoise days they civilians did not have any ullegal fire rms, but the police shot the with their rifles just the asme. Yoi know how it fo with the bopy talk and th eopld people. I rememeer My father always reger to adults as boys,because suring colonial periods blacks were seen as boys and girls irrspective of their age.. So it just came back to me the way they were tteated.. [/quote]

fi smaddy who love chat bout plantation thinking vs black jamaicans, ur citing di Gleaner is funny not to mention laughable...the Gleaner of that time. as a reference for impartial journalism is like the current PNP saying misusing funds is wrong an strikly a JLP ting...unbelievable AND not believable....an ur paraphrase of said Gleaner is no great sale fi me eida....