The beginning of Kingston's decline

**Wahalla** · 05-08-2009, 08:53 PM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

there is more contact between the instruments of goverment and the people.. before the fact of the matter there was less interaction between power and the people....

**barosa** · 05-09-2009, 02:22 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there is more contact between the instruments of goverment and the people.. before the fact of the matter there was less interaction between power and the people.... </div></div>
Good Day Wahalla! where have you been hiding? As usual, you can be depended on to make statements that causes some of us to pause and think. The above happens to be one of those. ~ Are you saying that this "more contact" between the instruments of government and the people is what we now have, compared to less interaction between power (instruments of government) and the people of the past which I would presume to be in the distant past?

To be honest, the more I think of it, is the more I realised that in a sense, you are right... How can we explain the rise of "donmanship" without acceding to the fact that when these characters came along, there were more "interactions" with them instead of with the real PEOPLE they displaced... The gangs in many communities of Kingston, Spanish Town and other cities/towns are closely tied or connected to either of our two political parties

the Govt) ~ It's unfortunate, but the interaction partner with the govt in power is with the Dons and Gang Leaders who takes the place of the PEOPLE... It's the "People part", that doesn't quite fit. ~ The Dons and Gangs are agents of Violence and Crime and have been allowed to become intermediates between the Govt and we the PEOPLE.

The People did not vote for the Dons or for rival gangs, yet their lives are being influenced by these "politically santioned imposters"... True democracy of the people is being sabotaged by an <span style="font-weight: bold">illegal level of non-governmental authorities</span> "lording it" over them in the garrisons. The Govt may be having "interaction" with the Dons and the Gang leaders and is no longer interacting with the PEOPLE... Since there is no provision in Jamaica's constitution for an intermediate level between the People and their elected members of the local and central governments, the intermediates should be removed and let peace sanity and calm return. I prefer the period in the past when the Govt had "less interaction" with the People by not having any interaction with Dons and Gang leaders because they didn't exist...
____________________________

It's not where you are from that matters, it's where you are heading.

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-09-2009, 02:34 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

If you study the sociology of prisons, you will see the real source of 'donmanship'
there are no place with evidence of donmanship as prisons. every prison irrespective of how the administration interact to them. How is it that we lack the abillity to imagine ourselves in hopeless situations and i really hopeless situation. One in which we believe that ther is no getting away, or out of.
In thise cases all the inmates create theri own communities seperate from the administrations. That is how they mentally free them selves from being in proson. It is normal human behavior. Irrespective of what race, sex, country or institution or gender. The difference is that prior to independence literacy and the ease of communication was not that common. People did not realize hwat was possible. as a result they did not know that what they wer experiencong was the bottom of the barrell. nowledge has stirred intrest in having a better life. when the hope of achieving this goal is absent. With this knowledge, they will develope their own community within the country, wher they appoint who they wish to be incahrge and who will be serfs. it is normal. if you go to any urban ghetto, or prioson which is anurban ghetto in reality,you will find it irresoective of race.

**britisha** · 05-09-2009, 03:02 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you study the sociology of prisons, you will see the real source of 'donmanship'
there are no place with evidence of donmanship as prisons. every prison irrespective of how the administration interact to them. How is it that we lack the abillity to imagine ourselves in hopeless situations and i really hopeless situation. One in which we believe that ther is no getting away, or out of.
In thise cases all the inmates create theri own communities seperate from the administrations. That is how they mentally free them selves from being in proson. It is normal human behavior. Irrespective of what race, sex, country or institution or gender. The difference is that prior to independence literacy and the ease of communication was not that common. People did not realize hwat was possible. as a result they did not know that what they wer experiencong was the bottom of the barrell. nowledge has stirred intrest in having a better life. when the hope of achieving this goal is absent. With this knowledge, they will develope their own community within the country, wher they appoint who they wish to be incahrge and who will be serfs. it is normal. if you go to any urban ghetto, or prioson which is anurban ghetto in reality,you will find it irresoective of race. </div></div>

If I understand you correctly....in two words what u r describing is a <span style="font-weight: bold">sub-culture</span>...almost every country/nation has at least one. Why use prisons as an example? That is depressing to the hilt!!

Now, did you say that prior to Independence, the ease of communication was not that common?

Who was it not common for and who were doing the communicating or non communicating? Which Independence do you refer to?

If anything, from what I see, it is the reverse when it comes on to communication in Jamaica....now we dare not open our mouths to even speak the truth, even in a scenario as giving witness to a crime...yuh bettah kip yuh moute shut, or be numbered among the statistics...yuh dare not criticize some politicians or yuh name "mud" if yuh duh...that alone shows that now we are muzzled as compared to days gone by...and that dear Sherlock, is a big part of the problem.

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-09-2009, 03:15 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

prisons prove that ther are many styles of management in prosons,and it is not theclosenes of leaders, but the lackof hope that motoates donmanship. As for communication. I am reffering to the abillity to know what is achievable and the abillity to compare lifestyles. communication systems, in the form of cable, telepnones text mesaging. cheap long diostance,the internat . al those forms of communicatuion informs the youth of possibillities available and lifestyles attainable. they see it as hopeles unless they take drastic steps. well the drastic steps are not always legal and peaceful.

**britisha** · 05-09-2009, 03:22 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

Okay, thanks for clearing that up...why aren't you in bed? I'm here nursing my toe, I stubbed it...darn thing hurts.

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-09-2009, 03:25 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, thanks for clearing that up...why aren't you in bed? I'm here nursing my toe, I stubbed it...darn thing hurts. </div></div> tell me wher on you rtoe you stubbed and iwill tell how to treat ity with accupresure. why I'm up? Well I amon consultation with some associates abroad. and their time is different.

**britisha** · 05-09-2009, 04:08 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The troubling thing about Jamaica, is that we have developed an "Us and Them" society which is not good. If we are unable to control and help the "underclass" where most of the criminals are recruited from, Jamaica's future will be affected negatively. JAMAICA has a JOB to do, Delay is DANGER and the sooner we realised it, the better... pray</div></div>

thanks for that response, a snippet which I selected here..before I start..."recruited" from...*chukkle*..our future is negatively affected alreddie, an mi wondering hiff is why di ole ppl dem used to seh "wha gaawn bad a maawning ..."

As all can see I joined this board in 2000 and since then many posters here have beaten hup dem gums and gaawn.. been saying what you have just said, and it seems as if we have made no "headway" in dealing with this problem of crime at home...but you are correct, and the more we hear of some progress in Jamaica, in terms of some improvement in our infrastructure, new roads, more access to material things, etc etc the more we hear of the alarming crime statistics...a lot of them <span style="font-weight: bold">rivaling what we read of in North America</span> including Ponzi schemes..<span style="font-weight: bold">

You said it, in a nutshell, the "Us versus Them" mentality, we see it at home and abroad...for a country that sings "One Love" and has the most churches per sq mile; it is a joke/sad commentary when we witness how we treat each other...and den everybody beat dem chest and say "not *i*" annuh meee...point fingah an seh..'ah fi dem fault...' No personal responsibility in many cases; but expecting the country to do for them in all cases.</span>

At the same time it appears that most of us love the status quo or else it could not be allowed to perpetuate for so long; and it seems as if we are doomed for we are still stuck with two worn out political parties that have done their time...

In the early days of Kingston that the author referred to, we had a vision, and we had a Unity and a focus even if it was for *self-government*...as a child, I remember envisioning great[er] things for us as a people and as a nation..so things were different..NOW WE ARE BOMBARDED WITH SO MANY irrelevant and unimportant issues...eg b-manism.. We just need to get back to "our* roots when we were more civil to each other...<span style="font-weight: bold">reclaim our peaceful heritage</span> and reclaim our sense of National Pride..and ignore the distracting trivia...and also help the unfortunate ones that you mentioned...give them a bly to get started in life...training, apprenticeships etc

Everybody thinks he/she has the answers, I most certainly don't but I do know and to be redundant, we need new blood in a tired system or it will die, new visionaries..we need a GOOD GOVERNMENT...attach your ideas for good government...whateva dat means; some in politics should give it up and make room for others to lead, since they have proven themselves a failure; for:

"<span style="font-weight: bold">where there is NO vision, the people perish"</span>

Take care Barosa.

**britisha** · 05-09-2009, 04:09 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, thanks for clearing that up...why aren't you in bed? I'm here nursing my toe, I stubbed it...darn thing hurts. </div></div> tell me wher on you rtoe you stubbed and iwill tell how to treat ity with accupresure. why I'm up? Well I amon consultation with some associates abroad. and their time is different. </div></div>

Thanks Doc, some motrin is working, much relieved now.

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-09-2009, 04:18 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, thanks for clearing that up...why aren't you in bed? I'm here nursing my toe, I stubbed it...darn thing hurts. </div></div> tell me wher on you rtoe you stubbed and iwill tell how to treat ity with accupresure. why I'm up? Well I amon consultation with some associates abroad. and their time is different. </div></div>

Thanks Doc, some motrin is working, much relieved now. </div></div> you are hooked on 'drugs eh/?
Just bend the corresponding finger of the opposite hand at the joint that hurts on the toe. You need to yse the other hand to bend the fiunger. instant relief af ter a few seconds.

**britisha** · 05-09-2009, 04:21 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by britisha

Okay, thanks for clearing that up...why aren't you in bed? I'm here nursing my toe, I stubbed it...darn thing hurts. </div></div> tell me wher on you rtoe you stubbed and iwill tell how to treat ity with accupresure. why I'm up? Well I amon consultation with some associates abroad. and their time is different. </div></div>

Thanks Doc, some motrin is working, much relieved now. </div></div> you are hooked on 'drugs eh/?
Just bend the corresponding finger of the opposite hand at the joint that hurts on the toe. You need to yse the other hand to bend the fiunger. instant relief af ter a few seconds.

but so yah...a di first med mi tek since mi can remember...I must try your suggestion, if it start to pain mi later...thanks..."good morning to yah"

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-09-2009, 04:24 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by Dr.Dudd

Originally posted by britisha

Okay, thanks for clearing that up...why aren't you in bed? I'm here nursing my toe, I stubbed it...darn thing hurts. </div></div> tell me wher on you rtoe you stubbed and iwill tell how to treat ity with accupresure. why I'm up? Well I amon consultation with some associates abroad. and their time is different. </div></div>

Thanks Doc, some motrin is working, much relieved now. </div></div> you are hooked on 'drugs eh/?
Just bend the corresponding finger of the opposite hand at the joint that hurts on the toe. You need to yse the other hand to bend the fiunger. instant relief af ter a few seconds.

but so yah...a di first med mi tek since mi can remember...I must try your suggestion, if it start to pain mi later...thanks..."good morning to yah"

Walk good

**britisha** · 05-09-2009, 10:37 AM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by britisha

Originally posted by Dr.Dudd

Originally posted by britisha

Okay, thanks for clearing that up...why aren't you in bed? I'm here nursing my toe, I stubbed it...darn thing hurts. </div></div> tell me wher on you rtoe you stubbed and iwill tell how to treat ity with accupresure. why I'm up? Well I amon consultation with some associates abroad. and their time is different. </div></div>

Thanks Doc, some motrin is working, much relieved now. </div></div> you are hooked on 'drugs eh/?
Just bend the corresponding finger of the opposite hand at the joint that hurts on the toe. You need to yse the other hand to bend the fiunger. instant relief af ter a few seconds.

but so yah...a di first med mi tek since mi can remember...I must try your suggestion, if it start to pain mi later...thanks..."good morning to yah"

Walk good

Yup; mi walking good, the Motrin worked.

**barosa** · 05-09-2009, 03:14 PM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, thanks for clearing that up...why aren't you in bed? I'm here nursing my toe, I stubbed it...darn thing hurts. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tell me wher on you rtoe you stubbed and iwill tell how to treat ity with accupresure. why I'm up? Well I amon consultation with some associates abroad. and their time is different.</div></div>
The above, is very interesting! There I was at 1.22AM in the morning believing that I was the only NIGHT OWL up at that hour, only to discover that the above TWO were outdoing 'yours truly' and many others. You both have earned my respect for LATE HOWAS and especially you britisha, for having "what it takes" to be up at 3.21 AM in the early mawning, lang after Duppy gawn a dem bed... Those hours bring back memories of a time in areas of Kingston, us guys would occasionally be up under the stars, "communicating" about "anything" under the sun/moon. No hold ups, No barking of guns No fear...
__________________________________

Back on Topic; by Britisha: Responses in Italic
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As all can see I joined this board in 2000 and since then many posters here have beaten hup dem gums and gaawn.. been saying what you have just said, and it seems as if we have made no "headway" in dealing with this problem of crime at home...but you are correct, and the more we hear of some progress in Jamaica, in terms of some improvement in our infrastructure, new roads, more access to material things, etc etc the more we hear of the alarming crime statistics...a lot of them rivaling what we read of in North America including Ponzi schemes..
<span style="font-style: italic">What can I say?, Jamaicans are great at "copy-catting" and will stop at nothing to prove that they can out-do the masters at their own crafts, whether good or bad. The problem for us, they always seem to get a kick out of choosing the Bad Stuff, aka "Gang type Activities" in the US, rivaling the Home Town boys. They no longer exist because 'heavy measures' were brought to bear on them... Why do they still exist in Ja?</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">You said it, in a nutshell, the "Us versus Them" mentality, we see it at home and abroad...for a country that sings "One Love" and has the most churches per sq mile; it is a joke/sad commentary when we witness how we treat each other...and den everybody beat dem chest and say "not *i*" annuh meee...point fingah an seh..'ah fi dem fault...' No personal responsibility in many cases; but expecting the country to do for them in all cases.</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">This conjours up "Anancyism" to me. The culture of Bredda Anancy is embedded in our psyche, but why it always seems to influence so many of our leaders? Maybe we should curtail it like we did with Obeah...</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">At the same time it appears that most of us love the status quo or else it could not be allowed to perpetuate for so long; and it seems as if we are doomed for we are still stuck with two worn out political parties that have done their time...</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">It appears that we are doomed because no one or group will step forward to "try a thing" It's like the story of the mice and the cat. they all decide that a Bell on the cat would warn them when he is comming for a meal... "Who will bell the cat"?? is the question the mice are still asking among themselves.</span></div></div>
As you used to say, Walk Good...
__________________________________

It's not where you are from that matters, it's where you are heading.

**britisha** · 05-09-2009, 03:45 PM

Re: The beginning of Kingston's decline

But yuh know Barosa, when mi did juss come aawn 'ere wi used to bi on line till late innah the wee howahs, a gi joke and reminisce...oh yes, mi membah di days when the boys would be up late talking about anything and everything long aftah duppie dem gaawn a dem bed...

Memories...

((Barosa))

The beginning of Kingston's decline

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