UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John Maxw

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Naturally, <span style="font-weight: bold">those standing without, and who have no chance of ever being within, unless the University should lower its academic criteria</span>, would speak as if they envy the many luminaries who have walked the Halls of this notable institution. The use of the phrase Intellectual Ghetto is only one way of denigrating what is really above those who stand without, with no hope of ever being on the inside of any other noteworthy institution.</div></div>

Surely, you jest!

Just to be clear: anyone who never attended the UWI lacked the ability to get in? Is that what you are saying? I can't imagine anyone saying this with a straight face about any truly elite university - because it wouldn't be a smart thing to say. And since we are talking about Perkins here, are you suggesting that he didn't have what it took to get into UWI, hence his 'envy' (your word)? I presume you are a past student of the UWI and in most cases individuals speak with pride about their <span style="font-style: italic">alma mater</span>. But what you said above is the height of flattery and smugness. I should hope your kind of thinking is not a reflection of the type of graduates that institution produces. </div></div> The UWI is hihghly regarded in intelligencia internationally,whether yiu want to believeot or not. I know that it acts a s supervosong institution for the best of ivyleague institution in courses under their ausoices in the jurisdiction of the UWI. The problem is thatit usually onlyaccepts the best 10% of those qualified to attend and as such ther is a lit of disgruntled rergects. It is nottheir fault, but the school is just not large enough.

[bee_bop]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Naturally, <span style="font-weight: bold">those standing without, and who have no chance of ever being within, unless the University should lower its academic criteria</span>, would speak as if they envy the many luminaries who have walked the Halls of this notable institution. The use of the phrase Intellectual Ghetto is only one way of denigrating what is really above those who stand without, with no hope of ever being on the inside of any other noteworthy institution.</div></div>

Surely, you jest!

Just to be clear: anyone who never attended the UWI lacked the ability to get in? Is that what you are saying? I can't imagine anyone saying this with a straight face about any truly elite university - because it wouldn't be a smart thing to say. And since we are talking about Perkins here, are you suggesting that he didn't have what it took to get into UWI, hence his 'envy' (your word)? I presume you are a past student of the UWI and in most cases individuals speak with pride about their <span style="font-style: italic">alma mater</span>. But what you said above is the height of flattery and smugness. I should hope your kind of thinking is not a reflection of the type of graduates that institution produces. </div></div>

<span style="color: #3333FF"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am completely amused that you attempted a response to my post, especially as I was suggesting a reason why certain people would <span style="color: #FF6666">single-out</span> the UWI as an Intellectual Ghetto, as if it were completely different from other Universities of its ilk.

As for, <span style="font-style: italic">flattery and smugness</span>, you probably have not met the <span style="font-style: italic">alma mater</span> of the: University of Cambridge, Princeton, or Collège de Sorbonne, etc. for <span style="text-decoration: underline">real</span> examples of <span style="font-style: italic">self-flattery and smugness</span>.

Regarding Smutty P., I am not impressed with his <span style="font-style: italic">pseudo-intellectualism</span> that he tries to pass-off as inspiring, and perfect in wisdom, especially as he is talking-down to those who have no other alternative but to listen to his drivel.</span></span>

[johnnycakes]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

Hey I have already conceded the UWI has a right...check that a duty to give drunk Maxwell his HD.
Having in concert with John Drunk and his ilk stood by and cheered on while the PNP destroyed the reputation of Eddie Blinds, Motty Perkins, White Jamaicans, International Aid Agencies and countless Jamaicans who dared to live and dream in Jamaica.... it time to say heckuva of job Jhin...err John we win!
[/quote]


Tuff Gong,
You really don't help your argument against John Maxwell by limiting your self to criticising his drinking.

This is similar to the right wing talk show entertainers in Boston who used to attack Hillary Clinton by calling her a fat-assed communist.

You really should post a critique of a Maxwell article or something that might point out his failings in logic to help those of us not very well familiar with either him (or Perkins.)

I'll settle for any links you can provide since personally I find Maxwell to be right on the money in all that I've read by him.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Naturally, <span style="font-weight: bold">those standing without, and who have no chance of ever being within, unless the University should lower its academic criteria</span>, would speak as if they envy the many luminaries who have walked the Halls of this notable institution. The use of the phrase Intellectual Ghetto is only one way of denigrating what is really above those who stand without, with no hope of ever being on the inside of any other noteworthy institution.</div></div>

Surely, you jest!

Just to be clear: anyone who never attended the UWI lacked the ability to get in? Is that what you are saying? I can't imagine anyone saying this with a straight face about any truly elite university - because it wouldn't be a smart thing to say. And since we are talking about Perkins here, are you suggesting that he didn't have what it took to get into UWI, hence his 'envy' (your word)? I presume you are a past student of the UWI and in most cases individuals speak with pride about their <span style="font-style: italic">alma mater</span>. But what you said above is the height of flattery and smugness. I should hope your kind of thinking is not a reflection of the type of graduates that institution produces. </div></div>

<span style="color: #3333FF"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am completely amused that you attempted a response to my post, especially as I was suggesting a reason why certain people would <span style="color: #FF6666">single-out</span> the UWI as an Intellectual Ghetto, as if it were completely different from other Universities of its ilk.

As for, <span style="font-style: italic">flattery and smugness</span>, you probably have not met the <span style="font-style: italic">alma mater</span> of the: University of Cambridge, Princeton, or Collège de Sorbonne, etc. for <span style="text-decoration: underline">real</span> examples of <span style="font-style: italic">self-flattery and smugness</span>.

Regarding Smutty P., I am not impressed with his <span style="font-style: italic">pseudo-intellectualism</span> that he tries to pass-off as inspiring, and perfect in wisdom<span style="font-weight: bold"></span>, especially as he is talking-down to those who have no other alternative but to listen to his drivel.</span></span> </div></div>

You may be proving my point.

You and Perkins have something in common: you both like to use Lord Acton's famous dictum. I'm not sure that Perkins would care what you thought of him anyway. &quot;Psuedo-intellectualism&quot; is the frequent cry of his harshest critics, but something which rings hollow when one considers the brand of &quot;intellectualism&quot; they find to their liking.

As to pride in ones <span style="font-style: italic">alma mater</span>, I can understand this to a certain degree. I beam with pride about my own - a fine and highly regarded one globally - but my pride is tempered with the fact that I have met many individuals personally, and know of countless others, who attended lesser known institutions who are no less talented, and are <span style="font-weight: bold">at least</span> as bright as those coming from schools described as 'elite.' I have a hearty respect for meritocracy, so, at the end of the day, it is the quality of one's intellect that matters; everything else is secondary.

[bee_bop]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<span style="color: #3333FF"><span style="font-weight: bold">To be frank with you, I couldn't care less about any <span style="font-style: italic">Lord Acton</span>, or whatever, my use of the term pseudo-intellectual is with regard to its literal meaning, i.e. false-intellectualism, simple as that

I was not puffing up my pride, or anyone else's for that matter, when I tried to show that UWI is no more of an <span style="font-style: italic">intellectual ghetto</span> than any other highly-rated University. The use of the term <span style="font-style: italic">intellectual ghetto</span> is derogatory, in this context, and was meant to unfairly malign out of jealousy, and ignorance, that was my simple point.

FYI: Yes I graduated from UWI, with an honours degree, and I also graduated from another University with another honours degree, but that was not my point, or intended argument.

I suppose this argument has been <span style="font-style: italic">squeezed</span> till it is now dry, so I will move on from henceforth...</span></span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff Gong,
You really don't help your argument against John Maxwell by limiting your self to criticising his drinking. </div></div>

I didn't, besides being a drunken lout, I mentioned his calling for the destruction of a community in Jamaica, his leading of or his presence at march on a media house which was razed and a man tongue was cut out of live body, his unwarranted and lying attacks on other journalists, all of which happened in Jamaica while I was there and present.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Naturally, those standing without, and who have no chance of ever being within, unless the University should lower its academic criteria, would speak as if they envy the many....</div></div>Naturally?
What an idiotic assertion we only criticized because we could not get in and the UWI refused to lower its standards?
It is an intellectual ghetto <span style="font-style: italic">(specifically the department of Social Sciences)</span> for what it has produced and what it has encouraged waste matters such as John Maxwell, Rex Nettleford, Dr. Orville Taylor, Dr. Cooper and the latest sign of madness Dwight “Tweety Bird” Nelson all of whom have been closely linked to the destructive governments that we have had over the last 30 years and absolutely no reckoning or clues to what is the problem nor what and where to find solutions to problems facing Jamaica.

[iches]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

Mutty...I think this as reached the stage for your appearance...to let loose, and give me some laughts.

Come on in Mutty!!!

[iches]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

Jamaica Observer

[Tuff Gong]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iches</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mutty...I think this as reached the stage for your appearance...to let loose, and give me some laughts.

Come on in Mutty!!! </div></div>
How has this become a fight between John Maxwell and Motty Perkins?
I know John Maxwell personally, I lived near where the guy work, he was the Chief propagandist for the Comrades in the 70s and our MP Dr. D. K. Duncan was Minister of Mobilization and Party Secretary, which brought him into close contact with the PNP propaganda outfits.

On the other hand I have net met Mr. Perkins and the only interactions I have had with him was listening to his shows in Jamaica and then writing him a few letters when I started listening to his shows online about three years ago. This is long after the 70s and long after my impression was formed about John Maxwell.
In fact it was not for the John Maxwell outtaview by D. Allen (which I posted here first online) and the John Maxwell column which I clip and save and used to post here religiously, I would not have known that John Maxwell and Motty Perkins had ever been that close at one time.

[bee_bop]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

Plastic said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Naturally, those standing without, and who have no chance of ever being within, unless the University should lower its academic criteria, would speak as if they envy the many....</div></div>Naturally?
What an idiotic assertion we only criticized because we could not get in and the UWI refused to lower its standards?
It is an intellectual ghetto <span style="font-style: italic">(specifically the department of Social Sciences)</span> for what it has produced and what it has encouraged waste matters such as John Maxwell, Rex Nettleford, Dr. Orville Taylor, Dr. Cooper and the latest sign of madness Dwight “Tweety Bird” Nelson all of whom have been closely linked to the destructive governments that we have had over the last 30 years and absolutely no reckoning or clues to what is the problem nor what and where to find solutions to problems facing Jamaica.
</div></div>

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">A lot of those people carry far more respectability than <span style="font-size: 8pt"><span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span></span> will ever have. These are people whose achievements and contributions to society, in their chosen endeavours, would be recognized internationally as highly respectable. Don't be surprised if one, or more, of them is chosen for the Society of Knights, not that they need it, but it is within their reach...

To add some enlightenment, the UWI is not a Jamaican University, it is a regional one, with campuses all over the anglophone Caribbean. It compares favourably with Ivy League Universities in the United States, or other highly rated institutions in either; Canada, or the United Kingdom (it was affiliated with the University of London, of which it was a College).

The Mona campus has problems that are reflective of the wider Jamaican society, and the times we live in, just as any other University in the world.

Jamaica's failures are not the result of any one group of people, but there is one set who are dead-set on its failure, such as those who would go to Miami and let everyone there think &quot;<span style="font-style: italic">Communism was taking over Jamaica, and that no one was to invest in this imminent communist island....</span>

I don't have to go back into the <span style="font-style: italic">brown bag</span> criteria for employing people at a certain level, the required use of the <span style="font-style: italic">back entry</span> (which my father would remember), the emptied hotel pool because a human body with the wrong skin complexion dived into it... and all the other means used to repress coloured people in Jamaica&quot; I suppose, to you all these were someone's wild fantasies</span></span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">A lot of those people carry far more respectability than <span style="font-size: 8pt"><span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span></span> will ever have.</span></span></div></div>

I am pretty sure <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">crooks and liars</span> who run countries possess the means to hide their dirty deeds and to convince folks that they are as lily white as the driven snow.
All of the folks that I have named, including Robert Buddan and Barry Chevannes (who I mistakenly left out), have been advisors to PNP Regimes, not one of them have ever come out against the destructive policies of the PNP.

So they are a solid cabal, involved in almost every aspect of Jamaican life, they are able to manufacture respect and to damn any critic of their destructive output. Naturally not everyone will be <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">lemmings</span> and follow these clowns over the hill.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To add some enlightenment, the UWI is not a Jamaican University, it is a regional one, with campuses all over the anglophone Caribbean. <span style="font-weight: bold">It compares favourably with Ivy League Universities in the United States, or other highly rated institutions in either; Canada, or the United Kingdom (it was affiliated with the University of London, of which it was a College).</span>[/b][/color] </div></div>

Ok, we're now in the realm of hyperbole. You will say that, and people who don't know otherwise may believe you. You have this need to defend the UWI, and if it is a great institution, as its graduates claim it is, then it's accomplishments should attest to that fact.

[bee_bop]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To add some enlightenment, the UWI is not a Jamaican University, it is a regional one, with campuses all over the anglophone Caribbean. <span style="font-weight: bold">It compares favourably with Ivy League Universities in the United States, or other highly rated institutions in either; Canada, or the United Kingdom (it was affiliated with the University of London, of which it was a College).</span>[/b][/color] </div></div>

Ok, we're now in the realm of hyperbole. You will say that, and people who don't know otherwise may believe you. You have this need to defend the UWI, and if it is a great institution, as its graduates claim it is, then it's accomplishments should attest to that fact. </div></div>

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">As in that movie about a white guy who joins a white supremacist gang, and shoots a black girl, as a sniper, and starring the former rapper Ice Cube, it was stated something like this, &quot;University culture is a microcosm of the wider society.&quot;

Students at institutions as UWI tend to be at the forefront of social issues, even in France there are serious disturbances that surround University students and their protests. The U.S. has had, and still experiences from time to time, these social actions (as an eg. anti-war protests, etc.). South Korea, is another good example. There have been revolutions started on University Campuses. <span style="color: #CC0000">UWI would <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">pale</span></span> in comparison to these circumstances.</span>

I am not defending Mona Campus either, whose conditions would reflect those of the surrounding communities (as a microcosm), just as much as Cave Hill, or St. Augustine, Campuses. To call the UWI, as a whole, an <span style="font-style: italic">intellectual ghetto</span>, makes no sensible point, and I think it stems from jealousy. <span style="color: #33FF33">I can't even see <span style="font-size: 8pt">your point</span> in bringing up this issue over and over again...unless you fall into the previously mentioned category.</span> As for achievement, I don't know where you have been, but from your ignorance, obviously vary far away from any of UWI's Campuses.</span></span>

[johnnycakes]

Re: UWI awarding honorary degree to Observer columnist John

Littleman,
While there are often protests and considerable activism in the student bodies at U.S. colleges there are far too many academics who are apologists and defenders of U.S. foreign policy. They often talk about the tactics and other side issues of various U.S. atrocities such as the Vietnam Invasion rather than come out, as they should as academics, with the facts. There were very few academics back in the 60's and 70's who told the truth that the U.S. was trying to impose the government (dictatorship) and the economy (capitalist) that THEY wanted and contrary to the wishes of the Vietnamese people.

Academicians and universities in general are more liberal than radical and in general toe the official government line when it comes to controversial (that is outright immoral ) U..S. foreign policy issues.

They are far less independent than one would think they'd be.